Death of the Star Wars EU

Shaviro said:

Then we have the Obi-Wan vs. Grievous fight. Obi-wan for some reason managed to find the biggest, loudest most idiotic animal on the planet. A huge lizard-bird thing. He uses this to sneak up on Grievous (wtf?). He then jumps down in the middle of a billion battle-droids and purposely alerts everyone. Was the addition of a billion droids the idea of someone in "post production"? Why don't they just shoot him? Why does Obi-Wan expect them not to? Then Grievous decides to fight Obi-Wan and he performs this very impressive quadruple flurry of lightsabers just in front of Obi-Wan, but he doesn't even flinch. It's almost as if Grievous was never there. Wait a minute.

Obi Wan doesn't expect the battle droids to shoot him because he saw the Jedi Jack Clone Wars cartoons and knows that battle droids never shoot when they aren't assured to miss.

There's a scene in which the droids have some idiotic giant piston stomper machine that makes Mace Windu lose his lightsaber. He's then completely surrounded by a dense mass of eleventy gazillions droids. They all threateningly raise their weapons very, very slowly, making lots of weapon sounds. They super-slowly take aim. Then they stop moving while Windu punches them all to destruction. They do not fire a single shot.

Pretty much all of the SW prequel design goes like this. What would look cool, rather than what could make sense. The original trilogy has its share of ham and cheese, but it tried to make the setting something lived in. Spaceships have scratches and dirt, ordinary people live ordinary lives (Owen & Beru before they buy the farm), etc. It's not the super clean and sterile sci-fi universe that other series had at the time, so it looks believable despite all the nonsense going on. But in the prequels, this is all abandoned in favor of sleek zeerusty chrome designs and CGIs everywhere. The trade federation droids do not attack because they're just here to be demolished by cool jedi maneuvers, not to be a threat. The badguys use stupid weapons like a giant flying piston because that was someone's idea of cool. Stuff that worked in the OT gets reused in the PT without any understanding about why it worked in the OT: Obi Wan rides a garish lizard because Luke and Han rode tauntauns; Grievous coughs and wheezes because Vader breathed heavily.

Spot on.

There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the universe and its design. Like in Episode 2 for instance, when a huge star destroyer look-alike (Acclamator I think) has LANDED and clonetroopers are boarding this GIGANTIC ramp. That does not look good. Anyone who has tried to create a level for Doom or anything else, knows that digital design like this looks stupid when taken too far or repeated too much. The scale you can do without losing credibility is actually surprisingly humble. I guess we needed to see stormtroopers and star destroyers to be reminded that it's star wars though, huh? And fucktard yoda (as opposed to Yoda the wise of the OT) and gang are conveniently standing nearby. "Begun the clone wars have." Yes, you started it. Idiot.

Later on in Episode 3 we see a Corellian Corvette fly around in atmosphere and manouver as if it were a winged craft. Just because your computer can make it go all fancy like doesn't mean it's right or looks good. And then of course it lands on the ridiculous PT style pencil shaped landing gear. The prequel trilogy should have been named "Everything lands".

Then we have something like Obi-Wan's ship needing a ring shaped device to go to hyperspace. I'm betting this was thought up in the computer lab after they had shot the movie. What a waste of potentially awesome physically logical plot progression. Instead of Obi-Wan fucking about on Geonosis and clumsily get caught, they could have had someone destroy or relocate the hyperspace ring. Tadaa. Instead of Obi-Wan being a complete idiot and use their goto move of having droids come in and suddenly pose a threat, they could have exploited a weakness and set a trap that *made sense*. I guess that's what happens when you disconnect the visual design of the movie from everything else.

Shaviro said:

I still have no idea who fucking Padme is. Other than the most boring and soul-less character ever created.

Padme is truly the worst. Portman is a great actress and she could've made Padme at least a decent partner to McGregor's charming Obi-Wan. The reason why Padme is so painfully unbelievable, flat and boring is that her character traits and her entire behaviour is dictated by what she's wearing at the moment. She's a noble and august queen who will bow her head if it's good for Naboo, or a gutsy headstrong Leia-like rebel who won't back down from a good fight, or a naive blushing maid ready to be swept off her feet by Anakin and elope, or an emotionally torn faithful housewife afraid of the evils of big politics, but she never combines aspects of those wildly different personas. They could all be different characters played by different actresses. Lucas likes to put his girls into a variety of costumes, but playing dress up with characters was a step too far (on the edge of a cliff).

