Getting to know you, part 3.

the_Danarchist said:

Hmm...I would never call myself a Satanist for a couple reasons:

1)I don't pick sides. The only organisation I belong to is me.

2)Someone said it had to do with indulgence or something. Thats really not my style. I mean, I do believe in having a good time but, there are other things more important to me. Perhaps one day I shall post my views on human how I view myself in relation to society, etc.

Yep - anything in moderation is OK as far as the SB is concerned (i'm skipping bits and pieces as i'm concentrating on the most important bits.
Greatly annebriated... they support indulgence as long as it doesn't lead to the harm of others (without their consent of course). And, if it could possibly lead to harming yourself... you are your own responsibility, aren't you? Anyone else can tell you what is good for you/not good for you, but it's YOU who makes the decision to go ahead and do it.

Man, it's 4.35am - am i making any sense?

Very good Spike. Are you just interested in the various philosophies or are you actually a member of the Satanic Church? I have always seen Satanism to more or less just say it how it is. Quite frankly Christianity only has thousands of martyrs and 2000 years of blood stained past to support it. Like most monopoly-like things, it relies on oppression and the use of fear to enslave its masses whereas Satanism is entirely voluntarily and it is actually a standard for Satanists to continue in their quest for knowledge and understand various things. In some cases it may even be alright if an individual practices Satanism but also practices Christianity if that suites that particular individual. Although Satanism generally discriminates against Christianity, it also understands people as they are and their need to believe in things. The Satanic state of mind is very open minded and does not unjustly discriminate against other religions (for the most part.)

This is a clip from an article with Peter Gilmore to further demonstrate what I have said:

Church of Satan founder, and author of the Satanic Bible, Anton Szandor LaVey, died in 1998 and since then the Church has come under the guidance of his successor, the High Priestess Barton, and the Council of Nine (kind of a board of directors for the Church of Satan). In speaking with council member Magistrate Peter Gilmore, I was shocked to learn that the Church of Satan doesn’t believe there is, or ever was, a Satan.

Peter Gilmore: We have a completely different premise than the Christians. We don’t believe in their Jesus or Devil. Satanism is an approach to life that acknowledges man as the carnal animal that he is. We are very materialistic. We are not spiritual at all. We see Satan abstractly - as a grounds for existence - the dark force that
permeates all forces of nature.

Eric Nuzum: Then why call yourselves Satanists, if you do not believe there is any such thing as Satan?

Peter Gilmore: Because if we reject their point of view, then we are Satanists. We do not believe in a savior; we do not believe there is anything wrong with man. And by accepting that, we are considered evil and Satanic by the Christian Doctrine. We feel that Satan is an important archetype for us. The word itself means “adversary,”
“opposer,” or “accuser” - and we are the adversaries, opposers, and accusers of all spiritual doctrines, not just Christians.

Eric Nuzum: If you don’t believe in spirituality, why do you organize yourselves as a church?

Peter Gilmore: We believe man is a perceptual being. We create metaphors and symbols to grasp a large range of concepts. Symbol is important to us, therefor ritual is important to us.

Eric Nuzum: What is the difference between a Satanist and a devil worshipper?

Peter Gilmore: A devil worshipper believes there is a Devil - a Christian heretic. They believe in a God and a Devil, and they opt to go for the bad guy. For our purposes neither exists. I challenge anyone to show a single “devil worshipper” who isn’t mentally ill.

Eric Nuzum: Are there people out there who are devil worshippers?

Peter Gilmore: There is no organized group out there. While you will find some disturbed individuals, you will basically find handfuls of those people at best.

Eric Nuzum: What about Marilyn Manson? He palled around with Anton LaVey, is a member of the Church of Satan, and refers to himself as a devil worshipper.

Peter Gilmore: Marilyn Manson is a showman. Basically, whatever persona he puts out there is going to be the one that he feels is going to sell the most records. It’s the showman aspect that makes him a real Satanist, not whatever blather he is spouting at the moment to get people to buy his albums. Marilyn Manson is a showman, so was Anton LaVey.

