What I fear in Doom 4.

I fear that Doom4 will be another game like Rage with annoying quests instead of a straight shooter like Doom2. Doom3 had quests of a sort, but it was not as bad as in Rage. I hope that this game is a straight shooter and stays true to Doom. Having annoying quests as requirements to pass through the game is not what I want. Far Cry 4 will have that, but that is a totally different game.

What do you think?

Fair enough you feel that way, but can't you bring a little more to the table? You don't want the progression to be based on "quests", but you want a straight up shooter. That's all fine, but can't you write a little more on how the style of progression should be? What effects will it have on story, on action. How does it tie in with the need for *lots* of sales and how will 100-200 employees go about making something like that? Is this something that Idtech5 is suited for?

I'm not asking you to write a manual on how to create Doom4 like you want it, but you should really go a little beyond just your immediate concerns if you want to open a discussion.

neubejiita said:

Doom3 had quests of a sort

Missions are not quests. :P

Your post sounds like some youtuber complaint. All righteous indignation, 0 substance.

I've seen too many of these "I fear Doom 4 will not be what I want it to be" statements already. Why is it that you care about it so much anyway? Personally I couldn't give any less fucks about how it turns out, as long as it feels and looks like Doom and isn't Doom in name only.

I liked Rage. My fear for Doom 4 has already been wiped out, and that was it turning out to be a Call of Duty clone.

Maybe what I meant was that I would like a game like Doom3, where there are tasks that you are given and you do them, but not quests that you are locked into like Far Cry 3 and Rage. I fucking hate that. I just want a game that is more true to classic Doom and also contains many nods to the classic maps and some hidden areas like E1M1 and other subtle secrets.

Like the Quake buttons scattered around in Rage. A Doom game that deserves the name Doom. And a map editor that does not require a 300^10 core renderfarm to build megatextures. The map editor should be easy to use like Unrealed 3.0 and Jackhammer combined. That would make it easier to create custom maps and episodes.

I am not sure if this is true, but I found some dude on youtube who supposedly got a special invite from Bethesda or MachineGames to be a beta tester or something like that and he got to play all of the Wolfenstein: TNO beta and he seemed to know things about the latest Doom. I am not sure if he was BSing or if he was telling the truth, but supposedly, Bethesda deemed id too incompetent to develop Doom 4, as a result Bethesda took months searching for a new developer who could "create the game Doom Fans want" which they described as "GPU melting Graphics, the Music and sound world of Doom 1, and the gameplay mechanic and balance of Doom II and map design of Doom 64." Now, I don't know if he was telling the truth or he was just BSing, but if he was telling the truth then it sounds like Doom will be very old school.

Post the video so we can (over)analyze it.

DooM_RO said:

Post the video so we can (over)analyze it.

There is no video. This dude under the name of Simeon Yves was just posting comments on a video called "7 Reasons Wolfenstein The New Order Won't Actually Suck". But here is the link to the video so you can read his comments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS2_maInRLk

Aaaah yes, I know him, at least from his posts. He really does seem to know a lot about the game so it might all be true.

What I fear in Doom 4 is the thing sucking ass. Bethesda are the publishers however and all most of the games published by them are actually really good so no worries here.

doom_is_great said:

I am not sure if he was BSing or if he was telling the truth, but supposedly, Bethesda deemed id too incompetent to develop Doom 4, as a result Bethesda took months searching for a new developer who could "create the game Doom Fans want" which they described as "GPU melting Graphics, the Music and sound world of Doom 1, and the gameplay mechanic and balance of Doom II and map design of Doom 64." Now, I don't know if he was telling the truth or he was just BSing, but if he was telling the truth then it sounds like Doom will be very old school.

I call BS: No one remembers Doom 64.

DooM_RO said:

Aaaah yes, I know him, at least from his posts. He really does seem to know a lot about the game so it might all be true.

If that's the case, then I am actually really excited to see how the new Doom will turn out. I hope it's old school in the same way that TNO is old school. No regenerating health, no weapon limits, big levels with lots of secrets and exploration, lots of violence, etc. I hope that they've entrusted the franchise to a really good studio.

His description of how Bethesda would want Doom(4) to be sounds like bullshit. It sounds like a Doom fan describing what he likes from the old games. Doom64? Really? It would surprise me if Bethesda had that in mind.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if what he said about finding a new developer for Doom and considering shutting down id is correct or has been correct at some time. Their patience has seemed endless at this point. On top of that, they're hiring.

