Mo. Teenager Shot by Police, Riots Ensue

http://www.newsweek.com/how-americas-police-became-army-1033-program-264537

http://maplight.org/content/73514

"Representatives voting to continue funding the 1033 Program have received, on average, 73 percent more money from the defense industry than representatives voting to defund it."

It all comes back to corruption in the Federal government. But, most people think that it's not worth the time and effort to fix the problem.

This whole situation is getting ridiculous.

It gets better - the police officer who stopped the kid allegedly didn't even know the kid was a robbery suspect - that tidbit of information was completely irrelevant to anything related to the shooting. They've made it very clear - "Hey, this kid was a robbery suspect, but at the same time, the officer who shot him had no idea he was a robbery suspect." So I really have no clue what the point of releasing that information was.

If being shot for simply being a SUSPECT wasn't bad enough.

geekmarine said:

So I really have no clue what the point of releasing that information was.

Really? It's a pr stunt/character assassination.

Quast said:

Really? It's a pr stunt/character assassination.

Yeah okay, the cynic in me knew that right from the very get-go, but yeah, it really has absolutely nothing to do with the case. Being shot for being a suspect in the robbery would've been bad enough, but even the police were clear in saying that the guy who shot the kid had no idea he was even a suspect. But who cares, it makes a good talking point for the conservative media - not that I want to bring politics into this, but no matter what your personal politics are, I think everyone can agree the conservatives are going to hone in on this fact and not let it go, even though it has nothing to do with the case.

geekmarine said:

They've made it very clear - "Hey, this kid was a robbery suspect, but at the same time, the officer who shot him had no idea he was a robbery suspect." So I really have no clue what the point of releasing that information was.

Reminds me of a humorous comic, where a driver had run over a man with a lit cigarette in his mouth, and apologized to the policeman "But, mr. Policeman, he would have died from the smoking anyway!"

Saw this when they were covering the protests, had to take a closer look to make out whether that's a soldier or a policeman.

How ridiculous is that?

Bipod and tripod. Why? Cause 'Murica.

This entire situation is getting more and more ridiculous the more updates come down the pike. They released security cam footage of this kid supposedly robbing a QuickTrip gas station and the guy in the video looks like he's in his mid fucking 40's.

Grew up in the St. Louis area, so I can say first-hand that the racial segregation and inequality is one of the highest I've every heard of/seen/encountered. STL County is particularly guilty for being a group of segregated neighborhoods in which, if you aren't white and in a white neighborhood, you're getting accosted in some way shape or form. This is just the moment that all of those things that were hardly under the surface became exposed to all simultaneously. I used the term "racial clusterfuck" to describe this at the outset and I stand by that - it's an entire history of BS in the area.

Fact of the matter is that STL is a fantastic place to live for many, but not all. The city is wonderful and full of some really lively culture, but as soon as you cross the limits into west/north/south county, you're in white suburbia, and they are terrified of minorities there, whether they admit or not.

I think Do The Right Thing is the closest way to describe the situation right now - the yuppie crowd has taken a holier-than-thou stance and question why the QT was burned down rather than why the incident transpired to begin with. So sad to see...

And yet, if experience is any guide, I'm guessing it's the white people who are gonna be saying that it's white people who get accosted for stepping into the wrong neighborhood. I've never been to St. Louis, but I've been around that type enough to know how they see the world. Hell, here in South Texas, there's a majority hispanic population, but until just a couple of years before my family moved here, whites basically ran everything, and it was kinda similar crap - this perception that the noble white people were in charge to keep those primitive, savage natives in line.

The most shocking part about it all is, again, can't speak for the St. Louis area, but from personal experience, the white people have no real concept of their own racism. Any racist attitudes they have tend to be "justified" in their eyes. You know, you do something to piss someone off, you get a reaction, and then use that reaction to say, "See, I'm not racist, these people really are like that." And of course, if I or anyone else were ever to try to point this out, you get the whole speech about white guilt and how, "Oh it's not really like that, you've just been trained to hate your own race, blame the liberals and minorities, etc."