That's a really nice observation. I never thought of that.
She is also misplaced as I see it. She should have been the physical representation of the seduction of the dark side. Say instead she had been a Mara Jade or Admiral Daala (uh oh, going EU, sorry!) kind of person on the outside, but soft on the inside. She should have been Palpatine's right hand, without being an actual sith (ugh). She should have helped Anakin (and the audience. We need to be seduced as well or the turn will never(!) be believable) see just how badly the republic and the jedi were doing and how it was time for a strong leader to temporarily step in and take control. Then of course at the end, Anakin will have to choose between Obi-Wan and her. She dies of course, futher fueling his rage and turn. That's how I would write her anyway. Also, I'd give her a real name instead of something Lucas' daughter made up.

I keep feeling the need to chip in here but every point I would make is already being made (mainly by Shaviro).


Not sure why you're all being so hard on Padme though. She was a strong independent female character who fought against injustice, betrayal and oppression until her final breath. She didn't just give up and die for no real reason whatsoever. Owait...

(good points dew)

Heh, you know, now I think I'm just gonna have to track down a copy of the old Clone Wars cartoon so I can watch it tonight. Oh, and I do like the fact that the cartoon actually gave a reason for General Grievous coughing and wheezing like he was in the movie. As he was making his escape with Palpatine from Coruscant, Mace Windu Force-crushed his torso. Of course, 90% of the movie-going public hadn't seen the cartoon, so in the context of the movie, it made no damn sense. I do like, however, that the cartoon actually made an attempt to justify that.

Shaviro said:

The EU sucks and I don't just mean the European Union.

(rant..)

Bottom line, fuck the EU.

Enjay said:

Well said. I agree with everything in that post.

I live in the European Union, which makes it the most important part of the world and you will obey it and suck its feet! You fat, burger eating, silly cowboy hat and usa flag t-shirt wearing (and other stereotypes) americans.

And the SW stuff? Well, both canon and legends are just made up BS and nothing of it is real.. so what is the deal?

geekmarine said:

Heh, you know, now I think I'm just gonna have to track down a copy of the old Clone Wars cartoon so I can watch it tonight. Oh, and I do like the fact that the cartoon actually gave a reason for General Grievous coughing and wheezing like he was in the movie. As he was making his escape with Palpatine from Coruscant, Mace Windu Force-crushed his torso. Of course, 90% of the movie-going public hadn't seen the cartoon, so in the context of the movie, it made no damn sense. I do like, however, that the cartoon actually made an attempt to justify that.

It was kind of a nice nod to the idea that he also wasn't going to be seen doing any of the crazy shit he did during the cartoon in the movie. Granted, they turned him back into a slow and incompetent bruiser for the newer cartoon, so whatevs. I think there was maybe one episode near the end where he actually pulled something off, killing a bunch of witches or something. Otherwise they just let the Blue Man Group Bounty Hunter do all the work and what not.

Clonehunter said:

Otherwise they just let the Blue Man Group Bounty Hunter do all the work and what not.

You mean Cad Bane?

i recall seeing that Clone Wars cartoon (that wasn't CGI and animated), but i don't recall much of it. apparently every episode were only 5 minutes long in it?

Sokoro said:

I live in the European Union, which makes it the most important part of the world and you will obey it and suck its feet! You fat, burger eating, silly cowboy hat and usa flag t-shirt wearing (and other stereotypes) americans.

And the SW stuff? Well, both canon and legends are just made up BS and nothing of it is real.. so what is the deal?

So is this the post that got you custom titled?

Doomhuntress said:

i recall seeing that Clone Wars cartoon (that wasn't CGI and animated), but i don't recall much of it. apparently every episode were only 5 minutes long in it?

Pretty much. The DVDs though managed to sum the episodes into a fairly well strung together movie, though.

You mean my childhood isn't real anymore?

:(

If I recall correctly, the original non-CGI Clone Wars cartoons were made short so they could be aired on Cartoon Network between shows, kinda like extended commercials. The later episodes became longer, though, eventually running the length of an typical cartoon show (22 minutes or so).