There is a new review on glassdoor and this time it's positive, talking about things going in the right direction: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/id-Software-Reviews-E3811.htm?sort.sortType=RD&sort.ascending=false

The review sounds plausible.
Simeon Yves on the other hand sounds like he's bullshitting - all though he does seem to have his facts straight and great attention to detail. Little things like mentioning that it's now been relabelled Doom and such rises him above the average troll/faker.

I want Doom 4 to be a true horror-shooter kind of game, like Doom 3 was so much hyped to be (it turned out to be just a very immersive Doom game, but not emotionally scary).

Didn't they say (way back) that they hired a writer (another one than in Doom 3)? Then I expect some epic backstory :). In Doom 3's case, I can't say it was a very bright plot, but it surely was nicely written.

printz said:

I want Doom 4 to be a true horror-shooter kind of game, like Doom 3 was so much hyped to be (it turned out to be just a very immersive Doom game, but not emotionally scary).

Didn't they say (way back) that they hired a writer (another one than in Doom 3)? Then I expect some epic backstory :). In Doom 3's case, I can't say it was a very bright plot, but it surely was nicely written.

Yeah, that writer is probably long gone. I am sure most of the talent that was originally hired on to make the first version of Doom 4 has left.

Shaviro said:

His description of how Bethesda would want Doom(4) to be sounds like bullshit. It sounds like a Doom fan describing what he likes from the old games. Doom64? Really? It would surprise me if Bethesda had that in mind.

Yeah, I would be really surprised and pretty disappointed if they wanted to emulate the map design of Doom 64 in the latest Doom. I've watched some videos of Doom 64 and the levels look just damn bland. All just boxy and maze like with very little detail. The levels of Doom 2 trounce the levels of Doom 64.

neubejiita said:

I fear that Doom4 will be another game like Rage with annoying quests instead of a straight shooter like Doom2. Doom3 had quests of a sort, but it was not as bad as in Rage. I hope that this game is a straight shooter and stays true to Doom. Having annoying quests as requirements to pass through the game is not what I want. Far Cry 4 will have that, but that is a totally different game.

Rage was a "totally different game" too.

neubejiita said:

Maybe what I meant was that I would like a game like Doom3, where there are tasks that you are given and you do them, but not quests that you are locked into like Far Cry 3 and Rage.

Frankly, I don't understand. What's the difference between "tasks that you are given" and "quests that you are locked into"?

Da Werecat said:

Rage was a "totally different game" too.


Frankly, I don't understand. What's the difference between "tasks that you are given" and "quests that you are locked into"?

Tasks that are given I think are like you can do the task half way and then change your mind and do whatever & quests your locked into are quests that once you start you are forced to finish them before you can do anything else.

I don't see any connection to Doom 3 and Rage here.

There's a number of questionable things that this guy on YT says. For instance that Wolf will be able to run at 144fps on a PC. It's been confirmed it's 60fps on ALL platforms. Even if you could get it higher, 120fps would make more sense, right? Another thing about the destructibility - supposedly it'll work differently depending on a GPU: nVidia will get better destructibiliy, such as being able to destroy a bridge whereas AMD won't. XO and PS4 will also lack this additional level of destruction. I find it hard to believe. Since destructibility plays such a big role in Wolf, such as chipping off cover, I doubt they'd let one platform under one specific GPU have more destruction, let alone being able to destroy something like a bridge only on a PC. Why wouldn't it work on consoles again?

Most of the gameplay 'info' he shares is public and appeared in previews while other stuff has questionable credibility.

Last year there were reports of id working on a 'big project' that isn't RAGE, Quake, Wolf (since Machinegames work on it) and it isn't a new IP. So it has to be DOOM. Hugo Martin who was hired in the second half of last year said they're not working on a new IP which confirms it further. Not to mention reports of the project heading in the right direction. So what, in the last 6 months suddenly Bethesda gets a completely different studio to make DOOM and after this brief time they already announce the beta? Yeah right.

