The Cyberdemon

Clonehunter said:

What the hell is that pink blob behind the Cyberdemon? I thought it was a Manc, but it looks really different. Pain Elemental? Seems to have arms and a wide mouth?

It's just a wall decoration. Corpses between the stone blocks. Like that other corpse in the archway.

Hofmann said:

And your point is?

That, just because hell's sky is yellow, doesn't mean everything has to be masked in yellow and that the color is determined by the light source which is typically a white light?

MetroidJunkie said:

That, just because hell's sky is yellow, doesn't mean everything has to be masked in yellow and that the color is determined by the light source which is typically a white light?

How do you know which color is the light source, what is the light source in hell? Either way there is no yellow filter its just ambient lighting, and it looks great.

MetroidJunkie said:

Because everything outside on Earth right now must be blue because the sky's blue, right? XD

The sky isn't blue exactly. It only looks blue because of the refraction of light high in the atmosphere, and is more whitish lower down since more spectra of light get a chance to get scattered as well. I'd imagine it looks far different to birds, considering they see a higher range of colors than humans do. The hell sky is filled with particles of volcanic dust and ash, which is bound to drastically effect the tint of everything in a very similar manner to which the smoke from a forest fire does. Another effect of large amounts of volcanic ash are furious lightning storms from all the particles rubbing together, which you do see occasionally in the hell demo.


Only you can prevent wildfires.

Very good example. Maybe people will stop complaining now.

Games about nuclear apocalypse are probably realistic in that it'll be a barren wasteland of little color other than brown and yellow, doesn't mean it's aesthetically pleasing. XD

Distance fog on regular mountains tends to look blue.

Doom 3 already has a monster greater than the Cyberdemon: the dragon-like Maledict. It's the kind of boss monster that's so huge it has to run on scripted attack sequences, while you have very little room to move just to avoid his projectiles. It's still a good enough boss monster for id's expectations, but has the flaws of being pretty standard for the course. It also looks, along with the hell guardian, like a balrog.

I'd be disappointed if id just reuse the Doom 2 monster spawner in Doom 4. My favourite bosses are the "evil counterpart" kind, not huge creatures. Some kind of Satan or Antichrist that moves as fast as you and has countermeasures for all your moves.

The Cyberdemon's shocking value in Doom 1 and 2 is the immense damage from his rockets. It just doesn't mean anything in Doom 3 where there are so many other things that can mess you up quickly in more creative ways, with you being vulnerable already (i.e. barrels, SARGE, hell guardian, HELL KNIGHTS...)

Idea: instead of Cyberdemon, use greater revenants to scare the player. Giant skeletons in dark anti-light cape-auras that kill you.

Hopefully they'll recreate the spider mastermind, unscripted and menacing ... big but not too big. Maybe it'll bring back the terror we all felt when we first encountered the Cyberdemon.

They only made the monster spawning wall because of technical limitations, they wanted to give the boss a "weak point" and Doom limitations simply didn't allow for area specific weak spots due to infinite heights. There would be absolutely no reason for them to have to do the same for this. Perhaps we can see a new version of the Icon of Sin that has a full on body. The aforementioned Maledict did have a skull head similarly to the Icon of Sin so maybe there was some influence.

MetroidJunkie said:

Games about nuclear apocalypse are probably realistic in that it'll be a barren wasteland of little color other than brown and yellow, doesn't mean it's aesthetically pleasing. XD

With all the people dead/gone you can expect the cities to be rather quickly overtaken by nature, happened with Chernobyl after all. Unless of course everything is vaporized, but in a situation like that you can't really expect any surviving anything, can you? That wouldn't be a fun game, would it?

Tetzlaff said:

It's just a wall decoration. Corpses between the stone blocks. Like that other corpse in the archway.

Ah, I see that now. Well, nevermind then!

Here's how I want It to be:

"The marine steps Into the citadel and Investigates the bloody scene In It, seeing his former marines body parts and guts everywhere, he thinks about how It even happended. It could've been a Cacodemon, It could've been a Pinky. But It looks like something even more menecing destroyed him... Something more, big. Like the gun you're carrying.

Than, out of nowhere, you heard large mechincal-like footsteps going Into the large part of the castle, you walk Into the large room and discover the one and only, Cyberdemon."

That's how I want It to be, making It a epic boss battle (or mini boss).

Kind of sounds like E2M8, you start the level greeted by Barons of Hell decorating the walls. You wonder just what could have caused such a thing and then you meet the Cyberdemon.

Yeah the first time you see a bunch of Barons ripped apart and used as decor with the sinister music at the same time immediately sets up the right mood for both curiosity and caution. It's a great Boss fight and as many of us say, should of been the final Boss.

E3M8 doesn't even seem to have much build-up, guess even ID realized that the Cyberdemon was more of a boss enemy. With E3M8, it's more set for action than horror, both the stage and the music. Contrasts heavily with E1M8 and E2M8 where it's like you're walking into hell.

That's mostly what I want In the new DOOM as well, maybe set a homage to the first DOOM with my Idea of the Cyberdemon reveal In the game, with maybe a few changes (like the ones I said).

