Carmack accused of stealing Oculus Rift tech

We all know Carmack's a thief. Super Mario 3 on PC. Claiming he made the only side scrolling technology for PC, but some Batman game had it before he did. Next thing you know, he won't have created the first 3D tech in PC history.

Share this post


Link to post

Heh, I remember people being excited of id's being bought by Zenimax (and Bethesda). Something about id's games growing in quality from mindless shooters to large shooter-RPGs.

Share this post


Link to post
printz said:

Heh, I remember people being excited of id's being bought by Zenimax (and Bethesda). Something about id's games growing in quality from mindless shooters to large shooter-RPGs.


I'm all for that.

Anyway, here's Oculus Rift for Chickens to experience free range when they're stuck at farms >> http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/15/an-oculus-rift-for-chickens-gives-animals-the-freedom-to-roam-without-the-roaming/

Share this post


Link to post
fraggle said:


If that review is true... So he wanted to learn from people that did stuff 20 years ago that are still playing catchup to Half Life 2 episode 2. I feel bad for the HR department about the jokes, that would be a job you can't fix if an entire company is doing it.

Plenty of companies just hire students, they want lower pay and they're up to date with current trends. Basically they become lambs. Teach our entire company what's new and current so we don't have to pay for refresher courses.

I assume 'the entire tech team' is just John Carmack? Unless he funneled employees over to Oculus. That would actually be grounds for a 'mole' lawsuit. But hey if your company fence gets broken, all the sheep will wander to greener pastures. Unless you have the greenest pasture.

150 devs sounds bad, but I assumed you go from 150 to 50 as the game gets closer to completion, you don't need artists. Then he mentions... they weren't artists, that they hired outside artists. Supposedly it took 50 people to make X-Box games, 200 to make modern Final Fantasy games and 500 to make Call of Duty games >> http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Ausir/It_takes_500_people_to_make_Call_of_Duty

He says:
'The non-stop reboots and changes of direction: Every 4 months or so, they tell us that the current direction is all wrong for doom, and will re-boot most, if not all, of the game. This means that for over 2 years of work, there is no game to show, beyond 1 or 2 blockout levels and numerous prototypes.'

I differ to my idea that no game should take more than 2 years unless its open world. Skyrim was made by less than 100 people in under 3 years >> http://www.edge-online.com/features/gdc-2012-how-bethesda-made-skyrim/ 8 level designers making 300 dungeons. This is probably because there are simple compartments to connect, then add clutter. Instead of hand making every wall, ceiling and floor.

Time to go review clients I've been pimped out to in the past.

Share this post


Link to post

Is it me, or is Doom 4's development cycle peculiarly similar to Duke Nukem Forever's development cycle, which has recently been revealed by a former developer?

I just hope that id Software actually have something to show since they promised beta access for Wolfenstein pre-orders. I didn't pre-order the game, but I just hope that soon we will see SOMETHING. Make it 5 screenshots or 3 minutes of gameplay, just anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Patrol1985 said:

Is it me, or is Doom 4's development cycle peculiarly similar to Duke Nukem Forever's development cycle, which has recently been revealed by a former developer?

I just hope that id Software actually have something to show since they promised beta access for Wolfenstein pre-orders. I didn't pre-order the game, but I just hope that soon we will see SOMETHING. Make it 5 screenshots or 3 minutes of gameplay, just anything.


You're not the first to compare Doom 4 to Duke 4. Just because there's a promise of a Doom 4 beta doesn't mean it will be here if ever.

Share this post


Link to post
geo said:

You're not the first to compare Doom 4 to Duke 4.


Never claimed to be, it was just a figure of speech. Don't kill my hopes though! I want Doom 4 to come out :D

Share this post


Link to post
Patrol1985 said:

Is it me, or is Doom 4's development cycle peculiarly similar to Duke Nukem Forever's development cycle, which has recently been revealed by a former developer?

This was my exact thought as well. I'm not convinced the people who preordered the new Wolfenstein are ever going to get that beta access they were promised: I was skeptical when I even saw it advertised,

Share this post


Link to post

I would be glad if Doom 4 appeared before 2020, at the rate id is going. I'm not even particularly anxious. I think it would be ok if they never even made a 4th title.

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe id will close its doors and Doom will end up like the original Wolfenstein.

And the eternal cycle shall begin anew.

Share this post


Link to post
Jaxxoon R said:

Maybe id will close its doors and Doom will end up like the original Wolfenstein.

And the eternal cycle shall begin anew.

Is that post a parody on the "eternal cycle" of Doom 4 wish posts? That it will be like Wolf or Doom 2?

Share this post


Link to post

Just joking about how DOOM 1-3/4, 64, and Final could end up like Castle Wolfenstein and Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, only for some inspired [MUSIC]-heads and a bald dude to resurrect it into a completely different genre.

That's if Zenimax didn't sit on the rights for all eternity in that situation.

Share this post


Link to post

What if the courts agrees with Zenimax? They'll just get compensation from FB and Carmack will continue to work on the Rift. What else? Dont see any trouble here.

Share this post


Link to post

"The Oculus prospectus also included a “product roadmap” that represented that ZeniMax’s franchises “DOOM 3: BFG Edition” and “Skyrim” would be made to work with the Rift. ZeniMax had no such agreement with Oculus."


