Unpopular Wad opinions.

I am one of the few who thought Daedalus isn't a bad megawad. Some seem to hate it, but I thought it was cool. It had some interesting design with the space stations. It also combines the hub setup of Quake 2 with the storytelling/exploration style of Half-Life.

The popular megawads I can't seem to stand are the Community Chest series, especially the first three. There are a few good maps here and there, but the majority consist of ugly, oversized maps that take forever to complete.

Gifty said:

I think his Ultimate Doom stuff in general was much better, because it seemed like he had time to actually polish the look and flow of the maps a little instead of just vomiting random stuff to make a deadline. Containment Area in particular I think is a really good exploration-based map where his various disparate ideas all congeal into a fun layout, and e3m6 is probably the clearest and most elegant Sandy map there is.

Containment Area was made by Tom Hall who then gave it to Sandy to finish up so I don't really count it. Plus I'm not really a big fan of that level anyway. It gets too tedious to explore and there isn't a good flow meaning half of the map gets left out if you're not paying attention.

Sandy? Polish? In the first Doom?

Ummmmmm.

The Pit and the Chasm are both in the top five maps of doom2.wad imo. I can never quite understand what makes people turn their noses up at teh Petersen maps anyway; they usually just go "Sandy (Kappa)" and move on in a totally unenlightening fashion

is it because his maps weren't so tidy with their texture use? I guess that is way down the list of stuff I care about. The layouts of his best maps are charming, novel and unboxy and those are properties I treasure

Da Werecat said:

Sandy? Polish? In the first Doom?

Ummmmmm.

I'm pretty sure Tom Hall just went "oi Sandy m8 here's a map but it's not quite done yet just add in the exit and it's finished alright cheers lad"

Nevermind I just saw you were referring to the fact/opinion his E3 maps were "polished"

SavageCorona said:

I'm pretty sure Tom Hall just went "oi Sandy m8 here's a map but it's not quite done yet just add in the exit and it's finished alright cheers lad"

Nevermind I just saw you were referring to the fact/opinion his E4 maps were "polished"

There aren't Sandy maps in E4.

Typo. 3 is right next to 4, so easy mistake.

dwango6.wad

yakfak said:

The Pit and the Chasm are both in the top five maps of doom2.wad imo. I can never quite understand what makes people turn their noses up at teh Petersen maps anyway; they usually just go "Sandy (Kappa)" and move on in a totally unenlightening fashion

is it because his maps weren't so tidy with their texture use? I guess that is way down the list of stuff I care about. The layouts of his best maps are charming, novel and unboxy and those are properties I treasure

Agreed! The Pit is especially great, and super-underappreciated.

Pirx said:

what i found tiring in valiant was the constant sniper barrage with all those fast projectiles incoming at any moment.

also, concerning modern vs classic wads: classic wads mostly gave the player a slow start, where he could get some weapons before running into monsters. modern wads have this tendency for running starts, where new monsters pop up wherever you go trying to get a bit of ammo. i find this often more difficult than slaughterwads which at least throw weapons and ammo at you. once i know the map i can keep going, but the start often results in getting dogpiled over and over.

indeed, sniper barrage and action starts are the thing in modern wads that are incredibly irritating. Doomguy must catch his breath sometime, not fucking running around like a harlot into even more trouble than he needs just to find something good enough to kill the beasts with.

Opinion from me: I think...newer wads should be more like Deus Vult 2, in that they have two types of exits, the normal one for casuals and maxers, and the speedrun exits for those that want to leave the level early (usually by suicide exit or something).

Getsu Fune said:

newer wads should be more like Deus Vult 2, in that they have two types of exits, the normal one for casuals and maxers, and the speedrun exits for those that want to leave the level early (usually by suicide exit or something).

those were pretty much written off as a failed experiment though iirc. finding them was just an exercise in using db2, and it pretty much removed all interestingness from UV-speed runs.

poor execution maybe, but decent idea. I'm definitely in support of allowing the player access to the exit with a considerable amount of optional content remaining. let's people who dig the map/atmosphere hang around a bit longer, allows tourists-with-typewriters to ditch as soon as they want.

I once had an idea for a wad where all maps would start in front of the exit switch. It's up to the player to decide if they want to play at all. It kind of gives the game a different feel since you're not forced to do anything. I know some levels like this, X.WAD for example (incidentally, the best x-rated wad I've ever played).

Getsu Fune said:

Doomguy must catch his breath sometime, not fucking running around like a harlot into even more trouble than he needs just to find something good enough to kill the beasts with.

I was under the impression harlots did more standing and laying than running. I mean, unless this is like a Jack the Ripper scenario, but that's more a corner case.

Well, I have to admit that I cannot stand all those high-profile megawads out there, which particularly goes for Alien Vendetta, but stuff like Memento Mori and Hell Revealed is also high on my list of stuff to avoid.

Memfis said:

I once had an idea for a wad where all maps would start in front of the exit switch. It's up to the player to decide if they want to play at all.

That would probably be my favorite SS run.

