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What defines Art?

#ZDoom log, cropped a bit:

[20:03] <pr1tchlet> Liam I am worried about you
[20:04] <Liam_the_Bard> why's that
[20:04] <darknation2> HORSE PENIS IS FUN
[20:04] <SoM> haha
[20:04] <pr1tchlet> you are into teh torture
[20:04] <pr1tchlet> your worse than kat
[20:04] <Liam_the_Bard> not into it as in into it into it, whacking off licking my lips into it
[20:04] <Liam_the_Bard> i just think he's a kickass artist
[20:05] <darknation2> is it art?
[20:05] <darknation2> Big question.
[20:05] <Quasar`> not exactly heheh
[20:05] <Liam_the_Bard> what is it if it isn't art
[20:06] <darknation2> Hmmm... depends on your defination of art
[20:06] <Liam_the_Bard> what's YOUR definition of art
[20:06] <darknation2> I'd say art was political
[20:06] <Liam_the_Bard> pff
[20:06] <darknation2> And always beautiful
[20:06] <Liam_the_Bard> art cant' always be beautiful
[20:06] <pr1tchlet> heh
[20:07] <Liam_the_Bard> well actually heh there's some uziga stuff that's quite beautiful imo
[20:07] <darknation2> Yeah... I think art should be interesting to look at I guess
[20:07] <Quasar`> just look at it :P
[20:08] <darknation2> What is the point in it?
[20:08] <Quasar`> I made it after the FTC made that stupid report about game companies "marketing violent games to children"
[20:09] * darknation2 is now known as darknation
[20:09] <Quasar`> it used to be on my page ehehe
[20:09] <darknation> no, I was refering to liams pics
[20:09] <darknation> heh
[20:09] <Liam_the_Bard> Well not all art has to have a cleancut purpose or point
[20:09] <Liam_the_Bard> Just make your own interpretation, it's pretty obvious he's trying to say something
[20:09] <darknation> Art has to have thought behind it
[20:10] <Liam_the_Bard> Well how much thought does, say, a doom texture have behind it?
[20:10] <Liam_the_Bard> You need spacebase textures, you make a spacebase texture
[20:10] <Liam_the_Bard> but it's still art
[20:10] <darknation> doom textures are not art
[20:10] <darknation> it's a picture.
[20:10] <Doom-Child> not intrinsically, but when arranged properly
[20:10] <Quasar`> blah
[20:10] <darknation> heh
[20:10] * Quasar` gets mad
[20:10] <Liam_the_Bard> this would be an interesting poll
[20:11] <darknation> WHat: "Are these pictures of mutilated girlies art?"
[20:11] <SoM> heh
[20:11] * Darkstalker has joined #zdoom
[20:11] <Quasar`> hehehe
[20:11] <Liam_the_Bard> I think they are
[20:11] <pr1tchlet> hmm
[20:11] <fragglet> aye
[20:11] <Liam_the_Bard> look at some of the 'non bleeding' versions, it's amazing the effort and detail he puts into his work
[20:12] * pr1tchlet goes to bed
[20:12] <darknation> As a former Student of Art (read as Dundee College) I have to say I find these images of low merit.
[20:12] <Liam_the_Bard> and if he does it because he thinks it's nifty to look at or if he's trying to say something, it's still art
[20:12] <Liam_the_Bard> yeah but you failed every class
[20:12] <Danarchy> ROFLMAO
[20:12] <darknation> No, that was a differnt course
[20:12] * pr1tchlet has quit IRC ("what is art? etc. etc. etc...")
[20:13] <Liam_the_Bard> alright I'm going to make a thread in EE about this
[20:13] <Liam_the_Bard> this is a good discussion topic
[20:13] <darknation> Maybe art means diffent things to differnet people.
[20:13] <Danarchy> no its not
[20:13] <Danarchy> wait
[20:13] <Danarchy> yes it is
[20:13] <darknation> heh
[20:13] <darknation> FLame on!
[20:13] <Doom-Child> for real, yo
[20:13] <Doom-Child> you're damning us all to suffer the opinions of idiots
[20:14] <Doom-Child> but isn't that what free expression is all about?

