Carnage in Paris

hardcore_gamer said:

And as usual, the sjw's of Doomworld fail to give any counter-arguments and thus resort to using childish personal attacks instead.

lol, I don't know what an 'ess jay double-yoo' is, but I'm sure it's some douchey straw-man shit.

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

they all devoutly and unquestionably believe in a book

Going and assuming all religious people are 'devout' is a big leap - I'd say easily 90% of Christians haven't read the bible or acknowledged a great deal of it, and I'm sure the numbers are about the same for other religious groups.

Most religious people are very "mild" or "moderate" or whatever we want to call it. If we're going to go by this assumption that all religious people are devout, we need to lock up a bunch of Americans as well for 'devoutly' believing in a book full of crazy, crazy shit as well.. With this assumption, all Americans must be clinically insane for literally believing in a talking snake! Of course, for the greater chuck of them, that isn't actually the case. They just kinda lazily identify as 'Christian' but they don't follow the text or rules at all. I'm willing to bet the same is true elsewhere.

hardcore_gamer said:

Yes, I am real. If somebody believes that women should be treated like animals, that gays should be thrown of buildings, and that killing your own familiy members is ok because they left the faith is ok, then those people are bad, regardless of if they support terrorists or not.

Again I'll say, if you think all Muslims believe this, you better also lock up 71% of the US population for literally believing that a dude could part a fucking sea.

vinnie245 said:

If that's a legitimate rule it's one of the dumbest rules ive ever heard.

Unless you want people to freely suicide whenever they want to =P .

hardcore_gamer said:

No, most muslims aren't bombing anybody. But that doesn't make them good people.

How many Muslims do you know?

hardcore_gamer said:

See, it's bullshit like this that is a good part of the reason for why parties like Front nationale are rising in the first place.

No, it's racist bullshit like the kind you're peddling that is the reason why far right parties are coming to power. Because you're literally posting far right extremist propaganda.

And yes, I do mean racist. Because for reference here's a map of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims:

And according to you all of those people are bad people.

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

So yes, calling them all terrorists is [wrong].

But yet, you can't say that they aren't all potential terrorists, because they all devoutly and unquestionably believe in a book that was dictated by God himself to Muhhamad that says that they must fight against the infidels.

What's this "potential terrorist" and "all devoutly and unquestioningly believe" nonsense? You do realise that these are actual people with actual minds you're talking about? They're not automatons. I mean surely, if you can understand that the KKK isn't representative of the majority of Christians, you can understand that ISIS isn't representative of the majority of Muslims?

Or maybe try the Bible or Qur'an game before you go cherrypicking verses from holy books.

Lol, if muslims were actually violent, there wouldn't be a 'west' left on the face of the earth. The muslims have ample reason as well.

In America, the military personnel is ~1.4 million, the muslim population is estimated to be between 2-7 million, so lets say ~4.5. If the muslims wanted to, they could take over the country and America would have no chance.

NATO has 7.3 million personnel, europe has 44 million muslims. Europe wouldn't stand even 1% of a chance if all muslims were violent. Even if only 1 million of them were going to fight and they were going to blow themsleves up, that would be enough to turn Europe into Fallout 4.

Uh, "ample reason"?

fraggle said:

How many Muslims do you know?

Every single one I've ever met IRL have been completely normal and kind people.

Doomkid said:

Uh, "ample reason"?

Yes, The west has done nothing but attack and damage the muslim nation for the last few centuries. The establishment of America itself came about as a result of the british trying to find a way to india without having to go through muslim lands, in an effort to undermine their position as middle man between europe and the far east trade routes.

Then you had numerous colonies all throughout muslim lands, you had the shitty dictatorships (later to be replaced with shitty versions of 'democracy') and lines drawn in the sand imposed on the muslims after WW2, you have the british putting the saudis in power, a family that everyone hates and has caused untold amounts of turmoil. You have the fact that every 'islamic terrorist group' in muslim lands is a western invention, whether its establishing the so called muslim brotherhood in egypt, al-qaeda and Taliban in the middle east and afghanistan, boko haram and al-shabab in somalia and the rest of east africa, murdering of good leaders, such as ghaddafi, numerous random bombings throughout the decades, upheaval in Iran, the gulf wars, the war on terror, and lets not forget the establishment of Israel.

Yes, the muslims have ample reason to hate the west. All the west has ever done is sought to disrupt everything from north africa, east africa, the middle east, eastern europe (with the help of the russians), arabia, and the region around afghanistan. The majority muslim places.

America since WW2 has yet to have even one year where they were not killing and bombing someone.

And it seems they can come from other country, one gunman was from Greece.

No doubt, it won't stop there. With even more people coming in, combined with unchecked refugee control, it is not going to end well in Europe...

