THT: Threnody - released!

Downloaded the beta, really nice stuff. 20 awesome levels. The music is great, especially the music in MAP20. Also loved that James Paddock midi named "Control" in MAP07, great song, here it is on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iryaRpiJ-eM

My two maps are all good and are the up to date versions.

That problem with the trees in MAP02 cannot be fixed because of a limitation in the Doom engine (since it is really not a true 3D engine and 3D floors are impossible in Boom format) but I think Christian has sorted this out. The trees could always be moved closer to the ledge and away from the exit doorway or just deleted.

In MAP20, there are some missing sky transfers (Sector 651, 650 and 652 and maybe others) since most the sky transfers are set to tag 46. In order to fix this there needs to be a sky transfer added with a tag of 0. So linedef 13160 is set to action type 271 with a tag of 0, this will fill in all tag 0 skies because this map is so detailed. A lot of people don't know this but sky transfers actually work with tag 0.

Thanks for the advice and input, Paul. You are right, I've fixed map02 and it works better now. As for map20, I'll get on it right away. It was a lot of work to implement sky transfers in that map, so I'm not really surprised to hear that it didn't work 100% :)

On my first run through, so far ive found a couple of homs.

map 07 lines 1487,1647,2971,2070,2069,2290 missing textures

Map 09 The cars in the garage area have textures missing, the roof of the red car and a window on a silver car.

Very impressed with the maps, some stunning maps in there. Some fucking hard ones as well :-)

A couple of ideas..

1. The tech lamps set into the floor on map 02 look great, until you get up to them. how about we use the commander keen "things" and some dehacked to add lamps that fit perfectly?

2. Demos for the start up?

3. the credits screen you made doesn't seem to come up, how about making one to override the prboom+ one?

4. after map 20 and the final intermission, how about a basic end map rather than going on to suburbs? something small with no monsters and no exit, maybe to complete the adventure/mission?

Chris Hansen said:

Thanks for the advice and input, Paul. You are right, I've fixed map02 and it works better now. As for map20, I'll get on it right away. It was a lot of work to implement sky transfers in that map, so I'm not really surprised to hear that it didn't work 100% :)

Very simple fix. Just add a new sky transfer tagged 0 and that will fix all untagged sky transfers.

Liberation said:

On my first run through, so far ive found a couple of homs.

map 07 lines 1487,1647,2971,2070,2069,2290 missing textures

I'll take a look at it.

Map 09 The cars in the garage area have textures missing, the roof of the red car and a window on a silver car.

Someone beat you to it, but thanks anyway! :)

Very impressed with the maps, some stunning maps in there. Some fucking hard ones as well :-)

A couple of ideas..

1. The tech lamps set into the floor on map 02 look great, until you get up to them. how about we use the commander keen "things" and some dehacked to add lamps that fit perfectly?

I'll see what I can do. I was never really that satisfied with them anyway.

2. Demos for the start up?

Yup, will definitely see what we can do about that. Been thinking about it too.

3. the credits screen you made doesn't seem to come up, how about making one to override the prboom+ one?

What port do you use? Is it exclusive to our project or is the port's "fault"? :)

4. after map 20 and the final intermission, how about a basic end map rather than going on to suburbs? something small with no monsters and no exit, maybe to complete the adventure/mission?

Now you mention it, I actually think that we get the third intermission text after map 20 if I'm not mistaken. I'll write a fitting end that goes with the story. Map 20 is our final map and I think it's best that it's the end map.


Thanks for submitting your feedback!

I'm using prboom+.

Point 4, I didn't really explain that correctly.. basically I hate it when you finish a map set then it loads the next doom iwad level, just suggesting having something to stop that..

Chris asked me about this already, but the CREDIT graphic will show up in PrBoom+ after the second demo is finished playing.

I got around to playtesting a bit of alpha 1, and right now I've finished up to MAP09. So far its been really enjoyable, though I think a couple maps could use a some tweaking (might just be me though :P).

I've recorded demos of each map and took notes on my thoughts plus bugs that I found. I also took screenshots of problem areas (which are referenced in my notes) to better help with bug reports. So here's a zip file with all of the demos, screenshots, and a text file filled with my reports.

http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/mekastuff/wads/ty/tht-alpha1-mekfeedback-map1thru9.zip

Demos were recorded in PrBoom+ cl9. I played on UV pistol start, though most of these demos aren't FDAs (especially on the latter maps, I died a bunch before recording a successful demo). Please note that most of my gameplay-related feedback comes from my general thoughts as I'm playing. So take it with a grain of salt...but hopefully its helpful :)

I'll try and do this for the rest of the maps if I have the time.

Cheers, Mech! I'll take a look at it as soon as possible. I've been busy making small fixes to most of the maps already. The more feedback the better!

Everything looks fantastic overall, this has really rolled out well.