The question is, what does a drawing/sculpture/photograph/photoshop/whatever need to qualify as art, or what it is that separates 'low' art from 'high' art, or is there a universal standard to judge a work of art at all?

If you see someone's brains splattered across a railroad track and you decide to draw it because it's cool to look at, is your drawing art? Is it low art or high art or does it depend on who's looking at it? Are textures or models for games 'high' art? Could a crime scene photograph or a photograph of someone's front lawn be art?

Discuss.

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Who the Hell is Uziga?

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Darknation defines Art - Chapter 1

Example 1 - Pollock makes a mess on a page = art

Darknation projectile vomits onto the sidewalk = gross


Now, what seperates these two acts? The end result looks pretty much the same. But one is art and one is vomit. Why?

Pollock's creations are abstract representations of either emotions, feelings or visions. Darknation just had one too many beers last night. Therefore Art should represent something other than poor beer management.


Example 2 - Picasso draws women at weird right angles and deforms their bodies = art

Darknation can't draw a straight line because his crack-addled body convulses into fits of shaking at the smell of paper = crap


Why, when the result looks so similar, is one art and one crap?

Well, Picasso spent years studying previous african art and applying the same techniques to his paintings. The hacked up women in his pantings also have deep meaning linked to psyche and personalities of his sitters. Darknation just can't draw.

The difference here is the intent behind the work and how much thought went into it's production in the painter's head.


Modern Artist shits her bed and displays it at the Tate = art

Darknation shits in his girlfriend's bed and get's it rubbed in his face and soddomized roughly with a pair of curling tongs = whoops


Apparently years at an Art College allows you to call virtually anything 'art' as long as you can justify the thinking behind it.


Michaelangelo paints Cathedral with angels and stuff = Art

Darknation vandalises church wall with a spray can and book of obcenities = Burning in Hell for All Eternity


Art should have either religous or political point, even if it's point is to be pointless.

To be continued later...

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[Copyright 2000 Pete Abrams, used w/out permission]

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Riiight...anyway:

I believe art can be anything. Art, in a way, is the appearance of emotion in anything. If something gives you a feeling like happiness, sadness, or even a 'hey, thats pretty cool' kinda feeling, then its probably art.

Art can be found in nature, weather it being the intrecate systems within the human anatomy, the call of a bird, a warm pink sunset, or the symmetrical shape of a leaf.

Then there is also conventional art, such as sculptures, paintings, or photography. Art can be made to capture the beauty or grotesqueness of a person, object or lanndscape (realism). Or it could be used to interpret how such a thing appears in the artist's eyes (impressionism), or it could just be the expression of the artist's feelings (abstract).

Art can be auditory as well. Music is a great way to convey emotions to others. A slow, sad piece can darken one's mood. A happier, lighthearted piece could cheer a person up.

Also, there is experimental art. Some artists like to find new ways and methods of art. For example, the impressionists who dared to make paintings which were less than realistic (under much scorn). Or Andy Worhol who took photographs and converted them into mockeries of life and popular culture. Or Jimi Hendrix who showed us all the gret things you can do with a guitar. Or Kraftwerk, who showed us that electronic noises can be put together to make music. Or Frank Zappa who experimented personaly with many different types of music and combining them while poking fun of the way everyone lives their lives. Or Picasso, who decided that realistic porportions and angles aren't really neccesary in portraits. Or M.C. Escher who showed us just how freaky our visual perseption can be.

Basicaly, art can be almost anything.

