The DWmegawad Club plays: Sunlust

Map 3: 100% kills, 3/5 secrets, 0 deaths

That opener: Panicked and started shooting at the arachnotron at once. Deserved a death here but got lucky. It's been so long since something in Doom caused me to jump; well done.

After that, I made the ledge hop to the mancubus and the berserk secret, later learning that this is an easier path than dropping down. The blue key has an ominous setup. Moved on and picked up the backpack and some more ammo before springing it. Totally called which walls would open up and reveal monsters. Lucked out again when an imp distracted a hellknight allowing me time to shoot the release switch.

Yellow key fight got tense with the hellknight fiercely guarding the lift switch (that's why it's stuck there folks) and a large pack of imps. The area beyond the yellow door wasn't as deadly though I can see it hurting players with poor movement skills. Hellknight and namcubus at close range with no cover. Unlike the opener, I goaded them into infighting and finished off the survivor. The following trap had me keeping a pain elemental between me and a revenant. Thanked it for being a shield by filling it with lead.

Minor gripe with the forced soulspheres on certain paths. It's not really friendly to playing without saves. I used a safety save because I had a suspicion there was a secret in a lava pit. The hidden room with the plasma is a standout. I wonder how one would handle it in a speedrun. Playing casually, staying silent makes things a lot easier; use the hellknights to thin out the waiting imps.

Overall fun map. Also went back after clearing and found a 4th secret.

Map 07: "Total Enclosure" (UV)

This is the first map I didn't play before deciding to save (the rest of) Sunlust for the DWMC. "Total Enclosure" is a map characterized by playful but lethal gotchas and space-restrictive trap fights. The starting sequence is hilarious, the SSG scurrying out of sight as you try to grab it, and all sorts of monster closets open up as you try to find supplies and catch your bearings. The platforming room had an amusing NOPENOPENOPE SPIDERS moment; you have to quickly backpedal if you don't want to take damage, a fun and manageable bit of Doom parkour, and if you panic with the RL you might end up with a "Good at Doom" moment, as DotW would put it. The hardest encounter is the RL room, which starts out looking like an easy closet trap until it reveals its true nature as a timed encounter -- a whoooole bunch of shit comes in, and the encounter trolls you by putting you in a position where your new shiny RL is more likely than the monsters to send you to your (gr/s)ave. And oh yeah, barriers have subtly been raised, denying immediate exit. It's still very manageable, however, if you decide (or learn) to tackle it before squandering much of the megasphere on other encounters.

I finished the map with around 40% kills and didn't encounter a single mancubus, so I apparently missed a lot. Oh well. Now that I've opened up the editor, I see an arena-like structure with a useful object (here the BFG) raised on a platform that doesn't seem to be immediately accessible, so though the "Dead Simple" trope has certainly been avoided, resonances of it aren't entirely absent. Anyway, fun map.

Music Rankings

Map03
Map07
Map04
Map01
Map06
Map05
Map02

07: Total Enclosure
This map felt a bit like something off Stardate for me (which is somewhat amusing considering that the main author here is danne) but without the palette shenanigans, so it's actually green-ish brown instead of purple (Stardate with the custom palette removed looks pretty interesting) plus a natural outdoor part that doesn't look that Ribbiks-ian without his trademark curves. Nice trick with an ssg, I couldn't recall any of those while playing this particular map, so I used this one to learn how to do that myself, heh.
Gameplay in here may be deceptively slaughter-like initially, but in fact it's pretty small numbers in congested environments, with the only real bit of meat-grinding happening in the bfg secret. I believe the main goal here is to dispatch all of the arachnotrons to open the exit door, but as a main task it's not something really interesting; the key attraction of this map is secret-hunting, and I admit that it's one of the very few maps that present this thing in an interesting enough way even for me, the unrepentant secret-hater. Here, they reveal quite a portion of a map complete with additional cool fights (the aforementioned bfg massacre is truly a standout fight of this map, so missing it is, like, missing all the cool stuff), and their actual implementation is pretty unorthodox, find and kill all of the fat bastards some of which reveal themselves in unusual ways. Cool gimmick.
So overall - it's an interesting map with an emphasis on "overtime" exploration as opposed to boring regular completion. A bit too cramped at times and has a platforming section, but those are hardly dealbreakers, anyway. Well worth searching every nook and cranny.

