Which midis do you like or dislike and why

First off let me say thank you to everyone who submitted a midi to the FreeDoom project. Your support and hard work is very much appreceatied.

(I can't spell...) :)

Anyway here's my question...

Which of the midis do you like and/or hate and why.

Since Fraggle seems to think some of these suck, I figured I'd take some initiative and see what everyone else thniks.

I did look around and didn't see any post about this, so if there is I apologize in advance.


D_RUNNIN: Yowza! Very Doom2-ish. I like it alot. I got the same feeling from this song, like when I heard doom2 map01 the first time.

D_STALKS: Also very good. Very close the orginal doom2 song. Thumbs up here!

D_COUNTD: Very good. Not quite what I excepted for a map03 map. (I'm doing map03 btw) Personally, I like to have a song that fits the map and vice-versa. Other than that, right on!

D_BETWEE: Once again very close to the orginal doom2 song. Good song.

D_DOOM: Finally some thing more orginal. Very fitting for a doom map. Sounds like some that AV might have used. Excellent.

D_THE_DA: Its upbeat, its funky, its fresh, I like it! I'm a little if'y about it fitting the current map, but it seems to work fot the moment. I hope the map itself get more refined to fit the tempo of the song. but hey it works and it works good!

D_Shawn: Very, very fitting of the map. The intense fighting really goes well with one. I hope this one stays in.

D_DDTBLU: Interesting. It seems a little too calm and relaxing, but then again the map isn't completed yet, so I can compare how they will mix. But the song itself is good. It reminds me of the music in map20 of AV. I hope the map fits it if this song makes it in.

D_IN_CIT: I like it, but since I'm doing map09, I kinda was wishing for somthing more upbeat like in doom2 map09 song.
I may have to adjust my thinking of the map to this song, but other than that minor quibble, its a good song.

D_DEAD: At first I thought this song was E1M5 of Doom1, but then it got much different. The middle part reminds me of map01 in AV which also kinda reminds me of Lemmings (don't ask). Good stuff. I hope it stays in.

D_STLKS2: Dark and foreboding, the way I like it. Thumbs up!

D_THEDA2: A good song, however the songs are starting to get a little monotonous. I'' have to wait on the map to see how it fits.

D_DOOM2: A nice song but again the slowness of the recent songs is getting old. Nice beat later on i will admit.

D_DDTBL2: A song I don't like that much! It's ok but quite repetitive after awhile. I kept think when will it end.

D_RUNNI2: At first I'm like WTF, then the weird phasing type sounds shows up and I'm like kick ass! Still too many slow songs in a row, but this one gets way better. I say cut the Beethoven wannabe begining and it's all good.

D_DEAD2: I'm getting bored. WHERE"S THE FAST SONGS? ahem...
Anyway, This one seems inspired by the orginal map09 song, and a little off tume aswell. Eh, it could use replacing.

D_STLKS3: Finally something more upbeat! I had to turn down my headphones on the guitar solo part. Quick, blood pumping, and a tad too short. Needs more but still very yummy!

D_Romero: Ah the map18 clone! ;) A very fitting replacement I belive.
Close to the orginal and thats good since the orginal is my personal favorite Doom2 song. Zang!

D_SHAWN2: Starts off medium paced then slows down bit then picks up again. I really like the piano throught the song.

D_MESSAG: Close to the orginal again, a nice alturnative aswell. Good song again.

D_COUNT2: Hmm.. This intro sounds very NIN-like. It sounds nice but not for a Nirvana-type map. Feh.

D_DDTBL2: The beginning reminds me of the CastleVania 3 intro for some reason. It doesn't really sound like Doom material. A decent song but chuck it.

D_AMPIE: Nope. I don't like. Kinda close the orginal, but lacking somewhat. Could be better if it didn't get so repetitive.

D_THEDA3: heh I like the skippy part toward the middle. Not bad. I'd replace it though.

D_ADRIAN: Gets better as you listen to it belive. A decent bloodfalls replacement. It does get a little repetitive again but oh well..

D_MESSG2: Nice japanesque intro, I hear a little GothicDM1/2 in there too. But still repetitive again. A fade out! Neat.

D_ROMER2: Not quite what I would be a mines type level song replacement but it has its moments. Decent, but I'd still go for something else.

D_TENSE: I like the flutes floating about, and the drum adds some "tenseness" to it. But over all, too mellow for a Spirit World type map.