On another note, it seems somewhat sad that people discriminate against Satanism when they know absolutely nothing about it. I suppose it is no worse than hating people for the clothes they wear though. In any case, the entire purpose of me even posting that (with a big help from Spike) was to perhaps shed some light in these
otherwise narrow minded forums.

Thou light doth shine.

It shines forth of thine ass.

Pull out thine head and illuminate me.

Vampirajay said:
ok, diffences between christian and satanic rules!
Christians - no sex before marrage (ok, fair enough on that one if that's what you choose)
- no use of contreseption (ok, lets just over populate the country even more)
- do unto others as you would like them to do unto you (so, if someone beats the shit out of me, rapes me, murders me, its ok cuz, "jesus loves me?)
- and the big one!!!! no abusing children (then how come their are so many pedo's in the church! so basicly, what ever you do, your gonna burn in hell! you can't help but break a rule if you live in this world!

Well, well, someone here doesn't know a whole lot about modern Christians :-)
No sex before marriage? Wake up dude (/"dudess"), we're in the year 2002 where only Retard Christians (i.e. fundamentalists) abhor sex before marriage.
And the one about paedophilic priests is only one branch of Christianity, not to mention that it's only in one small part of it - do you honestly think that the rest of us accept it? Hell no, lots of us are eager to tear these priest fuckers' hearts out (and do something similar to those who let them do it). Believe me, if Satanism grew to such a large religion as Christianity there'll soon be similar outrages I'm sure.

i dont really know a religion right now, i was raised christian and i believe in a god and all, but i dont agree with the lifestyle and values of many christians i know a great many christians that try to convert everyone they see and its quite annoying

DSM - the point that she was trying to make was that while the Catholic church is against paedophilia, there are still active paedophiles within the system. Neither she nor i were trying to say that civilisation din't hate such fiends.

As for the sex before marriage - we're taking such rules from the Bible, etc. True, very few people nowadays follow such a directive... but then again, how many of the people out there who regard themselves as Catholic actually follow any of the commandments and rules laid out before them to be adhered to?

The worst part of Catholicism is it's ability to twist the divine mandate and STILL have it upheld by their God - because after all, what is true on Earth is true in Heaven, right?

BULLSHIT is what *I* say, it's just a cheap excuse to make any rules they want and for it to still be deemed 'Just and Holy'.

dsm said:

Well, well, someone here doesn't know a whole lot about modern Christians :-)
No sex before marriage? Wake up dude (/"dudess"), we're in the year 2002 where only Retard Christians (i.e. fundamentalists) abhor sex before marriage.
And the one about paedophilic priests is only one branch of Christianity, not to mention that it's only in one small part of it - do you honestly think that the rest of us accept it? Hell no, lots of us are eager to tear these priest fuckers' hearts out (and do something similar to those who let them do it). Believe me, if Satanism grew to such a large religion as Christianity there'll soon be similar outrages I'm sure.

you know what, i completly agree with you! i wasn't actually talking about christian followers, i was talking about the rule makers! but by what you put, you have proved my point! religion causes problems between people, here you are, having a go at me over what i said, when my only real comment is, ok, your right and i agree with you! strange that isn't it, i mean how one persons views on religion means they are totaly right! as i have said before, religion should be abolished for these reasons

"Paedophilia" is defined as sexual attraction to prepubescent children. The kids the priests were trying to bone were all between 12 and 14. It's still a horrible horrible crime, but it's not paedophilia.

Y'know, the Bible was written ages ago in a time where general rules were much stricter than now. Most Christians today are brought up with the bible in mind, but only with the "not-sofucked-up-rules" like "Thou shalt not steal" and most of us go our seperate way and form our own little religion on the basis of the bible - I'm registered as a Christian, but I no longer believe in God.

The Bible is just too damn obsolete to be taken serious, that's why I have zero respect for fundamentalists.

DSM - you, i and Vampirajay may have our different routes, but the three of us end up at the same conclusion :)
The Bible is, indeed, obsolete and laughably outdated - like i said, no-one follows such directives anymore.

Having said that, if there were no religions, we couldn't been having this EXCELLENT debate :)

IMJack said:

"Paedophilia" is defined as sexual attraction to prepubescent children. The kids the priests were trying to bone were all between 12 and 14. It's still a horrible horrible crime, but it's not paedophilia.