I like how not just riots ensue but looting. wtf? I can understand riots as a form of extreme protest, but looting just means they're all criminals. Again... White Chicago cops shoot unarmed black teens, people protest and ask why are there guns in Chicago? Its weird that Chicago can have 40 - 50 shootings per weekend and they're all in the south side. The black side of Chicago, the industrial side.

Speaking of St. Louis... I'm going there with my gf next weekend for a theme park. Cuz who cares.

ON NBC NEWS CHICAGO (INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL BROWN'S ATTORNEY):

So now the police are letting out their side of the story. This giant teenager strong arm robbed some convenience store of cigars. There's video of it. Dude is a giant.

Then he was found blocking traffic walking in the streets so the cops stopped him and uh shot him. The guy he was with in the video was helping him block traffic. #BlackProblems

Now the store he stole from is a target. #BrownProblems

Brown's attorney says its a character assassination. Yeah then there wouldn't be video footage.

My last time in St. Louis I was in McDonalds eating with a friend... we then watched a customer of McDonalds go outside and steal hubcaps from the car next to my friend's then walk away. Didn't even bother hiding the hubcaps.

One thing I have to wonder is.... dashcam footage of Brown getting killed. There has to be something. I have a feeling every cop car has a dashcam now.

The FBI is now looking for witnesses, but Brown's attorney fears police retaliation from the Furgisson for any witnesses. The county is now in charge of the investigation promising transparency.

Brown's attorney says witnesses say Brown had his hands up and the cop kept shooting him and wants a 2nd autopsy for the bullet trajectory.

geo said:
I like how not just riots ensue but looting. wtf? I can understand riots as a form of extreme protest, but looting just means they're all criminals.

Perhaps they also worship private property as much as you do, so it comes naturally.

Worshiping private property is expressed as much in the looting as it is in being more concerned about the stealing than the violence.

myk said:

Perhaps they also worship private property as much as you do, so it comes naturally.

Worshiping private property is expressed as much in the looting as it is in being more concerned about the stealing than the violence.

Nah less is more honestly.

So the news this morning is showing pictures of Michael Brown and showing pictures of him. They're all childhood pictures of him and not the giant he turned into. Well I guess Robin Williams's death has made childhood photos show up on the news.

Geo, it is character assassination because the alleged robbery has absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. The police even said that - the cop who shot him didn't even know about the robbery. So why bring it up? What's it got to do with the shooting, other than to say, "See, this is just some little punk thug who deserved to get iced." You have to build a wall in your mind around that fact, because it has nothing to do with the actual shooting. Unfortunately, and the police were counting on this, many people won't, they'll just see some punk criminal kid, and to them the details of the shooting don't even matter anymore - he got what he deserved, regardless of whether or not he was actually posing a threat to the police officer who shot him.

The only thing that matters is whether or not the kid was backing off when the police officer shot him. You can't bring up the robbery because the police officer didn't know about the robbery, wasn't stopping him over the robbery, and certainly didn't shoot him over the robbery. But so many people just say, "Oh, well he committed a robbery, he deserved to be shot, even if he wasn't being stopped over the robbery."

geekmarine said:

Geo, it is character assassination because the alleged robbery has absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. The police even said that - the cop who shot him didn't even know about the robbery. So why bring it up? What's it got to do with the shooting, other than to say, "See, this is just some little punk thug who deserved to get iced." You have to build a wall in your mind around that fact, because it has nothing to do with the actual shooting. Unfortunately, and the police were counting on this, many people won't, they'll just see some punk criminal kid, and to them the details of the shooting don't even matter anymore - he got what he deserved, regardless of whether or not he was actually posing a threat to the police officer who shot him.

