Duke3D & SW - Early/Alpha/Beta/Gold Material

Followed this thread in duke4.net and thought it's worth sharing here too. Can't wait to see more of the 1995 Duke3d beta and the lost levels, particularly E2L8. Your thoughts?

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Nice, but if he's not going to actually release these builds and instead just tease us with the odd resource, he can go fuck himself.

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Wow... I never knew that the old 3D Realms logo was red?

EDIT: Some Answers.

Technician said:

But if he's not going to actually release these builds and instead just tease us with the odd resource, he can go fuck himself.


Mate, It's gonna be those faggots called ZeniMax.

Chu said:

Now we wait.


And wait, and wait, and wait.

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What interests me most, and I knew about this since an early 3D Realms forums thread, 3D Realms had a few early Doom builds we may not have, and now interceptor has them.

Sadly, now that Carmack is gone, I doubt ZeniMax Media will ever allow them to be released.

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It would be nice if I didn't have to wade through minutes and minutes of worthless banter to find the interesting parts. Seriously, that was annoying.

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Technician said:

Nice, but if he's not going to actually release these builds and instead just tease us with the odd resource, he can go fuck himself.


I don't think TX would do that to everyone, but I'm getting that vibe too. Pool their attention to one thing and release it. They are sort of jumping around.

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Mancubus II said:

I saw a strife directory in there...

Also a Wolfenstein 3D and Wolfenstain part II (RotT). I'd kill for those, but would id allow their release. And do they (interceptor) even care enough to look into getting permission.

Maybe we should all contact TX and see if we can do anything to rise our chances of getting these id betas.

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Mancubus II said:

I saw a strife directory in there...

Woah.

Lots of interesting things in there. I'd certainly love to poke around that folder.

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Definitely looks good - I see Blood and Duke Nukem II (??). Doom looks interesting.

Technician: let's do that. I'll ask him on Duke4 directly or we could all pool together and do it?

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Woah. Tons of potentially awesome stuff. I really hope it gets leaked, especially the Doom and Strife stuff. Fuck Zenimax and their sharks, I want this stuff!

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Nice! I should start checking Duke 4 more often again and yeah I certainly can't wait to get my hands on all of this, I love beta material.

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Chu said:

Technician: let's do that. I'll ask him on Duke4 directly or we could all pool together and do it?

Yeah go ahead. Tell him the Doom community is interested and if he wants we can maybe contact Willits or something. They are releasing these Duke betas to regain awareness for their newly acquired franchise, so they probably don't want to put forth the effort.

We don't care if they are in a playable state, the Doom community is more than capable of dealing with that. And frankly, I'd want an unmolested game file. They need not put any effort forth other than zipping and uploading.

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Sodaholic said:

I really hope it gets leaked, especially the Doom and Strife stuff. Fuck Zenimax and their sharks, I want this stuff!

^This.

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Technician said:

Yeah go ahead. Tell him the Doom community is interested and if he wants we can maybe contact Willits or something. They are releasing these Duke betas to regain awareness for their newly acquired franchise, so they probably don't want to put forth the effort.

We don't care if they are in a playable state, the Doom community is more than capable of dealing with that. And frankly, I'd want an unmolested game file. They need not put any effort forth other than zipping and uploading.


Sent Frederik our request on Facebook.

Now we wait.

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Technician said:

Yeah go ahead. Tell him the Doom community is interested and if he wants we can maybe contact Willits or something.

Zenimax and current-day id give me bad vibes. Sure it's not better to do it under the table to keep a low profile? I think it's better to do it under questionable ethics rather than risk a "no" answer and draw attention to it, causing the files to never be distributed out of fear of warned retaliation. Even Zenimax gets pissed later on, there's not much they can do to remove the files from circulation once they've had a chance to root themselves in various archives, be it websites or various people's hard-drives.

And yes, unmolested is better, usable in its current state or not.

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Yes, but you must remember that Frederik will be taking the chance by releasing it, not us - and it could land him and his newly acquired company in even more trouble than they already are in. I would rather not chance it, seriously.

He's doing good by releasing what he can regardless, so let's not fuck it up.

