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vtm

Carmack accused of stealing Oculus Rift tech

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Wait, can't he still win by having his lawyer(s) prove the contrary?

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Zenimax has an uphill battle showing he's guilty. We might see this go to trial in 2 or 5 years. THEE John Carmack might go with a jury trial, but it'll last a long time.

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Quasar said:

ZeniMax had nothing on VR and they know it. It was Carmack who had all the technological know-how, did all the research, wrote all the code, and drove the entire process. Based on their claim that he did this under the terms of their employment contract, they get to swap his name out for their own. It's grotesque.

I just hope he can prove it was his efforts alone and not that of Zenimax as a collective. They lucked out with that photo of them "struggling" to get it to work without Zeni's godlike technical know-how. (lul)

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Doomkid said:

I just hope he can prove it was his efforts alone and not that of Zenimax as a collective. They lucked out with that photo of them "struggling" to get it to work without Carmack'sZeni's godlike technical know-how. (lul)

FTFY

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Depending what agreements Carmack signed while working for Zenimax, they could easily win this one. Some software companies make employees sign legally binding documents that give them all rights to any code and ideas they have while under their employment.

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Ugh, I really hope Zenimax lose this one, I will be a sad sad man if they don't.

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Still just hoping Carmack / Oculus have a really strong defense. It looks like Zenimax has done a really good job finding more dirt in the last two years which isn't surprising, they're clearly frothing at the thought of smashing Oculus like a little cash-pinata.

Also still wish Carmack had been more careful about all this while he was working for a bunch of vultures such a large company - I'm sure these types of claims are relatively common when it comes to inventing/developing new tech.

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I mean, this is the same guy that broke into a school with thermite paste to steal an Apple II. We'll just have to wait and see where the case ends up going I guess.

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kristus said:

That nerver happened. He got caught breaking into a computer lab. He only used the computers. He didnt steal them. Same with the softdisk PCs they were borrowing.

(I had to)

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But what he also did was take Softdisk's computers on weekends to make Adaptive Tile Refresh without their knowledge at all. Not tried to, actually did.

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vtm said:

garage-based pipe dream


I'm greatly amused by the use of a phrase such as this one in what's supposedly a more or less official document. I have no idea why, but it just makes me laugh internally.

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Doomkid said:

Still just hoping Carmack / Oculus have a really strong defense. It looks like Zenimax has done a really good job finding more dirt in the last two years which isn't surprising, they're clearly frothing at the thought of smashing Oculus like a little cash-pinata.


Oculus belongs to Facebook now. Just pointing that out because you seem to be under the impression that plucky little Oculus is the David of this story vs. the ZeniMax Goliath.

Doomkid said:

Also still wish Carmack had been more careful about all this while he was working for a bunch of vultures such a large company - I'm sure these types of claims are relatively common when it comes to inventing/developing new tech.


Giant faceless megacorporation ZeniMax Media Inc. is valued at a whole 2.5 billion dollars and employs over a thousand people; whereas poor plucky defenseless li'l Facebook is only valued at a measly little 44.2 billion dollars, and is a family-sized structure of merely 13600 employees. Good thing Carmack no longer works for a bunch of vultures!

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Tough call. I have to choose a side between the two companies whose products I use the most in my life: Facebook (for social networking) and ZeniMax (for Doom).

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Gez said:

Oculus belongs to Facebook now. Just pointing that out because you seem to be under the impression that plucky little Oculus is the David of this story vs. the ZeniMax Goliath.

Giant faceless megacorporation ZeniMax Media Inc. is valued at a whole 2.5 billion dollars and employs over a thousand people; whereas poor plucky defenseless li'l Facebook is only valued at a measly little 44.2 billion dollars, and is a family-sized structure of merely 13600 employees. Good thing Carmack no longer works for a bunch of vultures!

My understanding of this entire situation was completely backwards as was my impression of who was tied in with Facebook. Consider my previous words eaten!