Sounds pathetic that id is not competent enough to make a doom game. They made the first doom games. Who else is compentent then? Romero?=

Touchdown said:

There's a number of questionable things that this guy on YT says. For instance that Wolf will be able to run at 144fps on a PC. It's been confirmed it's 60fps on ALL platforms. Even if you could get it higher, 120fps would make more sense, right? Another thing about the destructibility - supposedly it'll work differently depending on a GPU: nVidia will get better destructibiliy, such as being able to destroy a bridge whereas AMD won't. XO and PS4 will also lack this additional level of destruction. I find it hard to believe. Since destructibility plays such a big role in Wolf, such as chipping off cover, I doubt they'd let one platform under one specific GPU have more destruction, let alone being able to destroy something like a bridge only on a PC. Why wouldn't it work on consoles again?

Most of the gameplay 'info' he shares is public and appeared in previews while other stuff has questionable credibility.

Last year there were reports of id working on a 'big project' that isn't RAGE, Quake, Wolf (since Machinegames work on it) and it isn't a new IP. So it has to be DOOM. Hugo Martin who was hired in the second half of last year said they're not working on a new IP which confirms it further. Not to mention reports of the project heading in the right direction. So what, in the last 6 months suddenly Bethesda gets a completely different studio to make DOOM and after this brief time they already announce the beta? Yeah right.

Yeah, none of this makes any sense at all, that YT commenter is full of shit and probably just pulling things out of his ass as he types.

Simeon Yves said:

As a Result Bethesda took months searching for a New Developer who could "create the game Doom Fans want" which they described as "GPU melting Graphics, the Music and sound world of Doom 1, and the gameplay mechanic and balance of Doom II and map design of Doom 64"

Oh yeah, because any modern company is going to want to re-create the music and level design from 20 year-old games and put them in a AAA title, simply to cater to the old-school fans. This sounds exactly like the other stupid jack-off fantasies I've seen so many other times from the likes of people who think that Doom 4 should just be Brutal Doom on id Tech 5.

Shaviro said:

There is a new review on glassdoor and this time it's positive, talking about things going in the right direction: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/id...ascending=false

Hmm, hopefully this is reliable info.

Why does DOOM4 have to be either horror OR pure action? Even original DOOM had those fucked up dark halls with flickering lights and tension building with monster sounds. Why not even out those things in new DOOM?

Doom 4 should be an action/racing/scifi/fantasy/cyberpunk/steampunk/historical/tactical/shooter/rpg/jrpg/fighter/simulator/beat 'em up/rts/adventure/porno/Sailor Moon Dating Sim/trucker/paintball/rock 'n' roll/music/bloody/happy/pink/My Little Pony/gory/darknation/brown/gray/clone/Call of Duty/cinematic/scripted/awesome/metal experience we all love for years to come.

I fear that Doom 4 will be like Brutal Doom.

Piper Maru said:

I fear that Doom 4 will be like Brutal Doom.

+1 to that.

"I want it to be gory with much blood and such levels of violence and very gore with limbs and guts going all over with very dynamic gore porn interactivity because brutality is awesome and I am a very sick bastard" - Said nobody with any sense on what makes games good.

It should definitely take notes from Brutal Doom but it should not be as excessive. For instance, I do not want the player to be able to do fatalities on monsters. Monsters on player are a totally different thing. Remember that baron fatality in the leaked Doom 3 video? The one where he rips the marine's head but you still see through his eyes as he swallows his head? Yeah, every monster should have something like that.

It would also be cool if the gore system worked like in Soldier of Fortune. Man, that was awesome at its time.

DooM_RO said:
Remember that baron fatality in the leaked Doom 3 video? The one where he rips the marine's head but you still see through his eyes as he swallows his head? Yeah, every monster should have something like that.

It would also be cool if the gore system worked like in Soldier of Fortune. Man, that was awesome at its time.

While that sounds cool, you run the risk of death taking "too long", like how some of the deaths in Resident Evil 5+ are drawn out.

When I die, I don't want to watch a 5-10 second clip of it happening every single time - I want to be able to jump back into action quickly. Just my opinion though. It could be cool if maybe it was randomized or something.

Also, Doom 4 should take no notes from Brutal Doom... Novelty wore off quickly, became really annoying (blood/gore was borderline ridiculous, and I'm a fan of MK9), ADHD-induced gameplay, horrible sounds, then suddenly became soup for newfags. I can't think of a worse example to base Doom 4 on.

Soldier of Fortune, though, is a different story. I quite liked that level of graphical detail. Clean, precise, fun, and not drawn out nor annoying. SiN's was a lot like this too. Straight to the point, no bullshit.