Brutal Doom V2b - Release Date

It's out! :)

I must say that's a superb amount of work by Sgt. Mark IV - good job!

I have a question though - the starter pack is based on freedoom, but the monsters look just like in commercial releases. Is it legal to include them in the package, or are they somehow different (higher resolution?) but simply reminiscent of the original ones?

EDIT: I just noticed that it features music from "Quake II" as well :o

Patrol1985 said:

the starter pack is based on freedoom, but the monsters look just like in commercial releases. Is it legal to include them in the package

That's what worries me. I guess it's just me, but the fact that it includes resources from Doom II AND can be played with the Freedoom IWAD might not make id or ZeniMax happy.

Also, I fail to see why Mark decided to include gzdoom-g2.1.pre-1262-g61e09da (the build from August 12, 2015) in the starter pack and not the latest development build.

Is Sgt.Mark a member in these forums anyway ?

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Is Sgt.Mark a member in these forums anyway ?

Yeah, he's a real "Brutal Member" yo: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/members/Sergeant_Mark_IV/

There are countless resources used in these maps that are not attributed to their respective authors; not even a passing mention in the txt file. That is a huge community no-no especially for a project of this magnitude.

Patrol1985 said:

I have a question though - the starter pack is based on freedoom, but the monsters look just like in commercial releases. Is it legal to include them in the package, or are they somehow different (higher resolution?) but simply reminiscent of the original ones?

Brutal Doom v20b contains extra rotations for all monsters either the ones that Romero posted earlier this year, or simple name changes to make all 8 rotations work properly, which replaces almost all monster sprites. And some monsters such as the chaingunguy, archvile, and cacodemon have different styles. (Chaingunguy has an actual minigun, Cacodemon is darker, Archvile has horns, etc)

Scuba Steve said:

There are countless resources used in these maps that are not attributed to their respective authors; not even a passing mention in the txt file. That is a huge community no-no especially for a project of this magnitude.

Map resources, specially textures are pretty hard to track. Just post a list of resources and it's creators, and I will include on the moddb page.

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Map resources, specially textures are pretty hard to track. Just post a list of resources and it's creators, and I will include on the moddb page.

As the mod maintainer that should be your job.

That's your responsibility, not the artists. It will probably require a weekend of forum posting to track down some of the resources (Espi's textures). Others are obvious (3D realms).

rf` said:

As the mod maintainer that should be your job.

Most of the resources where taken from mods that doesn't properly credit the resource creators. The trees made by Doom_Jedi for example, I took them from NeoDoom, but the creator didn't mention it, and I just recently found about the author.

Scuba Steve said:

(Espi's textures). Others are obvious (3D realms).

Updated Moddb description and included them.

The music that plays on the first level, that's the music from the FPS scene from the Doom movie right? It sounds so familiar.

Hey Mark, you're aware that you didn't include Freedoom's COPYING file, right? You should do that.

Sodaholic said:

Hey Mark, you're aware that you didn't include Freedoom's COPYING file, right? You should do that.

To be clear, according to Freedoom's license, you have to include the copyright notice and the license for the assets that you used.

The file is here:
https://github.com/freedoom/freedoom/blob/master/COPYING

To make it clear that the entire starter pack isn't under this license, just name which assets you used at the top. You mentioned Map02, Map03, Map07, Map11, and Map28 in the moddb description.

Sodaholic said:

Hey Mark, you're aware that you didn't include Freedoom's COPYING file, right? You should do that.

Sorry. I'm going to update the Starter Pack this week to fix some bugs related to maps, and I will remember to do that.

You should also include a more robust txt file or "resources" section to the manual so users know where resources were obtained. (I know it's on the moddb website, but it's rather labyrinthine and I had difficulty finding them)

i can officially vouch that the map pack absolutely rules.
i am having an insanely good time.
and i am only on like map 6.


so give it a try, it is a very solid set of maps.

J.B.R said:

Saw the comments and lol, a flame war between the boring Doom fad mod aka Complex Doom and Brutal Doom.
Guess it's hard to put dif(f)erences aside and accept that both have pros and cons.

seriously.

Played the first 6 maps myself, they are pretty awesome. The levels have plenty of realistic setting to them but also nice level design to keep things interesting. I could learn from these maps.

Speaking of credits:

The player burning to death sprites are definitely from Strife.

Oh, the chainsaw in Classic mode is the same in Modern modern(black gloves and wind up).

Sgt Mark IV, is the Memorial map a seperate wad? Please be seperate.

I reached Map11 and loving it for the most part.

I feel a little depressed now, by the time I finished playing map 09 'Bio Labs' I realized how much my Megawad in development is just a big unintentional copy and coincidentally sharing the exact same themes. I literally have a map called biochemical labs and a separate level with demons inside test tubes etc. However my maps can't compare to sgt.marks starter pack, his details are amazing and uses much less hall ways and doorways than me.

