[WIP] Hardweps

3 maps, MAP01-MAP03... MAP03 still needs some tweaking.

Download link: http://ifocserv.net/ftp/Random/HardWeps_r3.2.wad (817K)

I highly recommend using this dehacked patch I made with this wad. It makes the revenant tracer sprites look like a late stage imp fireball, which not only looks better in my opinion but allows you to see which fireballs are tracking you from the front

http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/Random/rfirebll.deh

MAP01/MAP02 screenshots:



Dehacked Patch Screenshots


Note that it is ONLY necessary to load this file separately if you are playing in vanilla doom, it is included in hardweps_r3.wad, so Boom and above will have it applied automatically.

NOTE: there are no weapon changes in this wad. I'm not great with naming, I called it "Hardweps" because I was thinking "the weapon selection makes it hard [in MAP01]"






I'd really like to hear your feedback on this and see your demos of this if you decide to play it.

UV is intended to be barely possible.
The other skills are implemented too, HMP and HNTR are decent difficulties for just getting through the maps.


Credits to freedoom for Ultimate Doom only textures.

fdas: http://www.mediafire.com/?a7xbvli3zvsgz9t http://www.mediafire.com/?rq1kv48auy0ujr6

a bit of a cramped rng-fest, I kinda liked it though, nice and mean :) . I'd be a bit more encouraged to play these sorts of things if they were less linear, I have too little patience for redoing early parts so I usually just quit if I die far enough along :p

Repeating the same sections over and over again is a problem, I agree.

Probably since I'm new to single player mapping, I'm not really sure how to keep up the same level of difficulty without requiring that sort of repetition, or exactly what I did to require that.
Whatever it is, I really want to get away from maps that take a thousand replays to beat.

Maybe I can keep the close quarters, high pressure combat while still having it be doable without memorizing the whole map. The first room of MAP02 is a particularly nasty example of something you have to memorize (it's great when you manage to get out, but it's all luck and playing it a thousand times), but I'm concerned that MAP01 may have some of that too.

I like the idea of adding more alternate paths, so you don't get bored trying to master the same thing, and you can pick whichever (equally hard) path you want.

I sort of did that with the red and white teleporters in MAP02, you can do either one first, but you have to do both of them.

Thanks for giving it a try, if you have any other suggestions, don't hesitate to reply.

I like these.
5:07 uvmax on 1:
http://filesmelt.com/dl/hardweps-01-cl9-507-uvmax.lmp

That's a nice run there!

I've never seen anyone do what you did in that lift room before (killing the fatso and riding the lift up); quite creative, nice work.

That's also the first time I've seen anybody but me make use of the option to leave one of the doors shut; it does help against that arch vile, heh.

I'm glad you like them; do you have any suggestions on how I could make them better?

Also, how are you doing with MAP02?

This is my route for 2, died on the last enemy I think, but close enough:
http://filesmelt.com/dl/hardweps-02-fail-uvmax.lmp

On 1 I rode the lift up because the stairs take awhile to build so probably faster to build them while fighting. It also helps to know to walk into the building stairs because that apparently triggers another thing that takes awhile to build (lift).

I don't really have any specific suggestions.
Oh yeah, one of the revs near the crusher is stuck behind a wall/ can't kill I think.

I've been working on MAP03, it's rather nice so far -- I've been trying to make it just as difficult without requiring as much memorization, right now it might be too easy. I'll fix that, though.

I'm thinking of making this map pack boom compatible instead of vanilla, though it's really only because of some cosmetic ceiling lights in this map causing visplane overflows, and a strange switch bug that I can't identify, so it wouldn't be hard to make it vanilla compatible.

If you prefer vanilla over Boom, let me know. I think the ceiling lights add to the map, but then again, I can probably work around the limitation if people want something vanilla compatible.

I prefer mapping (more line trigger options) and playing (no all ghosts bug) in boom, but that's just me.
What's the switch bug? My guess is any switch line won't trigger if there's an action line right in front of it (spacebar will trigger the closest action line only which isn't the switch if its further away with another action line in front, even a scrolling line).