Expect there'll be a bunch of Marine guts Instead of Baron's hanging on walls. xD;

Something bigger than the Cyber demon? Of course!
Look:
Doom/TUDoom-Final boss(Spider Mastermind)

Doom II-Final boss(Icon of Sin)

Final Doom-Final boss(Gatekeeper aka icon of sin)

Doom 3-Final boss(Cyber demon)#

Doom 64-Final boss(Mother demon)

And goes on...

#-this Doom was a reboot of the whole series, like if Doom never existed and was in another form as Doom 3.

Voros said:

Something bigger than the Cyber demon? Of course!
Look:
Doom/TUDoom-Final boss(Spider Mastermind)

Doom II-Final boss(Icon of Sin)

Final Doom-Final boss(Gatekeeper aka icon of sin)

Doom 3-Final boss(Cyber demon)#

Doom 64-Final boss(Mother demon)

And goes on...

#-this Doom was a reboot of the whole series, like if Doom never existed and was in another form as Doom 3.

People always saw the Cyberdemon as the true final boss, while the Cyberdemon Is more suspenseful, the Spider Mastermind Is supposed to be an finale like In an action movie.

I do agree with them, that the Cyberdemon should've been the Final Boss.

Hmm...your actually right. No one seems to care about the Icon or Mastermind or the rest. Even I don't. Maybe its because the Cyberdemon seems to be somewhere high in the caste of demons but not highest, like second in command but we can tell it deserves first! Also, it kind of reminds me if Doomguy IMO,why? Well Doomguy is just a marine who manages to stop hell going further so that mankind is saved. Its his job isn't it, to protect at all costs? Maybe hell unleashed the Cyberdemon to stop him, as it is hell's mightiest warrior, just like how marines are the toughest soldiers of mankind.

The word you're looking for is "iconic". Cybie is the most iconic of the bosses in the original games. It's why he was brought back as the final boss of Doom 3.

Thanks! The Cyberdemon is iconic, but it always seems to act like a mini boss in all Doom games except Doom 3...

Even prior to Doom 3, he was prominently featured on the cover/title of Doom 2.

it's been sorta revealed that there is going to be monster variants, maybe there's a hellish variant of the cyberdemon more akin to it's classic design?

While the Mother Demon is an interesting fight due to her different mechanics (esp if you need to fight her with BFG or rockets because you either don't have the Unmaker or wasted all your cell ammo), she is ridiculously weak versus the Cyberdemon. In a one-on-one fight the Cyber literally always wins, despite her 1000 additional HP.

The Cyberdemon in fact can defeat almost any Doom engine game enemy in a one-on-one battle. D'Sparil, Maulotaurs, Heresiarch, Korax - they're nothing to him. Inquisitors, nothing. Only the spectral enemies from Strife can win and that's because they cheat with a bitflag that makes them totally impervious to anything except Sigil damage.

The reasons for this are several fold:

• The Cyberdemon has special case AI to make him attack at a much higher rate than normal missile firing monsters.
  
• The Cyberdemon has no melee attack and therefore doesn't waste excessive time closing range.
  
• The Cyberdemon's triple rocket attack is utterly devastating compared to anything the other enemies have.
  
• The Cyberdemon doesn't waste time on gimmicks like teleportation, turning the floor into lava, flying defenselessly across a room on rocket jets, or summoning a bunch of lackeys that die in one rocket blast.
  
• Cybie is immune to blast radius damage, which nearly all the other monsters mentioned use for their attacks, while in several cases not sharing this immunity themselves.
  

Thus with all these factors in his favor he's the most powerful stock Doom engine enemy that doesn't have cheater bitflags :P

Well, if you want to be technical, the Archvile would eventually win but only because the Cyberdemon shares the same script exception as all the others that prevents them from retaliating against one. So Cybie let him win. =P

Quasar said:

The Cyberdemon in fact can defeat almost any Doom engine game enemy in a one-on-one battle. D'Sparil, Maulotaurs, Heresiarch, Korax - they're nothing to him. Inquisitors, nothing.

...

Thus with all these factors in his favor he's the most powerful stock Doom engine enemy that doesn't have cheater bitflags :P

Not correct, you didn't take one enemy into account: Spider Mastermind beats Cyberdemon at short distance. Even the "medium" distance as in Doom 2 MAP20 can be short-enough to let him win sometimes. :)

scifista42 said:

Not correct, you didn't take one enemy into account: Spider Mastermind beats Cyberdemon at short distance. Even the "medium" distance as in Doom 2 MAP20 can be short-enough to let him win sometimes. :)

Occasionally, but not consistently. :P

This guy:




...deserves a mention, while tracing potential lineages of the cyberdemon. From here, of course.

Quasar said:

Occasionally, but not consistently. :P

I dare to say that consistently. Here is an example map. Each of the monsters is restricted in his rectangle, which is exactly that much tight to allow him no movement in X direction and exactly 4 A_Chase steps of movement in Y direction, which assures that their probability to start attacking is equal. Distance between the monsters is only 8 map units. When you instigate infighting between them, Mastermind is pretty much guaranteed to always win (or at least mostly, perhaps, but I haven't seen him lose yet). :)