I disagree, paedophilia is sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object [children are: minor; adolescent, teenager, teener, teenybopper; brat, bratling, dickens, runabout; cherub, innocent, lamb, sweetling]

dsm said:

, but I no longer believe in God.

The Bible is just too damn obsolete to be taken serious, that's why I have zero respect for fundamentalists.

Yet you remember to capitalise God

God dammit.

Black seems to be the most intelligent guy here, why is he banned?

That's crazy talk. I'm the most intelligent one here! Have you the brain worms!?

I'm agnostic and I think ppl should be nice to eachother, that's it.

darknation said:

Thou light doth shine.

It shines forth of thine ass.

That's not a nice way to talk about yourself!:p

You've just proved White's point, you (expleative deleted for harmony's sake)!

fodders said:

Yet you remember to capitalise God

Of course, I was taught that that was the only way to spell 'God' - if I spelled it 'god' it could be EVERY fucking god in the world (it could be Thor, the god of war for all we'll know).
:-)

DSM: Thor is the god of thunder as well.

Just nitpicking.

Mad_AX666 said:

That's not a nice way to talk about yourself!:p

You've just proved White's point, you (expleative deleted for harmony's sake)!

I cannot be bothered constructing a decent arguement right now, especially seeing as how my only objective is to make you look like an idiot.

Basically put I think all religions are full of shit but Satanism has a higher shit content than anything else. That's my opinion, you will respect that or contradict yourself.

Bye!

heh...yeah

Bow down your heads to pray and to prepare having your pathetic heads smashed by the forces that are holier than you!

Its people like you Darknation that prove humanity is doomed. No pun intended. Well, I don't respect your opinion at all. As a matter of a fact, it sucks. You didn't even know what Satanism was 48 hours ago and quite frankly you still don't, but yet you will say it has a higher shit content than other conventional religions? Do you even know anything about religion?

Supposedly people have these things called brains in which people are supposed to think with, but if I were to judge you by your statements I would have to say you were the exception. I no longer care about those stupid rhetoric things though. I'll let it go. You remind me of the kind of person who is like I hate that but I don't even know what it is. I don't blame you for not thinking on your own.

If it seems like I'm ripping on you I apologize. I just took offense to your comments (even though I really don't care) and simply stated what was on my mind. It is all the same I guess. No matter where I go, I cannot escape the moronic mentality. I would take all that back if you could logically tell me in your humble words why Satanism is fuller of shit than any other religion? I think I'll start my response to whatever you have to say right now since I have a good idea what it is going to say...

White, I know you disagree vehemently with DN but could you please do it in a more friendly manner. You are one of those persons I wouldn't like to see IP-banned.

Shit happens in all religions :)

Cha-Ching! Darknation gets 50 points troll bonus.

I'll do this on a 1, 2, 3 point basis. That way perhaps I'll get some answers rahter than regurgitated dogma.

#1)"Its people like you Darknation that prove humanity is doomed."

First off, don't capitalise my name unless it happens to be at the begining of a sentence. And humanity is doomed exactly why? Because I refuse to recognise a bunch of shiteating loonies who magically appeared in a forum as soon as i dared voice my opinions on a shitty little cult? Ooooooooooooookay.


#2) "Well, I don't respect your opinion at all. As a matter of a fact, it sucks."

Feeling is mutual. You're opinion is worth more than mine why? Because you are a nicer person? Because thou art more learned than me? Or because you are a stuck-up little shitstain who feels it your job to parade around the internet informing me of my folly?


#3) You didn't even know what Satanism was 48 hours ago and quite frankly you still don't

I think I got my defination of Satanism down first hand when I called it a bunch of Pasty Goth Fruitloops who want faith to bring meaning to their otherwise horseshit existance but don't want sacrifice or hardship on thier part.


#4) but yet you will say it has a higher shit content than other conventional religions? Do you even know anything about religion?

