printz Posted May 22, 2014 Wait, can't he still win by having his lawyer(s) prove the contrary? 0 Share this post Link to post
geo Posted May 22, 2014 Zenimax has an uphill battle showing he's guilty. We might see this go to trial in 2 or 5 years. THEE John Carmack might go with a jury trial, but it'll last a long time. 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted May 22, 2014 Quasar said:ZeniMax had nothing on VR and they know it. It was Carmack who had all the technological know-how, did all the research, wrote all the code, and drove the entire process. Based on their claim that he did this under the terms of their employment contract, they get to swap his name out for their own. It's grotesque. I just hope he can prove it was his efforts alone and not that of Zenimax as a collective. They lucked out with that photo of them "struggling" to get it to work without Zeni's godlike technical know-how. (lul) 0 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted May 22, 2014 Doomkid said:I just hope he can prove it was his efforts alone and not that of Zenimax as a collective. They lucked out with that photo of them "struggling" to get it to work without Carmack'sZeni's godlike technical know-how. (lul) FTFY 0 Share this post Link to post
SYS Posted May 27, 2014 Depending what agreements Carmack signed while working for Zenimax, they could easily win this one. Some software companies make employees sign legally binding documents that give them all rights to any code and ideas they have while under their employment. 0 Share this post Link to post
Avoozl Posted May 28, 2014 Ugh, I really hope Zenimax lose this one, I will be a sad sad man if they don't. 0 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted August 23, 2016 BUMP Zenimax has filed an amended complaint that, among other things, now directly accuses Carmack of theft (well, tortious "conversion", but whatever). http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/08/22/zenimax-lawsuit-against-oculus-now-direcly-accuses-john-carmack-of-theft.aspx 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted August 23, 2016 Still just hoping Carmack / Oculus have a really strong defense. It looks like Zenimax has done a really good job finding more dirt in the last two years which isn't surprising, they're clearly frothing at the thought of smashing Oculus like a little cash-pinata. Also still wish Carmack had been more careful about all this while he was working for a bunch of vultures such a large company - I'm sure these types of claims are relatively common when it comes to inventing/developing new tech. 0 Share this post Link to post
Jaxxoon R Posted August 23, 2016 I mean, this is the same guy that broke into a school with thermite paste to steal an Apple II. We'll just have to wait and see where the case ends up going I guess. 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted August 23, 2016 kristus said:That nerver happened. He got caught breaking into a computer lab. He only used the computers. He didnt steal them. Same with the softdisk PCs they were borrowing. (I had to) 0 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted August 23, 2016 But what he also did was take Softdisk's computers on weekends to make Adaptive Tile Refresh without their knowledge at all. Not tried to, actually did. 0 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted August 23, 2016 vtm said:garage-based pipe dream I'm greatly amused by the use of a phrase such as this one in what's supposedly a more or less official document. I have no idea why, but it just makes me laugh internally. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted August 23, 2016 Doomkid said:Still just hoping Carmack / Oculus have a really strong defense. It looks like Zenimax has done a really good job finding more dirt in the last two years which isn't surprising, they're clearly frothing at the thought of smashing Oculus like a little cash-pinata. Oculus belongs to Facebook now. Just pointing that out because you seem to be under the impression that plucky little Oculus is the David of this story vs. the ZeniMax Goliath. Doomkid said:Also still wish Carmack had been more careful about all this while he was working for a bunch of vultures such a large company - I'm sure these types of claims are relatively common when it comes to inventing/developing new tech. Giant faceless megacorporation ZeniMax Media Inc. is valued at a whole 2.5 billion dollars and employs over a thousand people; whereas poor plucky defenseless li'l Facebook is only valued at a measly little 44.2 billion dollars, and is a family-sized structure of merely 13600 employees. Good thing Carmack no longer works for a bunch of vultures! 0 Share this post Link to post
printz Posted August 23, 2016 Tough call. I have to choose a side between the two companies whose products I use the most in my life: Facebook (for social networking) and ZeniMax (for Doom). 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted August 23, 2016 Gez said:Oculus belongs to Facebook now. Just pointing that out because you seem to be under the impression that plucky little Oculus is the David of this story vs. the ZeniMax Goliath. Giant faceless megacorporation ZeniMax Media Inc. is valued at a whole 2.5 billion dollars and employs over a thousand people; whereas poor plucky defenseless li'l Facebook is only valued at a measly little 44.2 billion dollars, and is a family-sized structure of merely 13600 employees. Good thing Carmack no longer works for a bunch of vultures! My understanding of this entire situation was completely backwards as was my impression of who was tied in with Facebook. Consider my previous words eaten! 0 Share this post Link to post