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Sodaholic said:

Zenimax and current-day id give me bad vibes. Sure it's not better to do it under the table to keep a low profile? I think it's better to do it under questionable ethics rather than risk a "no" answer and draw attention to it, causing the files to never be distributed out of fear of warned retaliation. Even Zenimax gets pissed later on, there's not much they can do to remove the files from circulation once they've had a chance to root themselves in various archives, be it websites or various people's hard-drives.

And yes, unmolested is better, usable in its current state or not.

Fred wouldn't even dream of risking a possible cease and desist order from another company. Unless he gets the go ahead, he'd never release another's intellectual property without stated permission. No game company is stupid enough.

3D Realms made the betas existence public for ten years and they never allowed any of it to be released. I'm glad they are releasing something, even if it's an IP not related to our fan base.

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True. I haven't really been paying much attention (I really should though), I falsely assumed this Frederik guy was just some individual and not part of a company.

I just really, really hope that Zenimax isn't so tight-assed as to say no. I hope that the Doom betas in there are something between 0.5 and PRB, or that if it's post-PRB that it's only shareware content. The only thing that could actually harm their bottom line is if it's a full version of the near-final game.

I wonder if Zenimax has a say in anything Strife related, aside from the codebase?

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Sodaholic said:
I wonder if Zenimax has a say in anything Strife related, aside from the codebase?


From what I gather the Strife stuff (trademarks, etc) faded away and nobody is sure of its legal status anymore. Regardless though I don't think Zenimax would be involved in something that isn't directly under their wing.

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Some member of the Duke4 forum stated that Strife is abandonware and that was the final post about about it. I don't want to mention too much more just in case they actually believe that. If they knew the Strife IP may still belong to another studio/individual they may simply refuse the matter any further.

The Doom and Wolfenstein betas are pretty clear cut and id has, in the past, been very good about these sort of things. So lets hope Willits and the few other old-tier members have some pull and care enough to put forth the effort. Maybe they don't have to go to Zenimax for permission. We'll hope.

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Technician said:
The Doom and Wolfenstein betas are pretty clear cut and id has, in the past, been very good about these sort of things. So lets hope Willits and the few other old-tier members have some pull and care enough to put forth the effort. Maybe they don't have to go to Zenimax for permission. We'll hope.


Still waiting on that message. I've sent it to him and TX on Duke4, as well.

Also, I don't believe Abandonware will work in the case of Strife (even though everyone knows that it's pretty much vacant) - unless 3DR knows it's not anyone's for sure, they won't release it. Too risky.

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If Willits in particular has any legal say in it and he approves, he'll be redeemed in my eyes, though I still strongly disagree with many of his opinions. Of course, he probably doesn't care if some nobody "approves" of him or not. :P

We shouldn't necessarily assume Frederik is not reading this particular thread. Reagardless, he could do his own research and discover Strife's messy situation. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that any of the Doom and related stuff gets released. This is too good to pass up.

In the highly unlikely event that any id or Zenimax guys are reading this: I beg you! As Technician notes, there's a precedent set by the old-guard of id to allow this kind of thing to happen. Take into consideration of how much/little harm it could do, and the potential PR benefits.

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We won't see the Blood stuff, either. I doubt Time Warner gives a fuck. They won't even answer requests for the source code.

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This is interesting. DN3D was my favourite game for a few years, and the first where I ever tried out interesting combinations of map effects.

Time Warner owns Blood? That sucks.

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Aliotroph? said:

Time Warner owns Blood? That sucks.

They bought Monolith Productions about ten years ago.

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I am extremely interested in unreleased game builds (I enjoy looking into the Half Life Betas the most) because all of the cut content and unfinished things really grab my interest, I am always looking at things that were cut and wondering how it could have been or how it worked (One thing that I really enjoy is cut/reworked enemies and other AI's, something about them really interests me).

I personally hope that these builds are released to the public so we can dive into them and see what didn't make the cut or how different everything is but it may all be fruitless due to most companies being epically anal about this sort of thing.

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Maybe we could talk to Carmack to convince the guys at Id/Zenimax? I know he's not there anymore but he likely still has some connections. It doesn't seem like a big thing to ask.

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