Medikits shouldn't use the Red Cross emblem

I vote:
Medkit: White cross on dull red
Stimpack: White cross on green (because it is military issue)
Berserk: Red fist on black (with tiny white cross somewhere) (because it is military experimental special ops stuff) that only has heath gain as side effect.

I do not like any of the "glowing" colors.
These things are not that hard to find, and want to avoid the strange unrealistic glowing objects that some of the console games use.

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d1337r said:
Because most of the medkits I've seen usually have white-on-red as the color scheme.

Aside from Johnson & Johnson and Red Cross products, a good number are all red, some are all green, a few all blue but generally not white with a red square around a white cross, which makes one think of a "Swiss Healing Pack" in the tradition of the "Swiss Army Knife"...

Interestingly, first aid cabinets seem to use the green marker a lot:

http://medstore.net/?page_id=6&category=20
http://www.healthandsafetyboards.com/First_Aid_Cabinet.htm
http://www.speedystationery.com.au/canteen-janitorial-zzt-ohs/occupational-health-zzt-safety/safety-products/celco-first-aid-cabinet-315-x-360-x-100mm.html
http://www.viamart.co.uk/cabinets/first_aid_cabinets/first_aid_storage_cabinets.html

But remember, Freedoom is an abstract and somewhat alien looking game, so realistic items aren't mandatory. The neat thing about the green symbol, and why I posted it earlier, is that it's a formal first aid marker, and thus informs the player in a clear and simple way.

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myk said:

But remember, Freedoom is an abstract and somewhat alien looking game, so realistic items aren't mandatory. The neat thing about the green symbol, and why I posted it earlier, is that it's a formal first aid marker, and thus informs the player in a clear and simple way.

It may be formal in real life, but red is the standard that I have seen in video games. Freedoom isn't real life, it's a game. This, combined with the fact that it was already red to begin with, is why I think it should be red.

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Sodaholic said:
It may be formal in real life, but red is the standard that I have seen in video games.

You put it as if a "real life symbol" were confusing to a video game player. We can only hope us video game players aren't that far gone yet! What I mean is that it's just a symbol that means "first aid", identifiable by anyone, like the red, blue and white stars-and-stripes flag represents the United States.

This, combined with the fact that it was already red to begin with, is why I think it should be red.

That was said earlier and I ignored it consciously when I posted about the green symbol because it's an unnecessary derivative approach. Anything that doesn't need to be the same as in the original game can be different and should find a style of its own merging with the rest in a unique manner. You need a "medikit" due to the pickup string but it doesn't have to look like DOOM's. Otherwise, detail by detail, Freedoom will incidentally come out looking like a rough imitation and people will say "ah this looks kinda like DOOM, how uncreative... might as well go play the original, instead."

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Actually, what's wrong with the current (v0.7) berzerk pack? It has a red cross on black, next to a "B". It's different enough that you can't mistake it for stimpack or medikit.

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hex11 said:

Actually, what's wrong with the current (v0.7) berzerk pack? It has a red cross on black, next to a "B". It's different enough that you can't mistake it for stimpack or medikit.

Because it looks like crap, quite frankly. Seriously, it looks like a placeholder that was thrown together in 5 minutes in MSPaint.

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I vote: *Red cross (medikit and stimpack) Red cross (berserk)

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Catoptromancy said:

http://i.imgur.com/I3VH6.png
I still like this one best.

Agreed. The green for the health items looks better and is more distinctive than the alternatives. It's also nice that it diverges a tad from Doom's sprites, while still retaining recognizability as medical supplies. The red on the berserk goes best with the black, and I think the fist graphics look kind of silly.

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Is anyone else putting these sprites in the game and trying them out that way?

I don't think you can get a good impression just from images in forum posts.

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RjY said:

Is anyone else putting these sprites in the game and trying them out that way?

I don't think you can get a good impression just from images in forum posts.

Actually, I already have, but I didn't bother taking screenshots. I'll do that now, then.


I'm thinking that the red should be brightened up a bit for the medikit and stimpack, seems a little dark.


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Those three in the back look pretty good.

Actually the red medikit is good too. Maybe this would work:
- green stimpack
- red medikit
- berzerker pack with white cross on red

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Doom is still better than those console games with the glowing objects.
Let us not degrade FreeDoom according to what those console games do.
I you want to compare with something, look at one of the realistic war simulations, as those are the closest.

The Medkits should not "glow" or even be easy to see.
I much prefer more realistic looking objects over "game look" objects.

There seems to be some agreement on the berserker pack being black.
I think the old version looked very good, it is only the symbol that is being questioned.
It is big enough that it could have two small symbols, like a red warning triangle and a white cross combined (maybe overlapping slightly).

Beserker pack: Black with white cross on dark red warning triangle.
It would be simple enough to recognize (not all that fine detail that the fist had). Distinctive. Has a warning. And would be dark enough that would fit in with special military origins.

Found out last night that the mailed fist (upright, in silver on black) was the symbol for the SS Panzer grenadiers. Probably want to avoid looking in any way similar.

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Heh, I cut myself today and couldn't find any bandages so went and got the first aid kit in my truck. It's Johnson & Johnson model #8161, and has a red cross on blue, like this:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwm_FDa6s7nDr7pr9NwSkNhx1JHcGI44MWpBvo8nWw5vJM51PyGtXV1w

But it looks like lots of places are also selling the red cross on white style:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpBOaIXUo1XjuXSBpPbVsD4eKjY_bnjmVsT2reL5sI3LakrOYzrU7k8ts

And of course there's other variations, like the green one mentioned earlier. So I don't think you're going to be able to model reality since there's no real standard. I say just go with whatever looks best in Doom's palette. I do think the kits should stand out a bit though, because the official id versions are white and thus easy to spot (except berzerker pack).

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wesleyjohnson said:

Doom is still better than those console games with the glowing objects.
Let us not degrade FreeDoom according to what those console games do.
I you want to compare with something, look at one of the realistic war simulations, as those are the closest.

What do consoles have anything to do with this? Plenty of PC games do this too, it has nothing to do with what platform it's on. Also, last I checked, Doom isn't anything like CoD. We shouldn't bother with trying to make a "realistic war sim", because this isn't. Doom was never realistic.

wesleyjohnson said:
The Medkits should not "glow" or even be easy to see.
I much prefer more realistic looking objects over "game look" objects[/B]

Why should medikits not be easy to see? That's a bad idea, they are vital items in the game and should be easily noticeable. Again, just because it may be hard to find a medikit in real life, does NOT mean it should be that way in an arcade-like action shooter.

I am completely against sacrificing vital design just to make it "realistic". I must ask: does anything in FreeDoom look realistic? No, so the objects must not go against the established style.

hex11 said:

I say just go with whatever looks best in Doom's palette. I do think the kits should stand out a bit though, because the official id versions are white and thus easy to spot (except berzerker pack)

QFT

This is exactly what I am saying, just go with what looks good. I think red looks best, because it is the color that is already established for health in this game in the first place.

I also happen to think that red visually looks the best, green just looks wrong.

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I like the green, personally. It's unique and I think it goes well with the Freedoom aesthetics.

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Sodaholic said:

I also happen to think that red visually looks the best, green just looks wrong.

Anything significantly different from the original game, you think looks wrong :-P

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