Ribbiks said:

boom scrolling triggered by player crossing a linedef. item gets pushed into a W1 tele. pretty funny effect. I've seen mouldy and darkreaver use this a couple time as well iirc.

Thanks. I supposed it was something regarding the scrolling floor, but I couldn't figure out how it was done exactly. I guess I learned another trick :P

I remember enjoying the Mancubus hunt in MAP07, though the single health bonus thing confused me at first.

MAP08 is one of my favorites.

MAP07: Total Enclosure

...And just when I say "things are starting to get a bit samey," I'm treated to this nugget of delight.

The grimy technological base theme established in MAP05 and MAP06 continues here, though the lava and toxic lake settings in which those level squat gives way to a landscape of brown and green rock through which various fluids trickle; if not for the sense of abstraction that pervades Sunlust - that the settings are meant to evoke atmosphere rather than represent 'real' environments - I'd place this as a mining or refining facility on some alien planet.

It's very possible to play through with no other goal than getting to the exit, but the map is constantly giving you little peeks into parts of the environment that aren't immediately accessible, drawing the curious player into its web - "What's in there? How do I get in there?" The first time you're presented with a single health bonus and then get a mancubus thrown in your face, it feels like a cruel trap, but a pattern quickly emerges, a sense of interconnection between the various out-of-bounds excursions, and the patient, diligent player is rewarded with a BFG and a slaughter that accounts for almost one-half of the map's monster count, set in a refinery that's separate from the main base and seems happy to stand merely as a backdrop to the action if a player chooses not to explore every possibility the level has to offer.

The walrus is a lovely little in-joke although it also has the feeling of a reference going somewhat over my head.

OTOH I didn't have a clear sense of what I actually did to finally open the path to the exit; it felt more like I was wandering, occasionally checking back to see if the clearly-marked exit door had opened - eventually (after a foray into the then-abandoned eastern half of the map) it turned out that it had. It's only after firing up the map in Doom Builder that it becomes clear to me that getting to the exit involves tag 667 behaviour - ironic, since I'd twigged early enough (with the way every single secret seemed to house a mancubus) that there was some tag 666 behaviour involved in that particular puzzle sequence.

Back on topic of getting the yellow key in MAP06:

Ribbiks said:

hm, I was never able to make that without a RJ. zandro, right? the acceleration seems to be much quicker in that port (I noticed that in coop-testing after first-try SR50'ing the ss in m01, which takes me a bajillion attempts to do in prb+), might make certain jumps that I had binned into "too frustrating for anyone to bother with" easier than anticipated. something to keep in mind for future mapping, I suppose.

I have NOT jumped on top of the bars, not even the lesser ones. I've just leaped onto the thin edge of the ledge - and the bars lowered. And I have reproduced the feat in PRBOOM-PLUS within only 3 attempts!

EDIT: I opened the map in an editor and now I see how I could do it: The bars lower upon pressing use on the key platform! When the player stays on the ledge (which is easy to get on), he can reach the switch-activated line (only 56 units distance, which is below the limit 64) and press it.

MAP07 Total Enclosure

so here we have a moment of troll right off the bat with the SSG warping away. quite a few arachnotrons and hitscanners dot the place. The arachnotron only need to be killed to reach the exit, the mancubi on the other hand are kept in the health bonus secrets. miss out on them, and you miss out on a BFG slaughter battle in the far right, also accessible by secret. gives off a vibe similar to MAP06 of SOD, since those brown liquids exhibit annoying friction. A pretty interesting MAP07.

scifista42 said:

EDIT: I opened the map in an editor and now I see how I could do it: The bars lower upon pressing use on the key platform! When the player stays on the ledge (which is easy to get on), he can reach the switch-activated line (only 56 units distance, which is below the limit 64) and press it.

a ha. funny that wasn't caught in playtesting or betas, definitely not intended. doesn't notably affect maxkills play at least, with the exception of frontloading a few rockets.

MAP07 - Total Enclosure [https://youtu.be/TI_asRaSIQI]

Kills: 46% | Items: 30% | Secrets: 22% | Time: 8:03 | Attempts: 8

Oh boy, this map was not friendly with me. I kept getting killed in the beginning or shortly afterwards, because my health just evaporated. Only on my 7th attempt did I discover the Megasphere. I then died anyway in the rocket launcher ambush due to running out of ammo. Again, not a fan of the overly trap-ridden gameplay. I did not discover the BFG-secret everyone has been talking about, and frankly I don't care. I'm pistol starting anyway, and I have had enough of this map. On to MAP08...