"My guess is any switch line won't trigger if there's an action line right in front of it"

That's not it, I know about that one



I have a floor lower action on a switch, that lowers tag 1 to lowest, I hit use on it and nothing happens (DSNOWAY does not play). If I hit the switch in Boom, it works perfectly.

The only thing I can think of that would be causing it is that tag 1 has been given to four sectors, three of which are different heights and all four have different floor textures.

[not sure how to refer to merged map geometry]

the first merged sector has seven "squares" in it, the second merged sector has four rectangles in it, the third merged sector has six squares in it, and the fourth merged sector has just one rectangle in it.

Does vanilla doom have a problem with moving sectors of different heights with the same tag? What about moving multiple sets of merged sectors?

I don't know what's causing that, and might still not know if I had the actual wad to study. Maybe do an experiment without saving and delete all tag 1 stuff except one sector, and see if it still does it.

Actually the sector bug was my dumb mistake, when I started this map I accidentally started it in Boom format instead of Doom 2. I was using a Boom only linedef action.

So now the only issue is what's more important, some extra detailing or vanilla compatibility.

So far, these are fun and very challenging. The texturing is nice too, reminding me of NERVE.wad at some points.

Vanilla Demos: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ddofko6cu5u6uf2/hardwep_demos.zip

Map01 required you to be very tactical - every rocket counts. When you get the calculation right though, this map is very rewarding. An extra stimpack or 2 couldn't hurt, but that's down to player error really.

Map02, I have a HELL of a time even getting past the first room. Gotta take down that Archie quick, or he'll ruin your day!

Map03 is coming along nicely. There's an archie here, and you'll see in the demos - He must be a fucking beast, 3 rockets AND and ssg shot right to the face, and he still lived to blow me the hell up. What a dick. I wasn't able to get past the 2 changunnners and 2 archies, I just didn't enough ammo.

Overall I'm really liking these, keep up the nice work - Very tough, but not to the point of being unfair!

Glad to hear you're liking it so far!

Note: the wad he's referring to is r3; MAP03 is a little unpolished (if you play this on Vanilla Doom, note that you MAY experience rare visplane overflows!)

The other significant change from r2 is that the start room of MAP02 has been tweaked to make it a little easier.

http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/Random/HardWeps_r3.wad

EDIT: I highly recommend using this dehacked patch I made with this wad. It makes the revenant tracer sprites look like a late stage imp fireball, which not only looks better but allows you to see which fireballs are tracking you from the front

http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/Random/rfirebll.deh

Screenshots


Note that it is ONLY necessary to load this file separately if you are playing in vanilla doom, it is included in the wad, so Boom and above will have it applied automatically.

EDIT2:
just got a chance to watch the demos

MAP02: I think the white teleporter might be harder than the red teleporter, I think I should add at least a shell in addition to the chaingun, or possibly a couple of clips? you're at a disadvantage now because I took out a few zombies since r2, I'll adjust that for r4

MAP03: You did really well against the initial arch-vile, I would highly recommend NOT triggering the second one until you have full health (that medkit outside of the switch is usually pretty necessary before hitting that switch). Maybe I should add another medkit near the switch?

I added 2 extra rockets and a medikit to the double revenant room near the yellow key, I was thinking that it would be good for the player to be forced to storm in (I was trying to discourage the player from doing what you were doing, hitting the switch and running back, that's why I had the arch vile / chaingunner combo there), hopefully the additional health and ammo will make players more willing to take that risk.

Sorry, I usually don't bump, but has anybody other than these three guys played it?

I've been sort of considering changing the texture set to something more like Aliens, do you guys prefer wads that add a bunch of new texutres/don't look like Doom 2? Maybe the screenshots are boring?

Good work. hope to see more of your maps in the future!