The spacing on the map names and author names on the intermission screen are all inconsistent. They are on the credit pic as well, but unless the background is saved without the text, it might be a bitch to fix.

I'm happy to iron that out over the next few days if anyone wants, and fix the spacing on the credit pic as well, if that background is around in-tact :)

pcorf said:

The music is great, especially the music in MAP20.

:D

Doomkid said:

The spacing on the map names and author names on the intermission screen are all inconsistent. They are on the credit pic as well, but unless the background is saved without the text, it might be a bitch to fix.

I'm happy to iron that out over the next few days if anyone wants, and fix the spacing on the credit pic as well, if that background is around in-tact :)

Damn, you're nitpicky aren't you! Is it some sort of paypack!? ;) :D Don't worry about it, I'll take care of it. It's my mistake anyway and I kinda already knew it wasn't perfect. I just never thought anyone would notice or care about it, hehe! I was wrong it would seem! :D

Chris Hansen said:

Damn, you're nitpicky aren't you! Is it some sort of paypack!? ;) :D Don't worry about it, I'll take care of it. It's my mistake anyway and I kinda already knew it wasn't perfect. I just never thought anyone would notice or care about it, hehe! I was wrong it would seem! :D

That is the Doom community for you.

We are all fussy, we want everything to be perfect!

If anyone is interested to hear what 'Flood The City' sounds like recorded, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyZE0UIVPS0

Mechadon said:

I got around to playtesting a bit of alpha 1, and right now I've finished up to MAP09. So far its been really enjoyable, though I think a couple maps could use a some tweaking (might just be me though :P).

I've recorded demos of each map and took notes on my thoughts plus bugs that I found. I also took screenshots of problem areas (which are referenced in my notes) to better help with bug reports. So here's a zip file with all of the demos, screenshots, and a text file filled with my reports.

http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/mekastuff/wads/ty/tht-alpha1-mekfeedback-map1thru9.zip

Demos were recorded in PrBoom+ cl9. I played on UV pistol start, though most of these demos aren't FDAs (especially on the latter maps, I died a bunch before recording a successful demo). Please note that most of my gameplay-related feedback comes from my general thoughts as I'm playing. So take it with a grain of salt...but hopefully its helpful :)

I'll try and do this for the rest of the maps if I have the time.

Just wanted to let you know, that I've been slowly but steadily going through your superb feedback and have been implementing a lot of changes based on it as well as feedback from some of the other members of the team. Keep it coming, guys! :)

KevinHEZ said:

If anyone is interested to hear what 'Flood The City' sounds like recorded, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyZE0UIVPS0

Now that's my kinda music! My taste in music is rooted somewhere in between Filter, Chemical Brothers, Nine Inch Nails and Tool. It probably doesn't describe this track very well, but I think it somehow explains why I like your track :)

You nailed every single influence there! Thanks man.

Hey I'm glad my feedback is of some help! Hopefully some of the things I'm suggesting aren't too much work.

Anyways, here's some more demos+feedback for you guys. This time for MAP11-15:

http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/mekastuff/wads/ty/tnt-alpha1-mekfeedback-map11thru15.zip

So far MAP12 is the only map thus far that I haven't been able to complete in one sitting on UV. I've got a really long failed demo in the zip. I did a godmode run through so I could see the rest of the map and report any other bugs I found. I might do a HMP run of it later.

There's also a game breaking bug in MAP15. I've included two demos for it; one complete demo and another where I get stuck and can't finish the level. Hopefully I described it well enough in the text file.

I'll keep going with the remaining 5 maps if I have the time. So far its been a lot of fun though!

Mechadon said:

Anyways, here's some more demos+feedback for you guys. This time for MAP11-15:

Thanks for the FDA and detailed feedback!

Yes, I noticed some glitches you mentioned during my alpha test(I'm currently working on MAP17), such as sleeping cacodemons. There were a couple of misplaced linedefs that caused the glitch, and it's now fixed for the edited version. I'm going to fix my level by myself whenever the glitch is found, and I'll send the fixed version to Chris. The next fixed version will be sent when I get more feedback during the public beta.

And yes, the chandelier sprite, GOR1A0 to GOR1C0, is a little bit misaligned, and I suggest to edit the x-axis offset from 17~18 to 25. About the chaingunner from the beginning, I'm going to make the player easier to grab that chaingun by giving the access to that place. Not to mention that I'll make it more friendly to access to the switch that lowers the yellow key. Some combats that you mentioned should be adjusted, too. About the lava pit in front of exit switch, you can climb up the wall to try again if you fall down to the pit. But I'll make the platform wider to make it easier to pass.

About the first secret:

Mech, thanks for the fantastic feedback, texture-misalignment reports, and demo! It was a great watch! I noted a few things from your demo and a few from the text file. Unfortunately this is my second time typing this so I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things.