Map07 – Total Enclosure by Danne & Ribbiks – Kills – 100, Items – 100, Secret – 100. End Health – 140, Armor 100. Death Count – 8

Supreme satisfaction describes my reaction to this map. I had so much fucking fun!

Yep, I was taken out within 20 seconds when I ran like crazy and triggered multiple teleport traps. Next go, I managed to sneak up the stairs and use angles to my advantage, and cleared the area sequentially. Alas, I was down to 7% health when I discovered a sneaky secret switch that lowered a lift into a subterranean grotto where a Manc awaited me. With no cover, plus the fuckstick required 4 SSG blasts every goddamn time before his fat ugly ass finally died, I got pureed 4 times in a row! Once I got over my death wish, I stumbled into a Megasphere next to a Zerk – an odd combo – then went back and killed the Manc.

It was mostly smooth sailing after that. A fun little Rocket Launcher fight where a bunch of Imps killed an Arachnotron for me while I slew their buddies with my SSG, a little Doom Parkour onto a platform where I had a jolly time rocketing Arachnotrons in their monster closets, and then the chance discovery of that BFG area. Alas, by this time I had only 6 of the 9 secrets, so I went to the exit, slew the bad guys with ease, and just as I was about to leave, I saw the Computer Map!

Weeeeeellllll, I wasn't about to miss my chance at the BFG massacre Demonologist talked about, so I found the 3 remaining secrets, including one cleverly chained to a secret I'd found earlier, and went back to the BFG area to have the big fight.

I died 3 times in this battle, and it was just a bunch of Imps and Spectres, with a few Sergeants sniping overhead. I shudder to think what was thrown at the player on UV! But as I've often proved, I have no equal when it comes to being killed repeatedly in easy fights, so die I did. I ultimately figured out that running up the stairs and jumping behind the Imp Horde allowed me to easily outflank them, and I soon put away the BFG and took them out with my trusty SSG. So easy.

The look of the map was spectacular. Great architecture with a Quake2ish feel. In some areas the metal structures seemed to actually feel heavy above you, a nice effect. Good work on the naturalistic rocks plus all the slime and lavafalls. This map also had a strong, somewhat menacing mood. Music track was another winner in the calm and pretty category, a nice counterpoint to the occasionally manic action. This map could be my new favorite!

MAP07 - "Total Enclosure" by Danne & Ribbiks
Mixed feelings about this, again starting out is a real pain with death being very swift if you cannot find the vital health and armour, as well as managing to survive the rocket launcher fight. I do like the visuals again and the secrets with the special tag to unlock the BFG fight outdoors. I died several times at the start and also a couple of times in the BFG fight, mostly due to getting stuck on pieces of architecture.
Overall a cool looking map with some nice fights and visuals.

MAP07 - "Total Enclosure" by Danne & Ribbiks

Love this map, so nicely done and dripping with atmosphere. Its impossible to leave without finding all the secrets, and quite a prize when you do. The only gripe I have is the slowing floor, which I've already moaned about, but it is super annoying. There was one trap where I faced an archvile and 2 mancs in a small cave with no cover, without being able to move the only choice was to stand there blasting and hope I outlived them. That was the only frustrating moment though.

I did manage to get stuck here:

purist said:

5

Not tonight Sunlust... I have a headache.

Headache has gone.. Oh Sunlust, you're going to get it so hard!

This is an arena map set on what looks like some sort of future hell oil rig, with a cool transparent floor effect. It has an unusual method of progression requiring the collection of several armour helmets all tied to a battle. When all of them are collected the post blocking the exit will lower to allow you to pass.

This is a map that seemed to get easier the further into it I got. The ammo is pretty thin so to start with I was having to leave some monsters alive that caused a nuisance when paired with any of the traps located near the centre of the map. Once a few had been cleared though I had stockpiled enough ammo to clear the turret revs and wandering imps. The battles were also lopsided challenge wise and as it's a non-linear map that means that tackling things in the "wrong" order can make things much harder than they need to be.