D_SHAWN3: ugh... I was wondering when the music was going to start and when the pain would stop on this one. Far to ambiant and soft for the next to last level.

D_OPENIN: Oh yeah baby! You gotta like that intro beat. Very different than the orginal song, but I can see this as the final song. I would be hurt if it got replaced either. Overall, it's swell! ;)

D_EVIL: Wolfenstein meets heretic is the impression I got from this one. A good replacement. I like.

D_ULTIMA: Hmm sounds like a Commander Keen reject. Interesting. I would what map would got with this. Nice beat later on. Good song.

D_READ_M: Freaky! Could be replaced, but I like it.

D_DM2TTL: um replace this please.

D_DM2INT: Lovely, leave it in please!

Anyways thats my review of the FreeDoom music so far. I think there's to many slow and repetitive songs, but on the whole all were good, except the title. (Sorry)

I listened to the songs using WinTex since a few of them were overlaping themselves when they played. The first song did this quite and bit on Legacy. I've memento mori 1 and 2 do this as well. Any ideas on that?

Some of them also started have weird instruments like thunder claps, turntable scratches and car engines play instead of the normal notes, mostly on song 2. I have a SB Live! Value and I'm using rhe 2mb, 4mb, and 8mb, soundfonts that came with it, so maybe that might explain that.

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who submitted a midi, and hope we can get this project chugging along smoothly again.

As for the midi review, I'd like to quote Dennis Miller and say..

"But thats only my opinion, I could be wrong."

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sgtcrispy said:

D_STALKS: Also very good. Very close the orginal doom2 song. Thumbs up here!


I can't remember D_STALKS off the top of my head, but the fact that so many of the songs are very close to the originals is what makes them poor in my eyes (ears?) - especially D_RUNNIN.

I like the map16 music (D_EVIL or something?) because its good, yet not just a rip-off of the originals. Sounds vaguely hexeny. (but not a hexen ripoff! heh, if you see what I mean)

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The song I have here are in the order of 1-32, the intermission screen, title screen, and between levels.

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Jon said:

I can't remember D_STALKS off the top of my head, but the fact that so many of the songs are very close to the originals is what makes them poor in my eyes (ears?) - especially D_RUNNIN.

I agree. They are very good but disturbingly close to the originals. I'd much prefer if they were different. Remember, we're supposed to be creating something original - Carmack explicitely said we cant copy anything.

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I would have to agree that I don't like any of the midis that are just rip-offs of the original Doom music. There are two problems: They are totally uncreative and too close to the originals, and plus, they really don't even sound that great. Most sound like an exact copy of the original with every other note taken out. It's irritating to my poor ears to hear Doom's music so butchered. Personally, I think we can really turn up the kick-ass factor by having 32 completely original totally awesome songs. By they way, I happen to like the music from map24 to map29 the best, especially map24, but I have a complaint about map26: It starts out good, but then it just repeats itself over and over again. It needs a lot more depth, but I like how it sounds until it starts repeating.

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fraggle said:

I agree. They are very good but disturbingly close to the originals. I'd much prefer if they were different. Remember, we're supposed to be creating something original - Carmack explicitely said we cant copy anything.


that is rediculous. if the music is problematic, explain how the textures and flats are ok; 99% of which look exactly like the originals for 10 feet away.

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Nobody said that those textures are not problematic.

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Yeah we've had arguments about them before too. The problem with textures is, they have to be the same colours and dimensions as the originals so that used in the originals' context they work ok. Music on the other hand has no such restrictions.

The similarity of the textures can be disguised somewhat in how they are used in the levels.

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The songs are quite obviously different from the Doom / Doom 2 songs. And lest we forget, Bobby Prince did "cover" a shitload of metal songs, so don't put too much emphasis on having to sound totally original.

Plus at the moment I think that making sprites is a little more important than making better music. How many people don't even listen to the music when they're playing? I have mine turned off.

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I turn mine off too. I don't know if the people making music would necessarily make sprites otherwise, I know I couldn't possibly do music for example but I could do some sprites (or reinstate my old ones, cough cough)

Bah I should get e1m8 done

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Heh, I usually listen to my Winamp playlist while playing Doom.

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esayeek said:

that is rediculous. if the music is problematic, explain how the textures and flats are ok; 99% of which look exactly like the originals for 10 feet away.

Some of the textures ARE problems; look at some of the current door textures. In any case, regardless of the legal standpoint, it would be nice if freedoom could be an original work and not simply a straight copy of the original.