Only people who really benefit from this situation are smugglers.

fraggle said:

What's this "potential terrorist" and "all devoutly and unquestioningly believe" nonsense? You do realise that these are actual people with actual minds you're talking about? They're not automatons. I mean surely, if you can understand that the KKK isn't representative of the majority of Christians, you can understand that ISIS isn't representative of the majority of Muslims?

Or maybe try the Bible or Qur'an game before you go cherrypicking verses from holy books.

At least in West, religious institutes don't have that much of power, compared to Middle East. If someone can figure a cure for brainwashing, maybe there would be relative peace in the world. Easy to fool a man... Hard to convince the man he has been fooled.

Mechazawa said:

America since WW2 has yet to have even one year where they were not killing and bombing someone.

Then we need to ask ourselves: Why we choose these people in these leading positions?

You elected these people into power who decide where and what to bomb.

fraggle said:

What's this "potential terrorist" and "all devoutly and unquestioningly believe" nonsense? You do realise that these are actual people with actual minds you're talking about? They're not automatons.

I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, but if one didn't believe these things, then what would be the point?

I confess that I don't know a single Muslim, but I know a lot of [Protestant] Christians. When they talk about biblical lore as if it were fact, I'm absolutely positive that they're not speaking metaphorically or poetically, and I don't doubt their sincerity. Is it so wrong to assume that a random Muslim would be equally sincere about their own beliefs?

DoomUK said:

I confess that I don't know a single Muslim, but I know a lot of [Protestant] Christians. When they talk about biblical lore as if it were fact, I'm absolutely positive that they're not speaking metaphorically or poetically, and I don't doubt their sincerity. Is it so wrong to assume that a random Muslim would be equally sincere about their own beliefs?

Sergeant_Mark_IV made a specific claim that I was responding to. I'll quote it again:

But yet, you can't say that they aren't all potential terrorists, because they all devoutly and unquestionably believe in a book that was dictated by God himself to Muhhamad that says that they must fight against the infidels.

The claim is that they all devoutly and unquestioningly believe that they must "fight infidels". All of them. Which is patently ridiculous. Obviously Muslim fundamentalists exist who will take their holy book literally, and the same is true of Christians as well. But to claim that every single one of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims thinks this way is simply not true.

fraggle said:

The claim is that they all devoutly and unquestioningly believe that they must "fight infidels". All of them. Which is patently ridiculous. Obviously Muslim fundamentalists exist who will take their holy book literally, and the same is true of Christians as well. But to claim that every single one of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims thinks this way is simply not true.

The passage(s) which state these things are somehow interpreted differently among the more 'moderate' believers, but I take it that they still treat the book on the whole with reverence. Clearly not all believers are fundamentalists, clearly they're not all psychotic mass murderers. But can we agree that once you start believing in this stuff, it's a slippery slope, especially given the brainwashing environment extremist groups such as ISIS have created for themselves.

Mechazawa said:

murdering of good leaders, such as ghaddafi

Really? Good leader gaddafi? That's where you're gonna go?

My Muslim cousin actually wants people to stop hunting because he think it's cruel to animals and that people can just buy their meat from the store.

fraggle said:

Sergeant_Mark_IV made a specific claim that I was responding to. I'll quote it again:
The claim is that they all devoutly and unquestioningly believe that they must "fight infidels". All of them. Which is patently ridiculous. Obviously Muslim fundamentalists exist who will take their holy book literally, and the same is true of Christians as well. But to claim that every single one of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims thinks this way is simply not true.

Most arabic states are muslims which is what ISIS should put in mind before torturing,killing them (Syria,Libya and Iraq are on the top of the list) , ISIS is just a bunch of people using their religion to cover their crimes , I remember they once tried to sell one of their Hostages on Internet =P .

To me, ISIS is nothing mire than a terrorist orginization made in the lie of "fighting a holy war against the infidels" and rather more along the lines of "We want MOAR power and MOAR stuffs!"

A crude analogy I know, but it's what I believe. They simply want their little fiefdoms and little seats of power, wanting to be the top dogs and this is how they go about it.

Because in my eyes, if you are willing to break your own religious texts writings to further your goals, you are not in a holy war, but a war for power and control

All the talks about it made me googlin it : http://www.ahmadiyya.org/islam/tolerance.htm

Clonehunter said:

My Muslim cousin actually wants people to stop hunting because he think it's cruel to animals and that people can just buy their meat from the store.

Lol seriously ? , If you don't, there won't be any meat to buy from store

fraggle said:

How many Muslims do you know?

How many nazis do you know? None? Then I guess you can't claim they are bad, since merely reading mein kampf doesn't give you an accurate idea of what they believe (sarcasm).

fraggle said:

No, it's racist bullshit like the kind you're peddling that is the reason why far right parties are coming to power. Because you're literally posting far right extremist propaganda.