I liked some of the fights, while others were oddly vacant and still others a tiny bit dull. There was probably too many all in all and, for me, the solution for all of them was to run away somewhere safe and attack from range which made them a little repetitive also.

SteveD said:

I died 3 times in this battle, and it was just a bunch of Imps and Spectres, with a few Sergeants sniping overhead. I shudder to think what was thrown at the player on UV!

---


MAP07: Total Enclosure
100% kills, 9/9 secrets

Ah, now this is good. Off of the floating space stations and back on terra firma, still with lots of the dark metal theme and green lighting this time, mixed in with green and brown natural rock. The start has a bit of a cheeky bit with the SSG teleporting itself away from you while you try to grab it and wake up everything in the level. Thankfully it ends before it gets aggravating. Despite the initial impression, there's actually a ton of room to move around in this level, as not only are the hallways interconnected but many of the walls are climbable staircases with escape windows. Really lets the player use his mobility, thankfully.

Found one of the mancubus secrets early, was a bit puzzled by only getting one health potion, but then remembered it was MAP07 and figured it was part of a quest to unlock something... sure enough, found the BFG cathedral a bit later. Overall, it made for a nice little secret hunt that isn't too hard at all. I really like the use of the yellow rock here as a signpost for the secrets.

The rocket launcher fight gave me a bit of trouble before I was finally able to get lucky with some dodging. I also agree with mouldy that the AV/double mancubus trap in the slowing floor section was a bit bullshit; while the megasphere takes the sting out I still left with less health/armor than I entered with. Hoping not to see too much more slowing mud in the future levels.

Still, even with those minor annoyances, a very good level all around.

MAP08 - Oneira

Kills: 93% | Items: 100% | Secrets: 50%

Eternal Doom textures, fancy seeing you here. A fortress like building in the middle of nowhere. I like the more surreal setting and the black/blue contrast used. Though using more woods in the inner sections would have gave some more variation in the visuals imo. For the combat we use mostly the plasmagun/chaingun duo and it interesting. The Archviles have a strong presence here on beign used in almost all the encounters. There are 2 cyberdemons in very cramped places where using them to infight is almost a must. The last cyberdemon made up a fun situations on fighting against the pain elementals. Though the place got filled quickly with annoying lost souls and I just went to the exit without killing everyone.

@Magnusblitz - Thanks for showing me how wise I was to choose HNTR! And funny thing, I never noticed those yellow bricks on the secret hunt, I got started with the odd lights. ;)

mouldy said:

I did manage to get stuck here:

Ahahah I got stuck there too!


MAP07: While I complained that the last two maps aren’t really evocative of a “place”, this one most certainly is. At times I’m reminded of the first Combat Shock’s MAP04: an earthen temple corrupted by metal and machinery. But while “Messatsu” feels spacious and alive, “Total Enclosure” is rustic, cramped, and dead. The fights here take a break from the usual micro-management affairs to offer a little more air and opportunities for free movement. While it is similar to MAP06 in philosophy, the added aura of the architecture and “secret hunting” vibe give it a ton more personality and energy, making it perhaps my favorite of the entire E1 set. The only downside is that the BFG fight is hella annoying with all of those specters that pop in just to punish you for blowing your cell too early—otherwise the map is eerie and elegant, its battles and visuals sharpened exactly to my tastes. It’s unfortunate that it doesn’t thematically flow with the other maps as easy (as this is the only one that’s predominantly green), but it works well on its own anyway.

And on top of all that, the MAP07 gimmick is neat too!

Well I've got the flu. Haven't felt like playing Sunlust recently, so I'm just getting back into it. Since I wanted something a little easier yesterday, I went through Demonfear for the first time. It was pretty fun. Now I'm ready to come back.
---

I love how nonlinear MAP05 is. The pillars you have to lower to reach the exit can be done in any order! Most of them are rigged with ambushes, save one. Good job being a little unpredictable there. The color pallete here is a lot darker as opposed to the last four levels. I think it's mostly the skybox.

One last thing: I love the start. You're surrounded, but have all the time you want to think about how to approach it. Having all my guns from the first four levels, the shotgun off to the right wasn't important to me. I ran to the other side of the level, thankfully not triggering one of the pillar ambushes before I could get my bearings. The safe zone may not be large, but it's there.

