Doom Mods "without Doom"

Hi there fellow Doomworlders.

This time I have what I think is an interesting question.

Tomorrow is one of my nephews birthday, and I want to give him a present. Now, like a week ago, he came to my house and I showed him some games I have in my PC (Midtown Madness, Worms, etc.), and among those games I showed him Chex Quest, The Adventures of Square and Virus (the one by Phobus). The thing is, my sister (older sister) doesn't like violence in video games, which is why I didn't show him Doom, Heretic..., but he really liked those three. There is no problem with Chex, as it's its own IWAD, but I think that at least Virus needs Doom 2 to work, and that is the problem.

The question, simply stated, is this: Is there a way to give him a copy of Virus or Adventures of Square while "blocking access" to the main Doom 2 wad? I know it doesn't sound very reasonable, but my sister is very, very strict about the violence thing, and if she sees my nephew playing with shotguns and rocket launchers and zombies, my nephew is not going to be the only one in trouble, if you know what I mean. Is there anyway to solve this, or he will have to wait a little longer?

Thanks for reading, and good day.

I suppose you either give him a sanitized Doom 2 wad (which could probably be done in that timeframe) or add whatever whatever content is required to those mods for them to run as IWADs.

From what you propose, I guess the first option is the easiest? Not that it matters, I still don't know how to do it (heh). How can I do that? Something tells me I'm gonna need Slade...

The problem with Virus is that it's a bit poorly done, and the secret level uses Doom 2 resources... I never included a palette in the resources either, so I don't think you can just treat it like an IWAD and have it work.

You might be able to butcher a copy of doom2.wad so that the levels, sound effects and sprites aren't present but the game still runs, though! If you remove Virus MAP10 and/or edit MAP05 to remove the secret exit and FIREBLU you'd not notice the graphics missing, I think.

What about Chex Quest?

Lizardcommando said:

What about Chex Quest?

I was going to say "he's already stated he doesn't need any help with that" but now I realise what you're saying - it's an IWAD, so he can use it in place of doom2.wad for Adventures of Square and Virus. Good solution to the problem here, although I have no idea how that'll work with Virus MAP10 if the kid can find it!

Well, I was thinking a bit about using Chex instead of Doom, mainly because, as far as I know, neither Virus or Adventures... use Doom2 textures, but I didn't really consider it because a) I assumed that would be difficult for me, since I don't have the slightest idea of how to do that, b)I didn't know if, besides the textures, sounds or some other data was required (from the Doom 2 IWAD), and c)given that Chex is an Ultimate Doom replacement, I didn't know if there's, for example, a super shotgun replacement in Adventures of Square (I haven't played it that much, honestly), which might make it unsuitable for that.

Now, I don't really have trouble with time for now (he's going out with his dad for like 2 or 3 days), but yes, I'm in a bit of a hurry. What do you think would be the best approach?

EDIT: extra word.

Well she has to get used to it, if other kids play violent games and are okay, but he's forbidden, he will notice. Still don't give him the full games, but try and show him the games in moderate amounts while he's at your home (so as him not to get impressed and addicted) just to teach him about them (I am not a parent and don't want to be, so don't take this literally).

While I agree with you, unfortunately that's not an option. My sister is a very religious/conservative person, and both of her sons were raised that way. They are aware about "being restricted" from certain things, but that doesn't seem to bother them (at least, not much: they are aware of violent/gory videogames, but it doesn't seem to caught their attention as much as Minecraft...). Of course, it's only a matter of time until that will not be a problem, but for now, what you propose is unlikely to help, though I certainly appreciate your suggestions.

Violence is a part of fucking life, sheesh. That kid's mum overprotective.

He's ought to be taught about that eventually, why not rip the bandage now?

Crasger said:

Violence is a part of fucking life, sheesh. That kid's mum overprotective.

Sadly there are parents who retain their overprotective attitude even past their kids' puberty, my own mother being a great example of this. I was 14 years old when she noticed me beating up a zombie with a crowbar in the demo of Half-Life 2. I agree with you, though - sooner or later, they'll be exposed to the "naughty" stuff anyway, not to mention the other type of naughty stuff.