Avoozl Posted August 23, 2016 printz said:Tough call. I have to choose a side between the two companies whose products I use the most in my life: Facebook (for social networking) and ZeniMax (for Doom).I really don't feel the need to side with Zenimax just because they now own Doom and published only one new game. :P They can likely handle a loss. 0 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted August 23, 2016 If anybody are the Davids it'll be Carmack and Iribe, as both are personally named as defendants in this case, outside the protection of any sort of corporate veil. A sufficiently severe judgment against either could find them bankrupt. 0 Share this post Link to post
roadworx Posted August 23, 2016 i'm calling bullshit. zenimax probably just wants the money so that they can stamp out their rival. and, besides, how likely is it that carmack actually did steal the code? it's nearly zero - if he can revolutionize the gaming industry, TWICE, then he can make VR. he's a competent coder, and doesn't need to steal anything in order to make a VR headset. i'm sure that if he had the time, he could probably do it in his basement, with no outside help. edit: nevermind i'm dumb 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted August 23, 2016 roadworx said:i'm calling bullshit. zenimax probably just wants the money so that they can stamp out their rival. In what way exactly are Oculus or Facebook rivals to ZeniMax? Please explain about Oculus/Facebook's AAA game development and publishing activities, or ZeniMax's social network and VR goggles activities. 0 Share this post Link to post
roadworx Posted August 23, 2016 Gez said:In what way exactly are Oculus or Facebook rivals to ZeniMax? Please explain about Oculus/Facebook's AAA game development and publishing activities, or ZeniMax's social network and VR goggles activities. the oculus rift? 0 Share this post Link to post
Aliotroph? Posted August 23, 2016 roadworx said:i'm calling bullshit. zenimax probably just wants the money so that they can stamp out their rival. and, besides, how likely is it that carmack actually did steal the code? it's nearly zero - if he can revolutionize the gaming industry, TWICE, then he can make VR. he's a competent coder, and doesn't need to steal anything in order to make a VR headset. i'm sure that if he had the time, he could probably do it in his basement, with no outside help. They're not saying he didn't do it; they're saying he doesn't own the work he did. That happens a lot when people invent things while working for companies. The companies involved are often correct. He's done enough high-profile work that we might expect him to be more careful than Zenimax alleges, which makes this more interesting than it would be with most developers. 0 Share this post Link to post
Reisal Posted August 23, 2016 Zenimax should make their own headset at this point in time. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted August 23, 2016 roadworx said:the oculus rift? Yes, what about it? How is it a competition for anything produced by a ZeniMax company? 0 Share this post Link to post
roadworx Posted August 23, 2016 Gez said:Yes, what about it? How is it a competition for anything produced by a ZeniMax company? nvm, i looked it up and must've gotten confused; zenimax doesn't make vr headsets. (i thought they did) Aliotroph? said:They're not saying he didn't do it; they're saying he doesn't own the work he did. That happens a lot when people invent things while working for companies. The companies involved are often correct. He's done enough high-profile work that we might expect him to be more careful than Zenimax alleges, which makes this more interesting than it would be with most developers. thanks, that makes a lot more sense that's still pretty stupid, nonetheless. 0 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted August 23, 2016 printz said:Tough call. I have to choose a side between the two companies whose products I use the most in my life: Facebook (for social networking) and ZeniMax (for Doom). Or you could, you know, not "choose a side" in an intellectual property lawsuit between two corporations? 0 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted August 23, 2016 Linguica said:Or you could, you know, not "choose a side" in an intellectual property lawsuit between two corporations? It's hard to cheer for anybody in the case anyways. On one side, there's Facebook (eww) and Oculus (their SDK can't be used by free software programs, and they tried to pull that DRM thing in the next-to-last update, so screw them), and on the other side there's ZeniMax. Blech. The best outcome would be for both sides to waste a bunch of money and get very little in return IMHO. De-incentivize a future repeat. 0 Share this post Link to post
qdash Posted August 24, 2016 It's simple to understand only one thing - Facebook has bigger balls than Zenimax. Pretty funny situation. GL, HF. 0 Share this post Link to post
Buckshot Posted August 24, 2016 Well, I don't work for Zenimax. I also don't work for Oculus. Hell, I don't even work for Facebook. I'm also not a legal expert nor was there I there to witness the events behind the accusations or claims (which I'm sure, while they may or may not be exaggerated, are not entirely unwarranted). I think I'll just sit back and let the legal system do it's job and figure "who wronged who", continue using both my oculus headset and playing Zenimax's games, and move on with my life. 0 Share this post Link to post