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That's a good point, fraggle, I agree with you about being original. That's what bugs me about the midis that are blatant rip-offs of Doom music. I think that part of the reason Freedoom is so cool is that it's all new, so even if you've been playing Doom for years, there are still some surprises. I actually play Doom with the Freedoom resources much more than I play regular Doom, because it makes everything feel new, like back when I first discovered Doom. I think we should just try to focus more on making the project unique than worry about the legal aspect of it. Even if making clones of everything were legal, is that what we want?

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I think the music should be made to the replacement levels really, rather than beforehand. You can get an idea of the atmosphere better. E.g., e2m8's music and e1m8's music are clearly tuned to the respective levels in the original. At least I think so :)

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umm, where can i listen to these?

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I think that after all the Doom2 wads are finished we need to do a bit of renaming/rearranging of the tracks so they get the level that they would complement mostly.

My favourite by far is the excellent moody track D_ROMER2 (map27) it is so nicely melancholic. Please don't remove that one, but make sure it gets the right level (ie. not a straight face slugfest level).

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Jon said:

I like the map16 music (D_EVIL or something?) because its good, yet not just a rip-off of the originals. Sounds vaguely hexeny. (but not a hexen ripoff! heh, if you see what I mean)


I'm afraid I have to take that back- it starts off good then decends into doom-ripoff mode :/ Perhaps portions of the midis can be used, or they can be remixed to suit?

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hmm id say we could use different mids they dont have to be "doomish" anything that catches anyones ear

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Crispy: The songs you said you weren't sure would fit in the map were mostly mine. I didn't play the maps through and fit the midis accordingly, as I knew the maps would probably be different in play and feel. I just made some songs that would be fitting for various types of maps.

D_DM2TTL: um replace this please.

um no
;)

TTL is my pride and joy!
Heh, otherwise the reviews are flattering.

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Here I critique some of the FreeDoom musics, in no particular order.

D_DOOM: Oh yes, I like it. Not totally sure how well it will fit with gameplay though.

D_STLKS2: Oh yeah baby. Good stuff for a big, dark, evil level. This one should definately be used.

D_DDTBLU: It's ok as a song in its own right, but as FPS music it's just totally WRONG. The feeling of it is so opposed to the "kill-'em-fast" feeling of FPS that it destroys the experience. If you HAVE to use this, then at least make it the intermission music or something, and not in a level. Gets my number one vote of song which should be axed from the project.

D_ROMER2: Uh, what the hell. I'm not totally sure what to make of this one. It could make great intermission music, for levels... I dunno, might work on the right map. It has its faults but also its good points.

D_DOOM2: Ugh. I don't think this could work all that well.

D_IN_CIT: Feels very lonely, it would have to be used on the right level, but if placed well it could be really great.

D_THE_DA: A bit annoying but might still work. I'd be careful of this one.

D_COUNTD: This could work well, on the right level. However, I have to say that it sounds far more like an RPG than an FPS to me.

D_DM2TTL: The title screens music of Doom and Doom 2 were garbage. This at least is some sort of music, could be better though.

D_STLKS3: Yeah, this is one of the better ones. Sounds to me like it would fit well in a level that's themed as caves or mountains.

D_SHAWN: Good stuff, right for a boss fight. I do get that RPG feel again here, but not so much as on D_COUNTD.

D_RUNNIN, D_STALKS, D_BETWEE, D_DEAD2, D_AMPIE, D_EVIL: I like all of these remixes a lot, but I agree that they shouldn't go into FreeDoom. (I don't think there was any other remix? Hope I didn't miss any.)

As a reference note (so you can see my taste in Doom music), songs from the original Doom and Doom 2 that I think are particularly good are the following: D_E1M5, D_E1M8, D_E2M3, D_E2M6, D_E2M7, D_VICTOR, D_ADRIAN, D_OPENIN, D_EVIL

(That's all for now. I'll be back if I come up with more.)

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D_RUNNIN, D_STALKS, D_BETWEE, D_DEAD2, D_AMPIE, D_EVIL: I like all of these remixes a lot, but I agree that they shouldn't go into FreeDoom.

All of these sound a hell of a lot less like the original songs than Bobby Prince's 'covers' do.

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Well, IMHO, I don't like any of the midis, then again, I don't like any of the Doom2 music-too generic, IMO.

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Let's not also forget that there are remixes of Doom 2 songs in commercial games. Descent 2 has something like three D_RUNNIN remixes for example.

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