Some good points based on that prequel hate. Warning, he decides to advertise his store at the end. At least his editorials are not as obnoxious as his actual reviews.

Technician said:

So is this the post that got you custom titled?

Yeah, self-centered aspergers who like to express every of their opinions are not so popular in the world.

Also, custom titles are overrated :(

Ah the EU means expanded universe... He still attacked European Union anyway.

Clonehunter said:
...Aunt Beru and Uncle Own are both still dead...

Actually, a "domestic disturbance" is what got them killed. See for yourselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO6rqAJ3mGc

Sokoro said:

Yeah, self-centered aspergers who like to express every of their opinions are not so popular in the world.

At least you admit to being retarded. Thats a first step to successful therapy. Although I'm worried that the only one which would work on you would be applicable... posthumously. You know, by getting buried six feet under.

j4rio said:

At least you admit to being retarded. Thats a first step to successful therapy. Although I'm worried that the only one which would work on you would be applicable... posthumously. You know, by getting buried six feet under.

See Sokoro, this is how you do it.

I can learn from this guy, too.

hmm, i'm kind of excited about actually watching this Clone Wars cartoon now (the old one is called Star Wars: Clone Wars, the new ones are called Star Wars: THE Clone Wars, i found out.) it was apparently written and directed by the same guy who made Dexter's Laboratory, among other things.

A good deal of the EU never was strictly canon, anyway. There was a complicated heirarchy of what was considered canon, which listed criteria by which to judge games, novels, comics, shows, and movies. Being able to throw that away and just consider all of the EU as "legends," in the way that there are non-canon stories in comic books, is actually a relief to me.

j4rio said:

At least you admit to being retarded. Thats a first step to successful therapy. Although I'm worried that the only one which would work on you would be applicable... posthumously. You know, by getting buried six feet under.

Stop trolling and finish your maps Essel.

Mogul said:

A good deal of the EU never was strictly canon, anyway. There was a complicated heirarchy of what was considered canon, which listed criteria by which to judge games, novels, comics, shows, and movies. Being able to throw that away and just consider all of the EU as "legends," in the way that there are non-canon stories in comic books, is actually a relief to me.

Star Wars cannon is a lot like the Hadith.

I must say that I am really not liking the idea of the clone wars cartoon being considered cannon. I have watched probably the first 3 or 4 seasons, and while I did enjoy the show more then I thought I would I found some of the episodes to be so fucking stupid that the thought of them being considered actual star war cannon makes me cringe. Like that time where the droids tried to conspire with the Gungans to attack the republic:

Yup, this is cannon now.

I barely even consider Return of the Jedi canon. The lighter tone and those goddamn ewoks ruin it for me, as well as the fact that the plot was radically different than originally intended. I would've liked Revenge of the Jedi better. "I changed the title because Jedis don't seek revenge," says George. Well, maybe Luke wasn't such a good guy after all? What's wrong with that? Too dark?

Sodaholic said:

I barely even consider Return of the Jedi canon. The lighter tone and those goddamn ewoks ruin it for me, as well as the fact that the plot was radically different than originally intended. I would've liked Revenge of the Jedi better. "I changed the title because Jedis don't seek revenge," says George. Well, maybe Luke wasn't such a good guy after all? What's wrong with that? Too dark?

Yeah RotJ was a very weak finally, most likely diluted down by George. At least the fight between Luke and Darth remained very serious, threatening, and a worthy conclusion to both Luke's and Anakin's archs. The sibling thing was just so out of left field even Fisher couldn't perform seriously in that scene.

Gary Kurtz describes a much more appropriate third film. I wish George didn't ask him to leave. At least we didn't get two death stars.

Clonehunter said:

Pretty much. The DVDs though managed to sum the episodes into a fairly well strung together movie, though.

Although I did find with the first DVD that stringing everything together made it a bit hectic. It was a non-stop, high octane battle scene (in various locations) for almost the entire DVD. That sounds like it should be cool but I found it a bit wearying after a while. The second one had more variation in pacing and so was more easily watchable. In saying that, I prefer the first one.

They should make Yoda Chronicles canon too. It's amazing.

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