The only thing that matters is whether or not the kid was backing off when the police officer shot him. You can't bring up the robbery because the police officer didn't know about the robbery, wasn't stopping him over the robbery, and certainly didn't shoot him over the robbery. But so many people just say, "Oh, well he committed a robbery, he deserved to be shot, even if he wasn't being stopped over the robbery."

Video. He was an 18 year old. The law dictates you a man. They shot a man, an adult, a giant that strongarm robbed and shoved a clerk with video footage. He's not a little punk thug. He's a giant thug that shoved a clerk who was blocking traffic walking in the road.

He was stopped for blocking traffic. Its a safety concern.

I am just off put that they're making it sound and look like he was a kid. He's an adult bigger than probably 95% of people. Does that mean he deserved to get shot? No. Does that mean St. Louis gets to riot and loot? No.

Maybe the cops should have said Michael Brown was walking in on the officer or going for the gun.

Anyway, the county and FBI will find out what went down and again the dash cam footage will surface.

Over here in Argentina we had looting cases near the end of last year, and the looting was instigated and encouraged by cops, some of which were certainly linked to drug traffickers.

In the heat of the moment, people may be tempted to join the looting, but it's mostly something that detracts from their protests and can serve as a cover up for criminals. If the cops are corrupt they could have encouraged criminals to loot in order to drive a wedge of chaos into the protests, as a sort of "mass character assassination".

So is it character building to show all of these child photos of him to make it seem like the cops shot a kid, when again he was an 18 year old man?

He committed a crime therefore he didn't have the right to get shot let alone killed. Just like the cop committed a crime so people don't have a right to riot when they could peacefully protest.

I think that was my original thought sorry to beat around the bush.

Cops encouraged looting? Weird. Take stuff, don't hurt each other. Just take stuff. I guess it makes sense.

But again, why can't they peacefully protest? Bullhorns yelling at cops.

What's the video got to do with it? The cop hadn't seen the video. The cop wasn't stopping him over the robbery. Do you not get that? What, do you think the cop suddenly developed psychic powers? It's character assassination because again, it has nothing to do with why he was shot. Unless the cop was stopping him FOR THE ROBBERY, which, as stated over and over again, the cop had no idea a robbery had happened, it's irrelevant.

You seem to keep missing that point. Or you don't care. I don't care what was on the video, it had nothing to do with why the kid was stopped. You can't go back and say, "Oh, okay, in hindsight, it was perfectly fine for the cop to shoot the kid, because the kid was a thief." If the cop was stopping the kid over the robbery, that would be a completely different situation, but you seem to act like it doesn't matter.

So let me reiterate - the kid was not stopped over the robbery. The cop had not seen the video. The cop shot the kid for standing in the street, as far as anyone can tell. So why does the video matter?

I've been around that type enough to know how they see the world.

the white people have no real concept of their own racism. Any racist attitudes they have tend to be "justified" in their eyes.

????????????

geo said:
But again, why can't they peacefully protest? Bullhorns yelling at cops.

That is a good question and why I suspect possible foul play by criminals or the cops themselves. It plays into the hands of those who don't want to see the protests get anywhere and is counterproductive for anyone seeking justice for the death of this 18 year-old kid.

geo said:

I am just off put that they're making it sound and look like he was a kid. He's an adult bigger than probably 95% of people.

What you ought to ask yourself is: Why is it that there is always discussion and contention regarding the physical size of black males in situations like this but never with white males?

But putting that aside, if indeed he and his friend robbed this store beforehand, it starts to lend credence to the police story a bit. Not justification of what happened though. Even if the officer involved with the shooting knew nothing of the robbery or that they were suspects, these two guy may have believed that he had and was coming to arrest them and that may very well have dictated actions that they took.

Quast said:

What you ought to ask yourself is: Why is it that there is always discussion and contention regarding the physical size of black males in situations like this but never with white males?

Yep. #BlackProblems

There was a white guy that was killed by white cops on Doomworld. His size was never brought into question. Just that he was some dude doing nothing until cops smothered him. His size was never brought in, just drug use.