You were right about the difficulty levels. I started out playing these on UV, then was like "lol no" after getting massacred by monsters in every direction in the acid area on MAP01. HMP is also pretty hard, though not unfairly so...at least not entirely. MAP01 was tough but doable; unfortunately, though I got near the ends of maps 2 and 3, I eventually quit when I ran out of patience and also ammo. These definitely force you to use every bullet and every rocket with care, which is pretty exciting but also kind of frustrating when I find myself pitted against two hell knights and a fuckton of lost souls with nothing but 2 rockets left to my name.

The maps are short, but given their brutality they really couldn't be much longer, so good job with that. I like how stuff continually opens up as the map progresses. I also think you did a good job connecting different areas together, making virtually no part of the maps safe and keeping the action moving, though I agree with others that the very linear gameplay makes fighting the same close-quarters battles repeatedly a bit of a pain. Using the rocket launcher in such close quarters is difficult and definitely dangerous, but you always left just enough room to negotiate that danger. Overall, these were actually pretty fun, and were I a more patient man I would've stuck out all three to the end on HMP. (I also don't doubt that there are people much more skilled/insane than me who can do these on UV.)

The architecture isn't brilliant but it's good nonetheless. As I said, you join different areas together well, and use of teleporters, doors, and height variations at the beginning of MAP02 was delightfully disorienting, and though I don't normally like trial and error it was kinda fun to figure out how to most economically use the teleporters, chaingun and SSG to get through that first area. Your texture choices aren't bad though in some spots I think there are too many different textures clashing up against one another in one small area. Sometimes a more sparing choice of textures will bring out good architecture even more.

Texture misalignment

This could be aligned better too

The grate disappears into the ground here. Probably just an oversight.

This and similar things might look better if the lowering floor matched flats with the one it's lowering to. Just a thought.

Crushers like this that go up right into the sky and back are funny looking and can be easily made better with a bit of bordering ceiling for it to (appear to) go into.

Overall, a good set of maps! I think your idea of making maps hard by merit of weapons choice is fairly well-realized at this point. I just know there's an all-melee weapons map coming down the pipeline (or if not, it's an obvious idea that's probably occurred to you anyway.) Keep up the good work. :)

EDIT: Oh, and one more brief mention: the revenant .deh is pretty clever.

"kind of frustrating when I find myself pitted against two hell knights and a fuckton of lost souls with nothing but 2 rockets left to my name."

Hm... at the end of MAP03 eh? I'll look into that.

I'm guessing you missed the secrets in MAP03. They're pretty cool! (not just shotgun closets, they're big Doom E1 style secrets, you should check them out!). You're the second guy to miss them so I think I'll make them more obvious.

"making virtually no part of the maps safe and keeping the action moving"

This was actually exactly what I intended with every map, cool.

"I agree with others that the very linear gameplay makes fighting the same close-quarters battles repeatedly a bit of a pain."

This is a tricky thing for me, I'm a little disappointed with this myself, really the only non-linearity is your choice to use cells now or later, and the RNG. I guessed that a Castlevania or NES Mega man-like difficulty style would transfer well to Doom but I'm not sure that was entirely true.

It would be awesome to add more paths, but every fork increases the amount of testing and balancing needed exponentially, it seems like it would be worth it though, because the grind of getting better at the one and only way to win gets tiring even for me.

Misalignments I'll fix, I didn't notice the grate, I can fix that pretty easily.

The fourth shot was sort of intentional, to hint very slightly that there's more than meets the eye to this rather boring corridor. Then again it's a waste of extremely valuable visplanes in that area (that area's the worst for VPOs).

I think I can add the couple extra borders for the crushers without causing VPOs in that area, it shouldn't be a big deal, I'd want to do this without changing the timing of the crushers though.

I've tried a few all melee weapons maps and they failed hard, but maybe I'll try it again, just for laughs. I also tried a whacky map where you started with a BFG and were surrounded cruelly by explosive barrels that would blow you up if you used it while facing the wrong direction, but that ended up in the jokewad bin after a while.

I'll look into toning down the texturing, I'm guessing you're talking about MAP01?

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I'll try to get more work into this but my schedule is pretty hectic lately. It would be cool to have 10 maps in this but I'd settle for 5.