Freedoom 1.0 will be vanilla-compatible

fair enough, i would prefeer them not appear in the "alternative wad" because i would feel my maps were more like "rejected" if they appear there, you know kinda the guy who get into a team but they dont going to play unless one of the team member hurt his leg.

well i guess im going to use them in other projects.

Here is my analysis of vanilla-compatibility of current Freedoom maps, based purely on looking at the maps in visplane explorer (with doors opened).

As you can see, the situation with Phase 2 is a lot worse than with Phase 1. The good news, I guess, is that at least half of the maps will not require major work to be vanilla compatible.

Phase 1:

C1M2 : minor work
C1M3 : Ok
C1M4 : minor work
C1M8 : Ok
C1M9 : Ok

C1M1 : major work of outdoor area
C1M5 : major work in several areas
C1M6 : major work of outdoor area, plus another area
C1M7 : major work in SW and SE areas

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C2M1 : Ok
C2M3 : Ok
C2M4 : Ok
C2M6 : minor work
C2M7 : Ok
C2M8 : Ok

C2M2 : major work in two areas
C2M5 : major work in two areas (e.g. outdoor area in SE)
C2M9 : major work in two areas

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C3M1 : Ok
C3M2 : no map
C3M3 : no map
C3M4 : minor work
C3M5 : no map
C3M6 : probably minor work
C3M8 : Ok

C3M7 : major work in one area
C3M9 : major work in northern area, minor/medium in other areas

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E4M2 : minor work
E4M3 : Ok
E4M4 : Ok
E4M5 : Ok
E4M6 : Ok
E4M8 : Ok
E4M9 : Ok

E4M1 : major work in large SW area
E4M7 : major work in approx two areas

MAP01 : Ok
MAP02 : minor/medium work
MAP03 : minor work in one area
MAP05 : minor work
MAP09 : no map

MAP04 : major work
MAP06 : medium/major work in northern outdoor area
MAP07 : major work in central area
MAP08 : major work in several areas

MAP10 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable

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MAP11 : minor work
MAP14 : Ok
MAP16 : medium work in NE area
MAP17 : minor work for visplanes, major for drawsegs

MAP18 : major work in central area, also in N

MAP12 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP13 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP15 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP19 : left side of map is off the scales!
MAP20 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable

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MAP21 : Ok
MAP23 : minor work
MAP26 : Ok
MAP27 : Ok
MAP29 : minor work for visplanes, major for drawsegs
MAP30 : Ok
MAP32 : Ok

MAP31 : major work in several areas
MAP22 : major work in several areas, perhaps not salvagable

MAP24 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP25 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP28 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable

andrewj said:

MAP07 : major work in central area

A vanilla compatible version was made public yesterday. Downside is that it's even uglier than the original version (IIRC it was one of the earliest maps in Freedoom).

andrewj said:

MAP08 : major work in several areas

It's mostly the awful and uninspired copy'n'paste ceiling lights job. Those should be easily be replaceable with something that creates much fewer visplanes without making the ceiling completely bland. This map could use some more varied texturing anyway (and gameplay changes, progression is kind of obscure in 1 or 2 places).

andrewj said:

MAP22 : major work in several areas, perhaps not salvagable

I guess detail could be easily stripped from the northern room without making it too ugly. The real problem will be the the north-west and south-west edge of the western outdoor area, since it doesn't even have really obvious detail clutter in sight.

Looking again at MAP08, it is really the doors which pile on the visplanes when they are all open at the same time (a line of sight going roughly north which spans five detailed rooms).

Just changing how that whole top section connects to the room with imps on computery pedestals -- drops visplanes in the worst effected spot from 233 to 203. Simplifying those ceiling lights would indeed help a lot too.

P.S. woah, removing the outer trim on those lights and merging the light sectors when possible -- that worst spot has dropped from 203 to 133.

Small change for phase 2 map27 (only affects deathmatch play):

* change the southeastern teleporter pad in the marble arena to be 32 above the platform, rather than 8
* change a linedef somewhere early in the map that the player must unavoidably cross in sp/coop to a 36 W1 lower floor to 8 above floor, tagged to the above teleporter pad

This prevents players from escaping the deathmatch area (I had previously implemented this via Boom's enhanced difficulty bits by having the destination object be "not in DM" but in vanilla the only mode option is "multiplayer only" so this is no longer possible) while ensuring the teleporter is accessible at that point in gameplay in single player (making the trigger linedef sufficiently early also masks the effect cosmetically).