Worms is pretty violent imo :P

I guess you can modify the iwad, include the mods in the iwad or something, for personal use i dont think it matters.

What if it was a censored Ultimate Doom/Doom 2 IWAD like Solid Snake mentioned? I'd be willing to put together a patch for you.

Specifically replacing the gory/bloody wall decorations with their untainted equivalent if available (think GBA Doom's texture changes) or if no equivalent texture exists just something else entirely. Then have invisible BLUDx0 and other gore sprite replacements, replace all of the gibbing deaths with their normal ones (maybe make the gibbing sound silent or use a generic death scream). And then perhaps the death animations could have their blood removed. Perhaps clean the dried blood off of the pistol and shotgun zombie's armor and face.

Would she care about the satanic themes? I mean, they are portrayed as the bad guys, and you're fighting them. I could make "clean" versions of textures with the satanic imagery if so. I could also put together a dehacked patch to make corpses disappear after a few seconds like GBA Doom, remove the existing corpse decorations entirely, and remove swearing (even mild) in the text.

EDIT: Read the OP a little more closely in detail. Would she not even accept it if the weapons were just the Chex Quest ones teleporting the enemies away? If not with the normal Doom monsters, what about the Chex Quest monsters?

Even though it's not exactly Doom, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Super 3D Noah's Ark. That would probably be a perfect fit given the religious and anti-violence nature of your sister.

Of course, the idea of a censored Doom would be to get the main Doom experience without offending, though I know you just want the non-violent TCs to work. I can make a custom Freedoom IWAD with Chex Quest assets replacing the existing stuff.

MFG38 said:

I agree with you, though - sooner or later, they'll be exposed to the "naughty" stuff anyway, not to mention the other type of naughty stuff.

I think the reason we have depravity and degenerates in this society is because people, in their childhood were either protected and shielded or taught poorly about issues such as (but not limited to): Sex, Violence, Drugs, Politics, Money, Business, Fame, Talent, Luck, Life and Death, Religion, Privileges and Rights, Altruism, Humanity and so on...

I feel as though if a person has experienced a combination of my theory above and that person being born with a mental disorder will have a high chance of him/her ending up on the news, negatively.

Crasger said:

Violence is a part of fucking life, sheesh. That kid's mum overprotective.

He's ought to be taught about that eventually, why not rip the bandage now?

because he's not you're fucking kid. I don't think zed is disputing that he needs to be protected. He has enough foresight to know his sister wont take it lightly and he's avoiding conflicts with her. Arguing haplessly about with his sister about the doomworld way to raise children is not zeds ideal Saturday night. And giving the kid doom anyway and telling him to be hush hush about it is encouraging him to keep secrets from mom, which is far worse.

that said maybe you could ask the freedoom crew if they kept old alphas of it somewhere, there has to be done kinda template where every lump had some kinda unfinished stock thing for everything you could use so the game is pretty much obviously broken and unplayable when not run with those wads.

40oz said:

because he's not you're fucking kid. I don't think zed is disputing that he needs to be protected. He has enough foresight to know his sister wont take it lightly and he's avoiding conflicts with her.

Jeez. It was a suggestion.
And not a call for a fight, mind you.

Also, there was no argument.

Thanks for your replies.

@Sodaholic: Yes, the satanic theme is also an issue, and you guessed right, my sister is very religious (mormon). Thanks for offering your help, I would really appreciate it, but I really don't want to be an opportunist, so I will like to help in whatever I can.
Now, a couple of things: Yes, there's no problem with the teleporting weapons in Chex, so if it can be done with that, and it's easier, I'd say that's the ideal solution. And I don't understand the bit about Noah's Ark, do you mean it can be used to run those mods?

About the other comments, yeah, I don't agree with that kind of mentality, but there's very little I can do given that she's my older sister, and any kind of "persuasive argument" I might try is likely to just make things worse.