For starters, I noticed that my stair fix for the crate room was not present in this alpha, meaning that this is not the current version of the map. I think the stairs were all that was different though, but sorry about that probably boring slog-fest.

I also noted the "disaster area" sign didn't trap you in like it was supposed to (near where you died); I'll have to see if I can't tighten that up and make it faster.

The SS you were trying for, iirc requires SR-50 to get. SR-50 over to the box with the plasma ammo on top of it then walk over to the SS.

The secret CG really only applies to the first crate room; entering the doors to the east or south reveals chaingunners. As for the switch, I'll talk it over with Z0k, as that's something he added and I wouldn't want to change it without consulting with him first.

Screenie 3: It was cool watching you figure it out, but I'm gonna have to disagree here as that's the final piece to the PG puzzle.

As for ammo, there should be enough around for each encounter located locally; backtracking shouldn't be necessary. I tested every encounter from nothing but weapons (I wasn't rushed making this map, luckily), so I'm sure there's enough around. As for the mass of ammo atop the crates in the crate rooms, that's all meant to be extra, in case you need it or as a reward if you like platforming. I did, perhaps, space ammo apart a bit much on this map, though. For the backpack, there is one in the main secret of the map, which you were very close to, btw; I was shocked you didn't find it in the demo :P

Screenshot 5: I agree in a way; it could be more conspicuous. I'll see what I can do.

Screenshot 6: perhaps I should just raise him out of the ground to come at you with the revs.

Screenshot 7: hey; it's your sky ;p
Seriously though, I'll see what I can do.

The crushers near end: the clue is on the floor. I'm pretty sure I've seen that setup for a puzzle in a few places before. I suppose it'd be better if it were more conspicuous as well.

I think you're right about the health; more is rarely a bad thing anyway. This map is supposed to appear much worse than it is also so I'd rather be more forgiving with health.

Thanks again for the awesome, detailed feedback, as well as the demo and bug report! The demo was a great watch and the text detailed and sensible; if you do decide to go back for an HMP demo, I'll enjoy watching that as well. I'll also echo antares here and say thanks for contributing the fantastic Fomalhaut map to this project!



I have been slowly going through maps as well, getting some feedback together slowly but surely. Will post some sometime soon.

Playing on HNTR, up to MAP05, which has some decorations (i.e. hanging corpses) that get in the way a bit if infinitely tall actors are being used. One such corpse can be found in the room packed full of Barons/HKs by the BFG, and I've run into at least one other somewhere.

No other issues to report though, and I like what I'm playing so far :)

EDIT: basically, these guys suck:



EDIT 2: These 3 cacos in MAP06 just sat there doing nothing in ZDoom. Can't imagine it was intentional. Sorry if any of these were already reported

That is so strange, I don't remember placing those hanging bodies.. I generally try to only use the ones that can be passed under for this specific reason, actually.

Actually, is the map05 in the current build the old version, or Chris' version? The outdoor area had a ceiling that was too short, I'm sure he fixed it, but it seems to be reverted again. Will check once I'm home!

Yea there were quite a few blocking hanging corpses in that map; I think I reported all of those as well, but I can't remember if there were any others.

antares031 said:

About the first secret:

Spoiler

The rocket launcher secret is a homage of the first secret of TNT MAP04: Wormhole, where you can get the RL by lowering the metalbox with no obvious clue. Still, I'll put an extra switch to lower the lift somewhere around the start.

Again, thanks for the feedback. And thanks for the awesome Formalhaut level. :)

Hey glad my feedback was of some help :).

Gotcha on that RL secret, I didn't realize it was a homage. I think as a secret, that is totally fine. It just felt like the RL should be a part of the player's arsenal at the start since there's a bunch of enemies to cut through early on. It probably feels a lot better in HMP and lower, I bet, so it may not be as useful in that situation. Either way, if you still think adding a switch to activate that lift is a good idea, I certainly won't complain :)

Fonze said:

Screenie 3: It was cool watching you figure it out, but I'm gonna have to disagree here as that's the final piece to the PG puzzle.

Was that area meant to be completely off-track for the main progression of the map? If its just a side-area to get the PG, meant to be a puzzle, then I'd say its fine as-is. It was confusing a bit but I think I get the idea behind it (since the theme is meant to be some sort of unstable dimensional area, right?). It is confusing though, and I'm not sure how many players will think to go back into the second vent to teleport to the new vent.

