Project: an exhaustive list of full Ultimate Doom/Doom 2/TNT/Plutonia single-player r

That's not the only difference between the two. Some things have been fixed that used to be broken, such as a secret in E2M3 which used to be inaccessible. Also, the engine behavior is slightly different, hence the existence of -complevel 3 in PrBoom. At any rate, for someone who buys the game now, no matter through which seller and on which platform, they'll always end up with Ultimate Doom. Nothing subjective about any of that.

I'll think on your other suggestion, but as of right now it still strikes me as something of a slippery slope.

Budoka said:

That's not the only difference between the two. Some things have been fixed that used to be broken, such as a secret in E2M3 which used to be inaccessible. Also, the engine behavior is slightly different, hence the existence of -complevel 3 in PrBoom. At any rate, for someone who buys the game now, no matter through which seller and on which platform, they'll always end up with Ultimate Doom. Nothing subjective about any of that.

I'll think on your other suggestion, but as of right now it still strikes me as something of a slippery slope.

Aren't those changes available to registered Doom owners as a patch, without including Thy Flesh Consumed? What's subjective is you suggesting there's a problem. What about a 27 level WAD is a problem, no matter what program you play it with?

Somebody suggested Back To Saturn X for example. 25 levels. Is there really any particular reason this shouldn't be on a list of replacement WADs? And it's 52 levels including both episodes.

Budoka said:

As for Salt-Z man's idea (missed your post until now, sorry), the problem is that in 99% of cases the Pwad would be run through the Ultimate Doom IWAD regardless. To be honest, I've long considered the original version of the game to be altogether obsolete, and it puzzles me outright that some people still use it as a basis for reviewing.

So we shouldn't include pre-Ultimate 27-map wads, solely because their authors didn't use magical time machines to somehow make an additional 9 levels for an episode that didn't even exist at the time?

Budoka said:

The problem being, replacing every original map is the only objective benchmark I can use. If i start including "incomplete" (for lack of a better word) WADs, at which point do I draw the line ? It would eventually become a list of every single Pwad in existence, which serves no purpose at it is the very function of the Idgames archive.

You could draw the line at 15 maps, which is the accepted definition of a megawad

purist said:

You could draw the line at 15 maps, which is the accepted definition of a megawad

There are soooo many 15+ map megawads.

Indeed. Way to many to bother with.

Sorry for the absence everyone, but I'm having some computer related troubles at the moment, and might not be able to post very often.

Anyway:

purist said:

You could draw the line at 15 maps, which is the accepted definition of a megawad

...see what I mean, people ? First it was 32 maps, then 30, then 20, now 15, and soon it will be 12. Alright now, sorry to be blunt, but that's enough of this argument. If you want to make your own list based on different rules than mine, you're welcome to do just that, but please quit trying to turn this one into something it was never conceived as in the first place.

Regarding BTSX, see my remark about unreleased projects.

As for the problem of pre-1995 Doom 1 full replacement, before sorting out the matter... were any of those even released ? Sorry but I can't check at the moment.

NJ Doom came out in 94. That may be it?

For all the semantics questions about what constitutes a megawad, this thread brings to mind another question for me: what purpose does a list like this actually serve?

I already gave my reasons for making this list, and only created this thread in order to request help making it, which I am thankful enough to have gotten. Anyway, I specified "full replacements" in the title, meaning this was never about megawads in general, and has always been about full replacements.

Personally,I may end up playing some of the (many) wads I didn't know about, others definitely not.

I was very interested to discover that both Heroes and Cleimos II are indeed older than so-called original full replacement Memento Mori. Heroes is debatable with very few original maps, but Cleimos II is argument proof.

I was also very surpised to find out just how many of those were available before the release of Final Doom.

I am grateful to those who pointed out wads I have failed to find (and may continue doing it if they're so inclined), but beyond that, others can do whatever they like with the results of these experiments, it ain't my problem.

esselfortium said:

For all the semantics questions about what constitutes a megawad, this thread brings to mind another question for me: what purpose does a list like this actually serve?

Well, the same way you have the Cacowards lists or the Notable Wads list, I think it helps if you want to search something new to play (with the parameters that OP chose).

This list is useful but the thread title sucks. It should be something like "Exhaustive list of full megawads" to help with future searches.

Good to see the resurgence of the past few years.

Reading this list really puts in perspective how much Doom I've played over the years.

No regrets.

JudgeDeadd said:

PIR2
Armadosia The Mad Corridor

PIR2 is still not added to the OP list, and Armadosia is misspelled on the list.

Not sure how that happened, but it's rectified.

Update: seems like all four of Enjay's megawads are actually the same one, so I don't know about any of you but I'll be playing the Zdoom 2001 version over anything else.

Restoring Deimos is mislabeled as a 2012 wad in the OP list, while in fact it's a 2015 one. (recently reviewed in Newstuff Chronicles)

What the hell was I thinking ? Fixed. Hmmm, three full megawads released the exact same day by different authors, what are the odds of that.

That's a strange coincidence indeed, that more cool.

The Twilight Zone 2: Final Dreams, not Final Realms

Apologies, it's fixed. Not sure what I had in mind, because there's apparently no wad called "final realms", yet I'm sure I've read that before. Oh well, it's not really relevant.

There's a megawad that has less than 30 levels for D2 (around 20) that is a noteworthy exception of mentioning, Number One Kill: The Next Generation.

Cyanosis said:

that is a noteworthy exception of mentioning

What ?

Budoka said:

What ?

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/1killtng.zip

I don't see any noteworthy-ness exception-ness of mentioning-ness. :|