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You really could consider a lot of things art or an art. George Carlin is comedian, but is he an artist? In a sense, yes he is. Words to him are like a painters pallete which he can string together a fantastic routine. He talks about a lot of stuff, mainly about society, the government, people and other bullshit. Could you consider the band KoRn artists? Yes, they use music to express feelings, wether it be rage, insecurity or insanity. A person took a copy painting of the Virgin Mother Mary and splattered it with cow dung. Some people consider this art. But how is this considered art? He did not even make the painting, he simply lobbed bovine shit at it. However, the person who made the painting I could consider an artist. A painting of the Virgin Mother Mary, mother to Jesus Christ, represents many emotions. Peace, tranquility, innocence, motherhood and other such feelings. Art comes in many different forms and can be done by anybody. Even stick figure drawings little kids create could be considered art, though you probably wouldn't see one hanging in a mueseum.

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Art is the intent. Face it: there is no way to define art from its form.

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bigbadgangsta said:

A person took a copy painting of the Virgin Mother Mary and splattered it with cow dung. Some people consider this art. But how is this considered art? He did not even make the painting, he simply lobbed bovine shit at it.


if you are talking about the painting that appeared in the sensation exibit in the brooklyn museum of art, then the guy did paint the figure of mary and he used elephant dung, not cow. and the contoversy over it was retarded. according to his african culture elephant guano is a symbol of fertility and renewal. the artist used that "medium", if you will, in most of his works. some people, including the former mayor of NYC, were to closed minded to see that it was not a desecration of mary but an way of honoring her. not many could see past that though and went to that exhibit just to see the one painting, not realizing that there were many fabulous works of art dispalyed along with it.

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Don't we have some beatnicks we can ask? =)

For me art can be everything. From a movie to a level in DOOM. From a picture to a piece of music.

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Art cannot be defined. Art is simply the act of a thing, the being of thing. The world is art, and everything thing you do is an art. Our lives are each an art.

Ohhh yeah. Cool Beads man.
*whips out the bongos and dark sunglasses*

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Time for that wonderful, all-purpose answer :

The quality of art depends on the personality of the viewer.

I can't stand half the shit in the Tate gallery. As for Mr. No-skin pictured above, i don't see that as art - interesting, yes - but not art.

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If you are pretentious you can be an artist.

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I hate those primary color paintings by that one guy. What a waste of space. Its like 'Yay...I can paint red, blue, and yellow rectagles'.

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Whatever is beautiful is considered as art.

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999cop said:

Whatever is beautiful is considered as art.

I know plenty of art that portrays things a normal person would find hideous (sp?) and revolting. Most of the art I like comes in that form aswell.

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If the thing I'm looking at is making me think of what it means, represents, shows, or how it relates to me I'll call it art.

Like that pic of the skinned guy above, I don't consider it art because there was nothing to it, there was nothing you could pick up from it. It was just your plain ol human model. Now if the thing had 3 dicks (which at first I thought it did) and a ball hanging from it's forhead I'd consider it art.

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Although it's not a model, that's why the guy thinks it's an art form, it's an actual human body, donated, then skinned.

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fodders said:

Although it's not a model, that's why the guy thinks it's an art form, it's an actual human body, donated, then skinned.

Then why does he take credit for it? He didn't design it. It's like me stealing the monalisa, taking off the frame and saying it's mine.

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Yes, like there is one body that is in a running position and all of its muscles are steaming out behind him to help emphasise the motion.

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the_Danarchist said:

Yes, like there is one body that is in a running position and all of its muscles are steaming out behind him to help emphasise the motion.

That's an example of something I wouldn't consider art. What's the point of it?

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What is the point in the Mona Lisa?

Ultimately all art is pretty useless.

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darknation said:

What is the point in the Mona Lisa?

Ultimately all art is pretty useless.

Well, actually no point to it. But it did make me wonder why the hell she has that dumbass look on her face. Everyone who sees it wants to know why in hell is she smilling like that, and yet no one can know for sure.

I don't think you can find something like that in the skinned dude, there's nothing that I can see that would make you think of what's going on or what happened outside of the scene you see. If there were clues or a reason to maybe why his skin isn't on him or some thing else that would make you think of what happened in the scene that you can't see, maybe then it would be considered art, atleast for me.

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