I'd do it myself, but I don't have an editor handy at the moment.

Would this mean the end for the switch hunting, keys which are a drag to find, and boring non-doom styled levels ?

i think we need a veteran vanilla mapper to serve as adviser for the project

I'm fine as long as it runs on PrBoom +, which IMO is good recreation of vanilla for me.

Guys, I think we need to make a mega thread just for submiting maps reworked for vanilla compability. There's been a few threads with vanilla map submission already, and I think it would be better if it was kept all in one thread, not only for convenience, but also to avoid cluthering the forum.

HorrorMovieGuy said:

Guys, I think we need to make a mega thread just for submiting maps reworked for vanilla compability. There's been a few threads with vanilla map submission already, and I think it would be better if it was kept all in one thread, not only for convenience, but also to avoid cluthering the forum.

Well, there are tons of maps and merging all of the talk into a single thread will just bloat it and cause it difficult to find.

There should however be a sticky thread which points to other threads for maps which have been Vanilla compatibalized.

I agree with GhostlyDeath. The MAP08 thread alone has 16 posts right now. Granted, not all maps might have such lively discussion, but threads without posts will simply age out.

Fair enough. We just need to organize the submissions in such a way that they don't get lost amongst the other threads and eventually forgotten.

Pretty disappointed with this decision - even more map churn rather than focussing on finishing things that needing doing, IMHO - but I respect it as your decision to make.

andrewj said:

C2M6 : minor work

Mmm? What need to be done there?

CWolfRu said:

Mmm? What need to be done there?

One room has visplane overflows, all those sky holes -- just need to simplify them.



(the bright white areas are visplane overflows, bright orange/yellow is close to overflow and should be reduced)

andrewj said:

One room has visplane overflows, all those sky holes -- just need to simplify them.

(the bright white areas are visplane overflows, bright orange/yellow is close to overflow and should be reduced)

Oh, that thing... okay I'll fix it.

I have a another suggestion. Most (but not all) ports can play .midi files. In order to support the ones that don't (most notably...Doom95...bleh) can the soundtrack for freedoom 1.0 consist of mus files?

No. All ports can play MIDI, and even vanilla Doom was capable of it.

andrewj said:

One room has visplane overflows, all those sky holes -- just need to simplify them.

http://oblige.sourceforge.net/shots/c2m6_room.png

(the bright white areas are visplane overflows, bright orange/yellow is close to overflow and should be reduced)

First thing that popped into my mind on seeing that was "that's a bloody big abstract spider", so I decided to reduce the sector count and re-interpret it as one of the Nazca Plains line figures to see how much of a difference that made to the visplane count.

Catoptromancy said:

The repo already has a vanilla modded map. I suggest we make a megawad of 0.10 maps to preserve them and maybe release them on idgames.

I already made a similar WAD several years ago from old Freedoom graphics. I think it's a nice idea to do a new one for levels.

GreyGhost said:

First thing that popped into my mind on seeing that was "that's a bloody big abstract spider", so I decided to reduce the sector count and re-interpret it as one of the Nazca Plains line figures to see how much of a difference that made to the visplane count.

It's good. But, ermn... it's not that symbol for part of station now...

----

I've updated my map a bit. Changed starting area by deleting "spider" section. Now there's just some lump on ceil.

There.

CWolfRu said:

It's good. But, ermn... it's not that symbol for part of station now...

----

I've updated my map a bit. Changed starting area by deleting "spider" section. Now there's just some lump on ceil.

There.

This looks good, and plays in Vanilla fine. If you want to submit these changes, try my pull request guide

If you guys still need help whit vanilla editing for phase 1 i can help, since i got off for too much time i dont know how the stuffs are actually, also i dont want to work in phase 2 maps.

someone can list something recently for me (about vannila in FD1)?
if it take more than 1 week im going by myself (to edit the maps thats is listed up there for episode 1).