And here we have a yet another example of what I was talking about. "Far-right extremist hurr dur".

fraggle said:

And yes, I do mean racist. Because for reference here's a map of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims:

And according to you all of those people are bad people.

fraggle said:

I mean surely, if you can understand that the KKK isn't representative of the majority of Christians, you can understand that ISIS isn't representative of the majority of Muslims?

I suggest you watch this video from Sargon, who in-spite of being a fairly left-wing person is rather different from other leftists in that he actually rejects modern PC and sees the muslims for what they are.

Clonehunter said:

My Muslim cousin actually wants people to stop hunting because he think it's cruel to animals and that people can just buy their meat from the store.

That is dumb, real dumb.

The food in the store could be considered to be obtained in a much more cruel way than hunting (which looks humane as fuck when compared to good old slaughter houses).

-

I for one don't like the muslim religion and I find its teachings both questionable and straight up retarded. Christianity and Judaism looks no fucking better either and a lot of shit in those faiths are sketchy as fuck or just barbaric... Basically fuck religion.

*tips fedora*

fraggle said:

And according to you all of those people are bad people.

Of course they're bad. Only atheists are good, because they don't have a book where you can find a phrase you can twist to call them all murderous fanatics. At least to my knowledge.

fraggle said:

And yes, I do mean racist

Except Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. A religion is a choice, at least for adults.

Scet said:

Except Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. A religion is a choice, at least for adults.

It’s a choice when you change your religion or your faith but it’s not a choice when you are born in a religious family or in religious countries without French laïcité.
Is it really a choice in the US if you are a Muslim or an atheist?
Is it really a choice in Saudi Arabia or in the IS Mafia-state?
Is it really a choice in Burma, in India, in Russia?

I don't know what you're really getting at. I put "for adults" because I realize there is religious indoctrination in families. I won't blame children for believing in fairy tales, but for adults I most certainly will.

As for those locations it might not always be a good idea to tell others your faith and it may be necessary to lie about what it really is. However internally it remains a choice.

Unlike religion, race is something that can't be changed, hence why it shouldn't be ridiculed. No one would say Atheism or Christianity were races, so why is it the reverse for Islam?

Quast said:

Really? Good leader gaddafi? That's where you're gonna go?

Um, yes. He was one of the best North Africa has ever seen. He gave folks free healthcare and education, gave away free houses, he brought the literacy rate up from from 7% to around 70%. When people got married they were given a free 2500 dollars. And much more.

He was killed because he was going to form a central bank of Africa.

CorSair said:

Then we need to ask ourselves: Why we choose these people in these leading positions?

You elected these people into power who decide where and what to bomb.

That is the flaw of democracy, you cannot do anything but be lead by who ever has the most resources to effect the voting. It is ironic even for those people who angerly believe Muslims are coming to Europe to make everything Islamic... so what if they are? It is a democracy, they have that right. If enough of them come, vote laws and leaders into power who favor Islamic motives, then good for them. That is what democracy is about, giving the masses what they want. If you don't like it and you dont have the voting power, then leave. You set up democracy as your standard for government, deal with the consequences of it.

^ Uhhh... sure thing, bro. I'm not going to lie, Gaddafi was most certainly better than the chaos currently rocking Libya, but he was a goddamn murderous despot. The way he was deposed was yet another failure of the West's interventionist global policy, but there will be no tears shed for the guy himself. Also a nice conspiracy touch to your assessment. This is literally the first time I hear about this central bank shit and I can tell you there was no way in hell it would even succeed if Gaddafi was fronting it, heh.

If you want to make a good point to your theory, pick someone credible like Mosaddegh. Assad has blood on his hands as well, but the worst thing the West could do would be to overthrow him and forget Syria again. At this point he needs to be allowed to defeat the IS, then made to hand over the power. He's still more a secular and progressive leader than whoever will follow him. The bad news is, that means accepting that Russia is right for once. Oh god, no way! Let's drag out this disgusting free-for-all breeding grounds for terrorism a few years more!

hardcore_gamer said:

And as usual, the sjw's of Doomworld fail to give any counter-arguments and thus resort to using childish personal attacks instead.

Do you SERIOUSLY wonder why people think the way they do about you?

SavageCorona said:

Do you SERIOUSLY wonder why people think the way they do about you?

Speak for yourself and your sjw friends. "People" don't have negative views of me, only the specific portion of them that hates me because I don't buy into their PC sjw crap.

Wow.

hardcore_gamer said:

"People" don't have negative views of me

I do.

hardcore_gamer said:

Sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw . "Sjw" sj'w sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw, sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw SJW sj'w sjw sjw sjw SJW sjw sjw.

tldr: sjw