Goodness, they really fucked themselves there. This IS pretty damning.. Is it morally right that ZeniMax take so much credit for the Rift? Probably not. Did they stretch the truth a bit when saying the Rift would have been "impossible" without ZeniMax's 'confidential know-how'? Quite possible. Did Oculus shoot themselves in the foot by using copyrighted material that isn't theirs? Most certainly.

The question I now have is, how much are they seeking in compensation?

Share this post


Link to post

Did they USE copyrighted material or did they PLAN to use it? I'm not sure I fully get it.

Share this post


Link to post

From what I gather, it was shown in both public videos and in gaming conferences. Even just using logos/copyrighted names without any game footage would cross this line I believe. An unfortunate mistake on their behalf..

Share this post


Link to post

Carmack claims to have written "0 lines of code" used in Oculus when under Zenimax's contract... I don't know what to think anymore.

Share this post


Link to post

Yikes, this isn't good. Skimming through it, and it appears that Zenimax actually has a case here.

What made Carmack think that being bought was a good idea? For the longest time leading up to the Zenimax buyout, he opposed being bought for this very reason. So he ignored his conscience and did it anyway because the studio was taking too long to do anything, and now it's come back to bite him on the ass. Hell, it's partially his fault anyway for the nasty situation id got into that would require a safety net. "Oh, let's do megatextures at any cost!" It's just baked texture variation with too much overhead, with compression and low resolution to compensate. The same effect can be done with some simple real-time blending, look at how you can paint different textures on terrain in Unreal.

This is just great. Carmack screwed id over with bad project direction and management, as well as going against his own principles to salvage the mess he himself created. Now Zenimax has the rights to all their stuff and who knows how they might abuse it.

I've kinda been thinking this before, but it's never been so clear to me until now.

Share this post


Link to post
Linguica said:

The civil complaint was filed and it's quite damning in my opinion. But what do I know, I'm just a lawyer.

Damning it may be, but it's told from ZeniMax's point of view, of course it's biased.

Share this post


Link to post
Patrol1985 said:

Carmack claims to have written "0 lines of code" used in Oculus when under Zenimax's contract... I don't know what to think anymore.

I believe Carmack. ZeniMax has scoured every little fragment of data they have, up and down, to compile just enough bits and pieces to incriminate him anyway. When people have dollar signs in their eyes, they'll go to great lengths.

I hope they have a really solid defense, they're going to need it at this point. Despite a few business mistakes in recent years, Carmack is the godfather of 3D gaming and innovation.. I hope they don't screw him too hard. Greedy bastards.

Share this post


Link to post
Patrol1985 said:

Carmack claims to have written "0 lines of code" used in Oculus when under Zenimax's contract... I don't know what to think anymore.

Actually Carmack claims Oculus Rift "uses" no code he wrote at Zenimax, which I am sure is true today, but it's silly to claim it never did use any code he wrote, when he has openly stated that he wrote a ton of code for it when it was in the early stages.

Share this post


Link to post

Which essentially makes him guilty :(

It's as if I stole a million dollars, then invested it wisely, made 10 million dollars and gave the original million back... it doesn't change the fact that I stole a million dollars in the first place :/

I hope Zenimax loses this one. Carmack has always been THE 3D programmer in my mind.

Share this post


Link to post

Why in the hell would a guy like Carmack ever sign a contract stating everything he writes/thinks of/emails somebody about in a given place belongs to somebody else, and then violate that contract. He's supposed to be smarter than that.

Hopefully he was smarter than that, and most if not all of the stuff in ZeniMax's claims can be demonstrated as bullshit.

The most annoying part of reading through the entire thing is that, legality aside, you can replace every instance of the word "ZeniMax" with "John Carmack."

ZeniMax had nothing on VR and they know it. It was Carmack who had all the technological know-how, did all the research, wrote all the code, and drove the entire process. Based on their claim that he did this under the terms of their employment contract, they get to swap his name out for their own. It's grotesque.

Share this post


Link to post

What is Facebook's stance on their recent acquisition?

Share this post


Link to post
Linguica said:

I also think it's interesting to note that John Carmack did essentially the same thing nearly 25 years ago at the company he worked for before he left to found id Software. He used company assets, on company time, to work on a project that was basically in direct competition. The more things change...


I'm with you there. Too bad no Social Network movie was ever made.

Share this post


Link to post
Quasar said:

Why in the hell would a guy like Carmack ever sign a contract stating everything he writes/thinks of/emails somebody about in a given place belongs to somebody else, and then violate that contract. He's supposed to be smarter than that.

Hopefully he was smarter than that, and most if not all of the stuff in ZeniMax's claims can be demonstrated as bullshit.

The most annoying part of reading through the entire thing is that, legality aside, you can replace every instance of the word "ZeniMax" with "John Carmack."

ZeniMax had nothing on VR and they know it. It was Carmack who had all the technological know-how, did all the research, wrote all the code, and drove the entire process. Based on their claim that he did this under the terms of their employment contract, they get to swap his name out for their own. It's grotesque.


Because he wanted to sell ID and it may have been in the deal. IBM has or did have agreements like that. If you want to work for us, everything you make is ours. There was even an issue with the guy that made Bratz was working for Mattel at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
geo said:

Because he wanted to sell ID and it may have been in the deal. IBM has or did have agreements like that. If you want to work for us, everything you make is ours. There was even an issue with the guy that made Bratz was working for Mattel at the time.

Everybody has agreements like that. But when a person wants to contribute somewhere else and they're under such an agreement, then they should go to the absolute greatest lengths to make sure their contributions are NOT subject to the contract. That's just common sense.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now