100% Kills
33% Secrets
0 Deaths on HMP (0 deaths all wad)
---

I finally died. The archviles at the end of MAP06 got me. First I messed up the one guy before the switch to finish lowering the yellow key. Then I grabbed the key and tried to scramble for the exit, only to find out the presumed way out was in fact a lift. Well played. At least the visuals after you clean up the mess are nice on the way down, the most impressive of the wad yet.

Outside of the death I took and the pretty lights at the end, this map also features a start very similar to the previous one. When I first opened the map, I wandered around, woke up the chaingunners, and got them to kill each other when I was trying to get them to shoot at the unalerted monsters instead. It wasn't exactly what I wanted, but it was enough.

The baron corridor and the craziness that followed it was notably good too. First I killed 2 barons. Then I went in, triggered the mob, and carved my way out with a plasma rifle. Remember how I said that was predictable before? Well this time I was greeted with a wall of chaingunners on one side when I got to "safety". Fortunately, there was a corner opposite to them I noticed and quickly ducked into. Blessed are the quick-witted! Loving the wad so far.

100% Kills
0% Secrets
1 Death on HMP (1 death all wad)
---
WTF? Half the monsters are optional! That got me good. So did the rocket launcher trap I didn't need to trigger at all. 5 deaths. I'm going to replay this.

Okay, I got another 5 secrets with the help of the map, but I can't open the doors to the BFG. Time to hit youtube.

Okay, I got the BFG. Thanks to only watching far enough to get all the secrets, I also died 10 times claiming it. I wish I'd seen the switch to open things up sooner than after I had killed everything. That what the damn barrels are for outside! Like Danne said, there's always a better way. I fought them all in the tiny room! Well designed, though. The spectres that come in later are more threatening than the initial wave because you're closed in and likely depleted.

Other than that, I love the start, once again. Woke up EVERYTHING after I took a few steps. In spite of not needing the SSG, I had to scramble to get a foothold, and I love doing that.

Final note: I forgot it was MAP07 until I started reading here. That explains the mancubus secrets.

Blind Totals
39% Kills
11% Secrets
5 Deaths on HMP (6 total)

Post-Walkthrough Totals
100% Kills
100% Secrets
15 Deaths on HMP (16 total)

08: Oneira
Titles like that immediately remind me about Clive Barker's Undying. Days long past...
This was the very first map of this project I saw back in 2013. Ribbiks threw a playtesting request my way, the only explanation was that he started this one as a contribution to DMP2013 but ended up loving it too much to submit there and decided to keep it for something else, so back then Sunlust was still a mystery to me. I believe I managed this map on my first go, even though I certainly missed some parts back then (never collected bfg or bothered with searching for secrets), to my shame. Well, I had more than enough time to compensate for that afterwards, obviously.
This map is the beginning of a thematic cluster I usually call "SWTW-lite", those who tried to approach SWTW but were scared off by its sheer brutality may find [relative] solace here, these maps are much more compact and less epic (and are surely more approachable), but nevertheless just as beautiful and stylish. Oneira indeed feels like something Death-Destiny would pull off in terms of gameplay, but it's certainly miles away from his works in visual department. Very calm and gentle tone in both atmosphere and appearance, combined with menacing but certainly not over-the-top combat with just right amount of "oh fuck oh fuck" to feel entertained but not oppressed.
The highlights are cyber scenarios, the blue key fight puts a player in a crossfie between the rocket turret and some meat, both perched and occupying the ground level, the BFG fight hints at those totally Ribbiks-ian encounters that could be described as "cyb and shit in a matchbox" that will be seen in various forms later on in this megawad, and the final fight is probably the most dangerous one, with cyber sitting on the higher ground raining doom from above, as well as other moving obstacles blocking safe maneuvering. Hectic but cool.
Overall, this is a neat little adventure, with some moderately demanding encounters and lovely surroundings. Need more of those in my free time before it gets devoured by Protoss.