The project I have been working so hard on now feels redundant. But I guess since it's for Brutal Doom v19 it can be treated as a poor man's BD Megawad.

I am in love with brutal 20b and the map pack. Why's it called a starter pack by the way?

IMO, this is Doom 4 and helps me forget the depression from the slowpace of the actual Doom 4 previews. The enemies don't stop and glow in this one waiting for a finisher, they moan and groan and shoot at you from their knees etc.. much better.

RottingZombie said:

Why's it called a starter pack by the way?

To the best of my knowledge, it's called that because it's provided for free in the package, which allows you to "start playing from there" and expand further with commercial IWADs and / or PWADs if one so wishes.

As for the levels themselves, they're awesome. Me and my friends decided to do the first playthrough in co-op mode, before we learn the maps ourselves. It was fantastic - we had lots of laughter getting slaughtered because we fell into a trap together etc. :D Here is a picture from yesterday's session :)

Tried this out. It's a needed improvement from 20.

A bit of feedback:

-The zombies drop unusable Assault Rifles to the classic player class. Perhaps have the classic player have an item that the zombies detect upon death so that they drop a clip instead of the assault rifle?

Downloaded it today. A lot of fun and it seems to be a nice take on the original levels so far. That said, am I the only one who's experiencing the chaingun sounding weird on alt fire mode?

Another issue: Evil marines seem to not be affected by the "Vanilla Monsters" parameter, making a potential gameplay imbalance with pwads that use them, such as Bloodstain. (BS seems to have a rifle marine while the Brutal one consistently uses a plasma rifle)

Patrol1985 said:

As for the levels themselves, they're awesome. Me and my friends decided to do the first playthrough in co-op mode, before we learn the maps ourselves. It was fantastic - he had lots of laughter getting slaughtered because we fell into a trap together etc. :D Here is a picture from yesterday's session :)

http://i.imgur.com/y0JfSYG.jpg

that. looks. so. fun.

anyone wanna co-op it up?

cortlong50 said:

that. looks. so. fun.

anyone wanna co-op it up?

Just head to your Server browser and look for any server running brutalv20b and the hellonearthstarterpack, there are few still active .

you know what fuckin sucks though?

ive been working on a map pack for almost a year now that has almost every single aspect that this pack has as far as city warfare. all the ambient noises, the garbage, the same rooms and set ups of buildings and teleporter technology set ups and stuff. and even though the whole fight on earth scene has been done i really wanted to bring it to life and i think sarge kinda beat me to it.


damn dude, im kinda feeling crushed right now, ive busted ass on that pack haha. and mines a little more detailed but probably not as fun to play.

crushed. into tiny ass pieces is my soul.

cortlong50 said:

you know what fuckin sucks though?

ive been working on a map pack for almost a year now that has almost every single aspect that this pack has as far as city warfare. all the ambient noises, the garbage, the same rooms and set ups of buildings and teleporter technology set ups and stuff. and even though the whole fight on earth scene has been done i really wanted to bring it to life and i think sarge kinda beat me to it.


damn dude, im kinda feeling crushed right now, ive busted ass on that pack haha. and mines a little more detailed but probably not as fun to play.

crushed. into tiny ass pieces is my soul.

Steal their best ideas and resources so you improve your pack and you come out on top in the end! Players win, too!

Name it "Brutal Doom Blaster Pack" or something.

cortlong50 said:

that. looks. so. fun.

It was! One of the guys who participated asked at one point if DOOM has BFG in it (he had never played DOOM before and only knew the weapon from Quake). We nearly kicked him :P :P :P

I Only have 1 Complain about the levelpack, For fences use "Walkable Middle Textures" (3D Mid Textures) instead of completely setting them to impassable .

VGA said:

Steal their best ideas and resources so you improve your pack and you come out on top in the end! Players win, too!

Name it "Brutal Doom Blaster Pack" or something.

i dont know if youre being sarcastic but im totally on it haha, i want it to feel like valhalla, play like hellbound, suck you in like hellground and hopefully show the invasion the way it was supposed to be. which is exactly why i love this hell on earth pack sarge did, nobody has done it right, and he really came through. so im hoping to see a lot of new packs like this.
itll be called sevenhorns/seveneyes because thats metal as shit. and apocalypse stuff rules.
not trying to shamelessly plug my pack but heres the shots, hopefully the art and design will set it apart from sarges pack. if you wanna play test it by all means ill send you the pack.

also dont judge too hard, this is my first pack.

http://imgur.com/a/JlE1K

Patrol1985 said:

It was! One of the guys who participated asked at one point if DOOM has BFG in it (he had never played DOOM before and only knew the weapon from Quake). We nearly kicked him :P :P :P

hahahaha im sorry but i have to give you guys credit, i wouldve dropped him like a bad habit haha. "damn it greg,how do you not know that!?" lately ive been running into quake over doom fans...for shame.