I think people are too dismissive toward joe-ilya's maps. His maps are really fun to play.

i actually like the Earth and Phobos wads, even though the gameplay is pretty crap. i dunno if this is an unpopular opinion in itself though, since it's actually on the top 100 list of Doom wads.

and again not really an unpopular opinion, but i find it funny that at least some people dislike BTSX's music, when The Darkening 2 is standing there with the single most bizarre soundtrack i have ever heard in a Doom mod. and i haven't heard a single complaint against it so far.

40oz said:

I think people are too dismissive toward joe-ilya's maps. His maps are really fun to play.

He has cool ideas but the execution is usually sub-par resulting in disappointment that he hasn't got his mapping skill nailed yet.

Getsu Fune said:

indeed, sniper barrage and action starts are the thing in modern wads that are incredibly irritating. Doomguy must catch his breath sometime, not fucking running around like a harlot into even more trouble than he needs just to find something good enough to kill the beasts with.

Action starts are as old as the hills. I was doing them back in '96, as you know -- Map19 and 22 of Realm of Chaos especially. I still like starting that way, and people still be complaining. ;D

Memfis said:

I once had an idea for a wad where all maps would start in front of the exit switch.

Yeah I purposely did that for my DWMP2015 map, so continuous players could just skip it if they don't feel like playing an +2500 monster slaughtermap. I also had an idea when I first started mapping for a series of maps where the first 2 levels were small adventures of the player stocking up on ammo/weapons/armor and could exit at any time, and the 3rd map was an extremely arduous and lengthy temple you could only beat if you were playing continuous. The idea for the temples alternated between a metallic hive submerged in a volcano, a typical hell mountain with a completely iced-over interior, and an amethyst ziggurat illuminated under a sea of stars. Might still do that some day.

Da Werecat said:

Sandy? Polish? In the first Doom?

Ummmmmm.

I mean, in a very comparative sense. :P I always felt his Doom 2 stuff is so chaotic and wildly inconsistent that his Ultimate Doom stuff feels a lot more grounded and cohesive in comparison. But then, maybe it's because all the best ones I can think of are Tom Hall fixer-uppers.

I'd say Sandy's first Doom levels are terrific. Granted, credit to Tom Hall as well. Episode 2 is just terrific.

I like Sandy's levels in general. I guess that's a pretty unpopular opinion.

SteveD said:

Action starts are as old as the hills. I was doing them back in '96, as you know -- Map19 and 22 of Realm of Chaos especially. I still like starting that way, and people still be complaining. ;D

Action starts are best starts.

As for my unpopular opinion:
E3 > E2 >>>>> E1.

Cynical said:

Action starts are best starts.

If you have guns and ammo, in my humble opinion. A shotgun preferably.

PsychoGoatee said:

If you have guns and ammo, in my humble opinion. A shotgun preferably.

Even a BFG if you plan an initial attack that's heavy enough.

Memfis said:

I once had an idea for a wad where all maps would start in front of the exit switch. It's up to the player to decide if they want to play at all. It kind of gives the game a different feel since you're not forced to do anything. I know some levels like this, X.WAD for example (incidentally, the best x-rated wad I've ever played).

This idea is so Memfis.

Ribbiks said:

those were pretty much written off as a failed experiment though iirc. finding them was just an exercise in using db2, and it pretty much removed all interestingness from UV-speed runs.

poor execution maybe, but decent idea. I'm definitely in support of allowing the player access to the exit with a considerable amount of optional content remaining. let's people who dig the map/atmosphere hang around a bit longer, allows tourists-with-typewriters to ditch as soon as they want.

I like it when the player has the choice between leaving ASAP and enduring a tough-as-hell (given limited provisions) last fight, or staying longer to collect additional weapons and resources.

Another idea: the last fight has a horde of archies or cluster of cybers or whatever, and you have optional side quests that trigger the death of some (but not all) of them. I always like strategic options like this.

PsychoGoatee said:

If you have guns and ammo, in my humble opinion. A shotgun preferably.

No-resource starts are some of my favorites. I like fights that start off with the player having insufficient resources, forcing them to dance around monsters and incentivizing them to willingly go into the middle of groups or hordes. :)

Cynical said:

As for my unpopular opinion:
E3 > E2 >>>>> E1.

Smh. Almost exactly backwards. :D

I like Evilution and Plutonia 2 , I thought that Plutonia 2 has a lot of personality and a lot better than the Original, I thought that The Original Plutonia was laking a lot, and I think that the authors were good,but the same old repetitive stuff held it back.

Earth.wad was super impressive in the 90's for the first 10 seconds due to the crashing waves. Other than that it was fairly generic, but it has it's place in history.

Dragonfly said:

dwango6.wad

Is.. This a good thing, or bad thing? I think Dwango6 is generally superior to 5, in any case.

Memfis said:

I once had an idea for a wad where all maps would start in front of the exit switch.

Not exactly the same, but in UAC Rebellion, you can pick multiple different paths to play through. Halfway through some maps there's a first exit which will take you to a map that can be entirely skipped, however if you choose not to go in the first exit and play through to the end of said map, you can skip other maps entirely. I did the for the sake of replayability, though considering how saturated the "market" is - Even more so than 7 years ago - I don't really bother with that anymore. Perhaps I should go back to that if I start making SP/Coop stuff again.