MAP07
A great map finally, it's not as clustrophobic as the previous maps, not repetitive and the engagement isn't spam, there's a crappy area with pillars and nukage under, it was completely a useless area, but there's a secret, so that goes swell, the BFG fight was fair at the very least, but the megasphere secret near the BFG is complete garbage, there's that slime that slows you down and a small pillar to hide by, once you grab the megasphere an AV and a couple of mancubuses will teleport and the entrance will be shut, I left that area with 13 HP, so useless.
4/5

MAP08 - Oneira [https://youtu.be/Q_CHMO3zH84]

Kills: 75% | Items: 85% | Secrets: 0% | Time: 8:38 | Attempts: 5

I absolutely love the atmosphere in this map. It feels so calm and so ominous at the same time, it's great. And it's got three really interesting Cyberdemon fights as well. I also really felt every bit of damage I took in this map. I died a lot in the final Cyber encounter because I came in low on health, but eventually I succeeded (leaving quite a few monsters still alive). My favorite fight was probably with the second Cyber, mainly because it is so short. Overall, great map.

Map 4: DNF, 2/2 secrets, 4 deaths

Difficulty is heating up from here on out. Made it past the claustrophobic opening on first try and threw down a sanity save before wandering out to the SSG. It took a death or two to puzzle out a sequence to secure the hub. Rocket launcher is accessible with any key or a jump from a simple secret. Amazingly, didn't die at blue key battle. When I died at the red key fight, lost interest in continuing.

Map 5: 100% kills, 2/3 secrets, 20 deaths
2 deaths to survive the start. Used a sanity save once a foothold was established. Savescummed my way to completion eventually. Most deaths came from archviles. The one with the spectre backup killed me over and over when I tried to SSG it. Finally dealt with that one with supressive rockets until the AV died. Ring around the rosie with an archvile in a lava pit added 5-6 to the death count; some of these were because I tried to blitz it with rockets, it ran in my face without attacking, and Good at Doom moment followed. The other fight that killed me multiple times was the pile of hitscanners on the walls.

Yeah, I can see where the ammo complaints come from. I had about 50-60 shells on completion and that was with copious infighting. My guns overheated at that one battle with dozens of imps and a hellknight and ended up coaxing the hellknight to kill all its imp buddies. Visually striking map with the floor transperancy. Didn't find the plasma gun secret until after I'd killed everything and was topping off for the heck of it.

MAP08: Oneira

Ooh, another deviation from the techbase-heavy themes of this WAD so far, with the player starting outside the gatehouse of a gloomy grey stone castle. We're back in a lake setting, and the designated contrast colour this time is blue.

The room towards the end - cyberdemon, balconies full of imps, alcoves full of knights - made me wince when I first saw it; locked room, minimal cover, I'm gonna die so much. I made it out of there without giving up my skin once, though; the megasphere placed to allow a full recovery no matter how imperfectly the player handles the encounter is a nice touch. Interesting also is the ability to short-circuit the expected/intended path of progression from there, by talking the teleporter in the 'auditorium' rather than pressing the switch to lower the tiered balconies at the room's north end.

MAP08 Oneira

the heat's on now homies. now with a bluer background making for some "cooler" vibes (I really shouldn't make puns). the blue key is a very congested battle that beckons me to hit with the BFG, and thankfully that damn cyberdemon stays in his hole. the finale was also a memorable setpiece encounter. not bad for the map that introduces cybie to the roster of Sunlusteroos.

Oops! Accidentally played Map09!

Based on that comment and your comment on map 06, I think it's time for someone to move up to UV difficulty ;-)

Yeah Steve is the only player I know that mocks the authors for making HNTR too easy

MAP08: Ohhhh Oneira. When I first played it in the beta, I commented that it felt like a “Swim With the Whales” outtake, being a deep blue brutal bitch of a map. But when I played it this time, I didn’t have nearly as much grief as I did originally—I mean, I still died plenty, but I felt like approaching each fight with a cool attitude and knowing how to corral the cybers easier made for a less aggravating time. This map really does feel like a Ribbiks speedmap to a T: pleasing grayish visuals, quaint asymmetrical rooms of death, and plenty of cyber fights that are squarely built around infighting. I like the (somewhat shallow) choice of routes in the beginning, and feel that the map has grown on me a bit… even if it is a rude asshole at times.

Cynical said:

Based on that comment and your comment on map 06, I think it's time for someone to move up to UV difficulty ;-)

Well, we'll see if I'm still saying "it's too easy" after I actually play Map08. At least I can re-post the Map09 comments tomorrow. But, me moving up to UV on Sunlust? Haha, nice try, Cynical. :D

Heh, I hadn't even noticed that comment was for Map 09.

...Map 09 doesn't have the Cyberdemon at the start on HNTR? How on earth does that work?!?!