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printz said:

Tough call. I have to choose a side between the two companies whose products I use the most in my life: Facebook (for social networking) and ZeniMax (for Doom).

I really don't feel the need to side with Zenimax just because they now own Doom and published only one new game. :P They can likely handle a loss.

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If anybody are the Davids it'll be Carmack and Iribe, as both are personally named as defendants in this case, outside the protection of any sort of corporate veil. A sufficiently severe judgment against either could find them bankrupt.

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i'm calling bullshit. zenimax probably just wants the money so that they can stamp out their rival. and, besides, how likely is it that carmack actually did steal the code? it's nearly zero - if he can revolutionize the gaming industry, TWICE, then he can make VR. he's a competent coder, and doesn't need to steal anything in order to make a VR headset. i'm sure that if he had the time, he could probably do it in his basement, with no outside help.

edit: nevermind i'm dumb

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roadworx said:

i'm calling bullshit. zenimax probably just wants the money so that they can stamp out their rival.

In what way exactly are Oculus or Facebook rivals to ZeniMax? Please explain about Oculus/Facebook's AAA game development and publishing activities, or ZeniMax's social network and VR goggles activities.

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Gez said:

In what way exactly are Oculus or Facebook rivals to ZeniMax? Please explain about Oculus/Facebook's AAA game development and publishing activities, or ZeniMax's social network and VR goggles activities.


the oculus rift?

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roadworx said:

i'm calling bullshit. zenimax probably just wants the money so that they can stamp out their rival. and, besides, how likely is it that carmack actually did steal the code? it's nearly zero - if he can revolutionize the gaming industry, TWICE, then he can make VR. he's a competent coder, and doesn't need to steal anything in order to make a VR headset. i'm sure that if he had the time, he could probably do it in his basement, with no outside help.


They're not saying he didn't do it; they're saying he doesn't own the work he did. That happens a lot when people invent things while working for companies. The companies involved are often correct. He's done enough high-profile work that we might expect him to be more careful than Zenimax alleges, which makes this more interesting than it would be with most developers.

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roadworx said:

the oculus rift?

Yes, what about it? How is it a competition for anything produced by a ZeniMax company?

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Gez said:

Yes, what about it? How is it a competition for anything produced by a ZeniMax company?


nvm, i looked it up and must've gotten confused; zenimax doesn't make vr headsets. (i thought they did)

Aliotroph? said:

They're not saying he didn't do it; they're saying he doesn't own the work he did. That happens a lot when people invent things while working for companies. The companies involved are often correct. He's done enough high-profile work that we might expect him to be more careful than Zenimax alleges, which makes this more interesting than it would be with most developers.


thanks, that makes a lot more sense
that's still pretty stupid, nonetheless.

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printz said:

Tough call. I have to choose a side between the two companies whose products I use the most in my life: Facebook (for social networking) and ZeniMax (for Doom).

Or you could, you know, not "choose a side" in an intellectual property lawsuit between two corporations?

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Linguica said:

Or you could, you know, not "choose a side" in an intellectual property lawsuit between two corporations?

It's hard to cheer for anybody in the case anyways. On one side, there's Facebook (eww) and Oculus (their SDK can't be used by free software programs, and they tried to pull that DRM thing in the next-to-last update, so screw them), and on the other side there's ZeniMax. Blech. The best outcome would be for both sides to waste a bunch of money and get very little in return IMHO. De-incentivize a future repeat.

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It's simple to understand only one thing - Facebook has bigger balls than Zenimax. Pretty funny situation. GL, HF.

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Well, I don't work for Zenimax.
I also don't work for Oculus.
Hell, I don't even work for Facebook.

I'm also not a legal expert nor was there I there to witness the events behind the accusations or claims (which I'm sure, while they may or may not be exaggerated, are not entirely unwarranted). I think I'll just sit back and let the legal system do it's job and figure "who wronged who", continue using both my oculus headset and playing Zenimax's games, and move on with my life.

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