Anyway, if this cop did randomly kill a surrendering black man... not everyone is good at their job. Some people fail, but not all jobs have guns.

myk said:

That is a good question and why I suspect possible foul play by criminals or the cops themselves. It plays into the hands of those who don't want to see the protests get anywhere and is counterproductive for anyone seeking justice for the death of this 18 year-old kid.

Even when Tayvon Martin was killed. No riots. Just protest and anger. At least in Florida there were protests.

geo said:
Anyway, if this cop did randomly kill a surrendering black man... not everyone is good at their job. Some people fail, but not all jobs have guns.

Are we to conclude that this would be due to the misbehavior of an individual and not to broader police or policy issues?

myk said:

Are we to conclude that this would be due to the misbehavior of an individual and not to broader police or policy issues?

I'm sure its not police policy... if you spot a black guy shoot him even when he surrenders. Chances are its just one guy (cop) that got scared, pissed off or whatever else, but now the city needs to keep themselves from getting sued over wrongful death.

Why isn't Al Sharpton there to calm the people and comfort the family like he was there for the father of 5 killed by cops for supposedly selling loose cigarettes?

Sucks for witnesses of this particular shooting living in that ghetto who know what happened but gotta keep quiet for fear of police or non police retaliation. I'd say the bigger fear is non police retaliation. Even the guys that showed up to defend the convenience store were in masks.

I'll say tackle this from every angle, check the cop's gun to see if it was even discharged and not a 2nd guy with a gun on the street that didn't like Michael Brown. So when he was giving up to the cop, pop pop. But then the cop would probably tell people that there was someone else. Again, the dashcam will be interesting.

geo said:
I'm sure its not police policy... if you spot a black guy shoot him even when he surrenders.

I didn't say that is a policy and certainly don't think so. The policy issues would be in the way urban security and police interaction with the population are handled, as well as the incidence of economic policies that may stimulate conflicts between cops and poorer people. Even the state of the prison and jail systems is a factor in police violence, since you might as well fight back than surrender and be sent to the equivalent of hell or to a veritable torture facility.

myk said:

Worshiping private property is expressed as much in the looting as it is in being more concerned about the stealing than the violence.

A person's body is part of the libertarian concept of property, and property can only be legitimately acquired through non aggression (ie not by threatening or invading another person or their legitimately acquired property) such as homesteading, voluntary trade, gifting or gambling. Property titles clearly define what is or isn't aggression based on who owns it. Stealing from or physically attacking someone both aggress against their property, the latter being their body which they homesteaded.

Again, the riots are unnecessary. Stupid people. Have you not learned from the LA Riots?

myk said:

Perhaps they also worship private property as much as you do, so it comes naturally.

Worshiping private property is expressed as much in the looting as it is in being more concerned about the stealing than the violence.

Are you allowed to be concerned about both? You know, seeing as looting destroys jobs and in some cases it destroys entire futures (when an owner uses his business as the sole means to support his family and send his children to school).

Bucket said:
...I only care when the trial will happen, because felony murder has been committed...

I take it you don't follow cases of "officer-involved-shootings" much. Ferguson PD will conduct an "internal investigation" which will determine that the officer was not at fault, even though he did not know that Brown was a 'suspect' in a robbery at the time he shot him, and he neglected to call the shooting in as he is required to, and that will be the end of it on their end. It was Brown's fault he was shot, it was the female protestor's fault she was shot, it was the fault of people who were in their homes not protesting that they were tear-gassed, it was the state senator's fault she was tear-gassed, it was the fault of journalists who were tear-gassed and arrested for not framing this the way the police needed it to be framed. It was Obama's and Holder's fault for not allowing the upstanding members of the Ferguson Police Department to protect their God-fearing, patriotic, red-blooded American citizens, and interfering in the business of the soverign state of Missouri, which has never held anything less than an impeccable record on civil rights.

And now the governor's being attacked by the DA for removing the Ferguson PD officers from 'securing' the town, and replacing them with Highway Patrol.