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I hope you won't fuck up...

I seriously hope you won't fuck up rockets and the BFG projectile. To whoever is doing it: Please! don't make crappy rockets like those in UT or halflife... And careful with the bfg too...

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The actual functionality won't be changed at all, just the graphics.

It won't even be called a BFG anymore because that's infringing on id's intellectual property, so who knows what it'll turn into.

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The philosophy is ... if you don't like it, submit a better one. :)

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Yup, if you're worried the rocket sprites won't meet your approval, why don't you do them before someone else does?

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Ok, well I've put them in, tell me what you think :)

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I did som cool(ish) rocket sprites a while back. I'll see if I can dig 'em out.

/Me looks through my hard drive and back-up CD's..........

Nope, I've lost them. Oh well.

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The beauty of this whole project is, that once we get the initial thing done, everyone can take it & make their own "distribution" to their own tastes. So how the first run looks isn't that big of a deal. They can rename it whatever they want, they can replace whatever they want. They can change stuff so it only works w/ zdoom or whatever.

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BTW, isn't http://freedoom.despayre.org:81/deutex/wads/freedoom.wad.gz supposed to be "WAD with everything that has been done till now"? It seems to be missing a LOT of sprites (POVDoom).

I know you guys aren't all enamored w/ Iikka's work, but it still represents a TON of work that will go a long way towards reaching the initial completion milestone, from which point we can then become "picky".

Believe me, I have some issues w/ some of the sprites, but I am holding my tongue until everything's in.

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I don't think he ever included the POVdoom sprites. They were just temporary fills. I think they are good in their own way, but they don't suit a TC designed to be close(ish) to the original game in style and theme.

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I don't think he ever included the POVdoom sprites. They were just temporary fills. I think they are good in their own way, but they don't suit a TC designed to be close(ish) to the original game in style and theme.

Freedoom isn't a TC. And FWIW, all the resources could be considered "temporary fills", since we are:

first: trying to replace everything to make a completely open iwad. We are currently in this phase, & the standing policy is to not make any duplicates until everything has been done.

then: go back & replace stuff to suit our more picky tastes. It's at this phase that POVDoom sprites could be replaced. It's also at this point that individuals could just go ahead & make their own "distributions" of the base FreeDoom, unfettered by groupmind.

To this end, I think we should use what we can get, or else we will be prolonging the process big time, which hardly seems expedient.

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captmellow: Actually, Freedoom IS a TC. In fact, by the time it's finished it will have replaced more things in the .wad than any previous Doom TC.

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The BFG type gun IMO should be called the "Hasta Gun" as in Hasta La Vista. Heh.

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captmellow: Actually, Freedoom IS a TC. In fact, by the time it's finished it will have replaced more things in the .wad than any previous Doom TC.


Well, I usually don't wrangle over semantics like this, but I think that TC's are approached differently than Freedoom.

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probably the only true TC :)

but mellow is right, the POVDoom sprites should be included by policy.

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Total, meaning "all", and conversion, meaning "change". Together, we have "all changed". And I am pretty sure that FreeDOOM's goal is to changed ALL of the game.

Well, then you could also say that all games based on engines like Doom or Quake are TCs for the games.

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Personally I think things should only be included if they actually look/sound good (voted on by everyone of course) rather than because they happen to be there.

Besides, the POVDoom sprites weren't actually submitted, where they?

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Personally I think things should only be included if they actually look/sound good (voted on by everyone of course) rather than because they happen to be there.

Besides, the POVDoom sprites weren't actually submitted, where they?


"This is a very large project, and so a lot of effort will be needed to
complete it. If you can contribute anything, no matter how small, it
will be greatly appreciated."

Nick, if everything has to be voted on, this thing is going to go the way of OGRE. Also, I don't understand why you think the POVDoom sprites weren't submitted. How do you think they got in =there?

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1) You seem to think that the aim of freedoom is just to replace everything in Doom with alternatives. I don't think this is the case.

If Freedoom, or even a part of it, ends up looking like a pile of crap, or has totally inappropriate graphics/sounds/music/etc ( as is the case with the POVDoom sprites), no-one is go to play it, are they?

2) The POVDoom sprites weren't submitted, they were just put there as a temporary measure by fraggle himself. Are these sprites even public domain? If not, there is no way that they can be used.

If you still want to count these sprites as "submitted" though, I'm sure you'll agree that anyone who's submitted something should be free to retract it if they for some reason decide that they no longer want it there; fraggle's doing exactly this.

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1) You seem to think that the aim of freedoom is just to replace everything in Doom with alternatives. I don't think this is the case.

If Freedoom, or even a part of it, ends up looking like a pile of crap, or has totally inappropriate graphics/sounds/music/etc ( as is the case with the POVDoom sprites), no-one is go to play it, are they?


I don't know about that . . . the aim of FreeDoom is take create an open iwad which allows people to play various source ports without the retail iwad. It serves a very utilitarian function, a means to an end if you will. You don't seem to be demonstrating an understanding of this. & as for what is what you deem to be appropriate, I happen to think the POVDoom sprites are pretty hilarious & well-done. AND they represent a TON of work already done, & IMO it would be inexpedient to not use them. But it doesn't matter if you guys decide to eschew Iikka's work & make everything from scratch, because then I will simply release my own distribution w/ POVDoom sprites, & far sooner than would otherwise be done. That's the beauty of open source, eh?

2) The POVDoom sprites weren't submitted, they were just put there as a temporary measure by fraggle himself. Are these sprites even public domain? If not, there is no way that they can be used.

Sure, go ahead... that sounds interesting and cool... It's been about seven years since I wrote that .txt anyway :) Just remember to include me in the credits ;p

Iikka

At 10:47 PM 06/25/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Fingers, I am looking for resources to include in an
>open source iwad for the Doom community. I would like
>to include your monster sprites from POVDoom. I read
>your notice re: NOT allowing people to make a new wad
>in the POVDoom txt, but I was wondering if you would
>reconsider since Doom is now open source, & the
>community has many open source ports of the exe. An
>open source iwad would be the next step for the
>community to take.
>

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I just remembered another problem with the POVDoom sprites, and this one's a biggie.

Some (but not all) of the sprites are recreations of the enemies they replace, right? According to Carmack, Freedoom is NOT allowed to have recreations of the enemies.

Therefore POVDoom's Imp, Spider Boss and possibly others would not be able to be used legally.

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Hey! Stop Squabbling. Some people are in this project for than a 'utilitarian function'. I think that the people who are doing the levels and the Textures are doing it to make a good TC. They aren't making levels just because they need to be done.

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No problem. I'm done squabbling. Let's just hurry w/ those sfx/midis/textures/non-monster sprites.

Then, take your t i m e w/ those monster sprites & levels. Get them perrrrfect.

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nick: until we have some kind of fair system for votes its unfair to do any voting at all.

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