And yes, whille we can say that Worms or some of the others are "violent", the main difference is their obviously humoristic approach, which is lacking in Doom (well, that and the satanic theme). And you can turn blood off in Worms :P

So, to resume, which would be the easiest way? Here's what has been mentioned so far:

-Remove the "offending material" froom the Doom 2 iwad
-Use Chex Quest or Noah's Ark (?) as a replacement
-Use a "clean" copy of Freedoom (or an old alpha) and use that as a replacement (for some reason this sounds like the more complicated)
-I don't know if GreyGhost and Solid Snake are referring to the same thing, maybe that's another option?

Which is the best solution in your opinion?

Thanks for your help guys.

Zed said:

Yes, the satanic theme is also an issue, and you guessed right, my sister is very religious (mormon).

The most prolific level designer on the id team was a Mormon, and his justification was "they're the bad guys, and they're just cartoons." Not saying this as something to tell your sister, just an anecdote/contrast that I find amusing.

Zed said:

Now, a couple of things: Yes, there's no problem with the teleporting weapons in Chex, so if it can be done with that, and it's easier, I'd say that's the ideal solution.

Is it a problem if the enemies still have guns, even though you have "zorchers"?

Also, are you going to be having him play the game through ZDoom? If not, how old and tech savvy is he? I ask because perhaps you could set up some batch files and keep the folder that the source port is in tagged as hidden if he's using Windows.

I just don't want my dehacked patch meant for (the custom censored) Doom 1/2 as-is to possibly conflict with any mods you run.

Also, you know of Chex Quest 3, right? That's probably the best way to run the Chex Quest, not only for the 3rd episode but because it's standalone and more polished than the original '90s release.

Zed said:

And I don't understand the bit about Noah's Ark, do you mean it can be used to run those mods?

Super 3D Noah's Ark is a nonviolent Wolfenstein 3D based game that can be found here:
http://wisdomtree.itch.io/s3dna

As an adult, I've found the Chex Quest monsters terrifying, though I saw them in some Zandronum mashup, not in Chex Quest itself.

Sodaholic said:

The most prolific level designer on the id team was a Mormon, and his justification was "they're the bad guys, and they're just cartoons." Not saying this as something to tell your sister, just an anecdote/contrast that I find amusing.

I was a mormon before becoming an atheist (which coincidentally happened around 94-96), so you can imagine my surprise when I found out this.

Sodaholic said:

Is it a problem if the enemies still have guns, even though you have "zorchers"?

No, there's no problem with that.

Sodaholic said:

Also, are you going to be having him play the game through ZDoom? If not, how old and tech savvy is he? I ask because perhaps you could set up some batch files and keep the folder that the source port is in tagged as hidden if he's using Windows.

Yes, I was thinking on using ZDoom. He's 11, and he really doesn't use the internet without permission / supervision, but he knows enough to find hidden archives, so that's really not an option.

Sodaholic said:

I just don't want my dehacked patch meant for (the custom censored) Doom 1/2 as-is to possibly conflict with any mods you run.

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean that the patch will make the regular Doom or other mods unplayable? If that's what you mean, that's really not a problem. As I mentioned earlier, it's just a matter of time before he grows up, realizes it's not such a big deal, and will probably be looking for the real thing, which I'll be happy to provide :)

Sodaholic said:

Also, you know of Chex Quest 3, right? That's probably the best way to run the Chex Quest, not only for the 3rd episode but because it's standalone and more polished than the original '90s release.

Yeah, good point.

Sodaholic said:

Super 3D Noah's Ark is a nonviolent Wolfenstein 3D based game that can be found here:
http://wisdomtree.itch.io/s3dna

Oh, I didn't remember that. I don't have it, but I will take a look.

I'm pretty sure the adventures of square were avaiable as a separate game. I even had it on my disk this way.

Sorry for the little bump.

I just found this:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/66098-viruspal-the-last-piece-to-run-the-game-virus-as-an-iwad/

The download link is broken, unfortunately. But does it work? There's not enough info in the thread to determine wheter it works or not (or I'm really too stupid to see it...). If the answer is "yes", could anybody upload it please? If it really works, it could be the ideal solution (it seems that it's the only one that still needs an IWAD).

Again, sorry for the bump, and good day.

It should work, if someone can get the download.

The only problem is the secret level. I think I can remove it and change the secret exit in MAP05.