Fonze said:

As for ammo, there should be enough around for each encounter located locally; backtracking shouldn't be necessary. I tested every encounter from nothing but weapons (I wasn't rushed making this map, luckily), so I'm sure there's enough around. As for the mass of ammo atop the crates in the crate rooms, that's all meant to be extra, in case you need it or as a reward if you like platforming. I did, perhaps, space ammo apart a bit much on this map, though. For the backpack, there is one in the main secret of the map, which you were very close to, btw; I was shocked you didn't find it in the demo :P

I have to think back at my playthrough now (which is a bit hazy since I've been trying to power through all of the maps). What I remember was the ammo was well balanced from area to area, but it felt really tight in some instances (mostly just for the 1st half of the map). I did run out of various ammo categories on occasion, and in my first few playthroughs I wanted to keep my stack as filled as possible since I didn't know what to expect. So I kept backtracking to fill up on ammo so I would be prepared as possible. In subsequent playthroughs I doubt it would be as much of an issue.

I'm generally terrible at finding secrets, so it doesn't surprise me that I didn't find the backpack :P

Fonze said:

Screenshot 6: perhaps I should just raise him out of the ground to come at you with the revs.

Yea that could help. Maybe chuck a 64x64 crate at the far end of the wall too so there's some cover a bit closer?

Fonze said:

I think you're right about the health; more is rarely a bad thing anyway. This map is supposed to appear much worse than it is also so I'd rather be more forgiving with health.

I think this is a good idea, but maybe only because I'm an average Doomer :P. But yea, if there was a bit more health spread around, I'd certainly enjoy that and it might knock a bit of the edge off for other average players like myself.

Fonze said:

Thanks again for the awesome, detailed feedback, as well as the demo and bug report! The demo was a great watch and the text detailed and sensible; if you do decide to go back for an HMP demo, I'll enjoy watching that as well. I'll also echo antares here and say thanks for contributing the fantastic Fomalhaut map to this project!

Very happy to help! And I'm glad you guys enjoyed my map, it was a pleasure making it and an honor to have it be a part of this project!

Yes, any hanging corpses with thing ID from 73 to 78 have infinite tall actor issue. Not only MAP05, but there are couple of levels have this trouble, such as MAP04 and MAP14. Still, isn't infinite tall actor allowed for boom-compatible wads?

EDIT: Nevermind. I've realized that -complevel 9 turns on infinite tall actor option. So need to fix this one.

I was gonna point this out with my more detailed feedback, but there was another hanging corpse in MAP05 not reported by Mech.

I think I might be the one to blame for placing those annoying, hanging bodies in Doomkids map. I've been busy changing them along with tons of other stuff in almost every map. The only maps I'm not touching are those from antares031 and Fonze as they prefer making the changes themselves.

Just to be clear, other than those bodies, every other change you made was a huge improvement and really is appreciated! :) By the way, was there a version of Map05 where you fixed the too-low-ceiling outside area in the middle, or am I just hallucinating again? If not I'll be happy to raise that roof, it looks odd with the sky "cutting off" the blue room, which is how I (absent mindedly) designed it in the first place.

I'm happy to hear you like the changes :) I try to be as true to the designer's material as possible when I make some changes. And if there's anything people don't like, then please let me know and I'll revert it! I'm not sure what I did wrong in Nukevil. I made a lot of changes to some areas and something must have gone wrong. I'll send you a copy of the most current version of your map and I'd love to get some help from you so that we can get it to work properly again :)

Yes, we are truly elitists ;D

Got time to type up some feedback on the few maps I've had the chance to play so far, here's a link with the text file for maps 1-6 as well as demos for each on UV.

Few things I'll point out here (rest are in text file):

MAP02:
- I liked the secrets in this map, though the backpack took me a while to figure out (couple playthroughs over the course of months since I first played this map); it's not really intuitive to hit "use" on that wall imo.

MAP03:
- One thing I gotta harp on again is the room directly after the blue door: that first switch you hit to open the door to the south could really use a pair of shotgunners teleporting onto the blue floor atop the stairs.
- I liked the trap near the end, but the imps that teleport below the switch just wind up forming a dangerous wall of infinitely tall enemies with melee attacks; perhaps delay them 10 or 15 seconds?
- Fun, creative secrets. Had to go back and find a few. The Computer map secret needs to be redone; it's easy to not trigger.

MAP05:
- The area outside of that blue passageway near the start could be toned down a bit, would have been Hell if I didn't play the way I did, also getting the SS beforehand. Also, it heavily encouraged door-camping with the massive damage rng with the multiple, close shotgunners.

MAP06:
- I have to again stress that the PE after the other BK door (with the fence) needs to be removed.
- Forgot to mention in text file; I got 3 100%'s for this map on UV, so everything checks out there.

Chris if you don't mind I would like to implement some of Mechadon's brilliant feedback myself!

Well done Mechadon for sussing out the sky issue, I didn't think you could align sky's so I will get that fixed as it was bugging me badly! I thought it was a render issue!

I already made some minor changes to your map. I even managed to catch some tiny, tiny wrong ceiling flats myself in the proces! :D Anyway, I'll send you a pm with a download link in case you want to work on my version.