Yup. You see, I'm not relying on a Satanic Bible here. I'm living life not by someone else's words. Everything I say or do is not based on hours of sitting with a book and trying to find the Meaning of Life, but rather my own personal experiences and observations. Forementioned observations have revealed the following facts -

(a), there is no God, or if there is praying to him sure as fuck won't change the situation.

(b), any Religion or Cult that I have had personal experience with is populated with weak, stupid people who need a crutch to get through life and run by narcassic and decadent shitheads who were 5% more intellegant than the flock and have found a way to bend the system for their own benifit.

(c), people tend to get pissy when you challenge their faith. This can be a source of great amusement.


#5)Supposedly people have these things called brains in which people are supposed to think with"

Some people do have them. Often they write their ideas in a book and stupid people read the book and try to follow the brainy people. Unfortunatly being ultimately stupid they fall a great deal short on realising the brainy purpose of said book, and end up doing stupid things like going into a doom forum (of all things) and howling at the non-followers in order to stabilise their growing shayness of faith.


#6) but if I were to judge you by your statements I would have to say you were the exception.

Judge away, you are obviously FAR superior to me in every way which automatically gives you the right to judge me.


#7) I no longer care about those stupid rhetoric things though. I'll let it go.[b]

Yes, ask only rhetorical questions. That way you can be sure the answers don't offend your delicate sensibilites. And you are not lettingti go, you are halfway through writing a reply to this because you are such a good 'judge' of character you can tell what I am goign to say before I even write it.

Judgey judgey judge, all the night long.


#8) [b]You remind me of the kind of person who is like I hate that but I don't even know what it is. I don't blame you for not thinking on your own.

Thank you very much. I don't blame you for writing like a retard either. You are forgiven for your shitwad sentence structure because darknation, like Satan Himself, loves you.

I point you towards #4, where I explain I don't need a shitty cult or book as a subsitute for independant thought.


#9) If it seems like I'm ripping on you I apologize. I just took offense to your comments (even though I really don't care) and simply stated what was on my mind.

No offence taken, I turn the other cheek to your cretinous and boundless moronic spazzitude. And you did indeed state what was on your mind, i.e. - not a lot.


#10) "It is all the same I guess. No matter where I go, I cannot escape the moronic mentality."

I had a friend like that. Everywhere he went he found the stink of shit. Everywhere he turned, the smell was around him. He moved house and got a new flat, but the stink of shit returned. He fled the country but the smell was in Fance also. He ran around the world, and everyplace he went the shit was still there!

In the end he figured out that he had stood in turd outside his original house. I suggest that the moronic mentality could be a similar phenomonon and is infact your own.


#11) I would take all that back if you could logically tell me in your humble words why Satanism is fuller of shit than any other religion?"

Mainly because of the people who pratice it. I find them to be vain, self-assured assholes who persistantly piss me off by making me write big-fuckoff explanations as to why I hate them and want them to die. Perhaps it's because the cult is so goddamn vague and sounds more than an excuse than a religion. But mainly I think it's because I'm a bigotted shitsack who enjoys molesting children and sucking of cattle.


#12) "I think I'll start my response to whatever you have to say right now since I have a good idea what it is going to say..."

Please so. i bet you saw this reply coming from a million miles away. I bet you can even tell what I'm going to type before I type it.

I appologise for the poor spelling and such in this, the Fith Letter to the Satanists (darknation 12:7). It's late and I have other people to bait.

Ta ta.

dn

I know... I know... I'm sorry. I won't do it again.

darknation said:

First off, don't capitalise my name unless it happens to be at the begining of a sentence.

Don't be pretentious, ONLY deadnail is allowed that honour!

Little Faith said:

You are one of those persons I wouldn't like to see IP-banned.

Eh, that wouldn't be possible unless all of AOL were to be banned.

Then again, all of AOL was banned, the ban just got lost when the forum software changed a few months back. For whatever reason, AOL only uses a grand total of 3 proxy servers, which members are randomly connected to at signon, so all 3 would have to be added to the IP ban list to keep anyone from AOL posting.

Mad_AX666 said:

DSM: Thor is the god of thunder as well.

Just nitpicking.

I know that, I was just too lazy to post his full title :-)
Heck, I grew up with all those Northern Mythology gods, so I should know.