[RELEASE] Mutiny (limit removing)

Thanks for the bug reports, guys. When I replay the same maps over and over and over I become blind to a lot of these things. I'll get these fixed up and update to RC2 by Sunday I think. Thanks again!

Hope you guys are having fun!

map 06 ...

a. Alignment issues lines 6832, 798, 6985.
b. Sectors 1096/1100/876 should do damage.
c. Notice that the textures either side of vertex 5651 do not match at the floor.
d. Having BFALL2 on lines 8930/8929 and FLOOR1_6 for the adjacent floors did not make sense to me.
e. Y alignment error line 1245, ,9027, 9028, 1572 - front side - midrail.
f. By moving the control sectors - 268,269 and 270, as far away from the play area as possible, eliminates ( or at least greatly reduces ) the cluck sound at the bridge - sector 268.

map 08 ...

a. Has Boom linetype 85.
b. Midfenc1 bleeds through the floor at sector 128 in software.
c. Seemed a bit strange that the floor of sector 645 was LAVA1.

map09 ...

a. Y offset error at lines 1115 and 354 back side. MIDBARS3.
b. The floor flat of sector 256 should probably be ROCK17.
c. As far as I can tell, it is impossible to get to the secret sector, since line 2083 is flagged impassible.

map 10 ...

a. Like line 1481, use SW1BRCOM for line 1476, since the brown part of SW1DIRT moves when using the switch. Just a bad use of patches. Compare with SW2DIRT. Might be worth checking all instances of SW1/2DIRT through the whole wad.
b. Y alignmemt issue between lines 2934 and 1949.
c. It looks as though T656 might not cross line 6069, and just turn around and use the teleporter. Important ?

map 11 ...

a. Secret sector 502 doesn't damage, yet adjacent sector has the same floor flat.
b. It is possible to go from sector 480, which doesn't do damage, to sectors 489, 507 and 475, which do. There may be others in this area.

map 12 ...

a.Sector 76 should do damage.
b.SW1TEK does not animate on line 2176 because SW1BLUE is on the upper. Intentional ?

map 15 ...

a. I thought it a bit odd that lines 2040 and 2043 do the same action, but only line 2043 has the switch texture. Same at lines 2175 and 1989.
b. It is possible to get to sector 1276 from sector 812. As such sector 968 should do damage.
c. Alignment issues lines 5967, 5928 etc.

... Finally finished playing this. Quite enjoyable. :)

You're doing God's work, hawkwind. Thank you immensely for the detailed evaluation. I should have RC2 up either tonight or tomorrow morning in time for Thursday Night Survival tomorrow!

Noticed something in map06:
Sectors 1817 and 1879 do damage, although I don't think they should.
Lines 8200 and 8203 lack the lower unpegged flag.

PS: The wad is great.

Thanks ClumsyDoomer

I corrected the errors reported in this thread and updated to RC2. Thanks again everyone!

RC2 ...

Oustanding Issues ...

map 03 ...

a. This refers to sector 270. Texture clash on superimposed lines 1195 and 3445. Really, a new texture should have been made.Or use SUPP9R32.OR use the same technique at line 3413 for example. Quite noticed in Risen3D and glBoom+.A mapping error.

b. Related to point a. Risen3D has a problem with the bottom\right sector 270. Caused by "sectors" 420 and 421 - mapping error.

c. Having WWAALL00 as the switch texture on lines 2825 and 3129 looked daft IMO.

d. Blood does damage at sector 414 but not at sector 275 etc..

GENERAL ...

Could still add this to the deh to fix the sprite hanging issue ...

Thing 109 (One-legged body 2)
Height = 5505024



New Issue ...

Map 09 ...

Due to changes with MIDBARS3, the texture on lines 3239, 3025, 3020 and 3027 bleeds into the floor in software.

Thursday Night Survival celebrates its 5th birthday today and it's Mutiny that will be played.

The session starts at 19:00 BST/14:00 EDT and I would like to invite you all as I believe this will be a great session with this great WAD!

More info can be found in the Doomworld post.

hawkwind said:

RC2 ...

Oustanding Issues ...

map 03 ...

a. This refers to sector 270. Texture clash on superimposed lines 1195 and 3445. Really, a new texture should have been made.Or use SUPP9R32.OR use the same technique at line 3413 for example. Quite noticed in Risen3D and glBoom+.A mapping error.

b. Related to point a. Risen3D has a problem with the bottom\right sector 270. Caused by "sectors" 420 and 421 - mapping error.

c. Having WWAALL00 as the switch texture on lines 2825 and 3129 looked daft IMO.

d. Blood does damage at sector 414 but not at sector 275 etc..

GENERAL ...

Could still add this to the deh to fix the sprite hanging issue ...

Thing 109 (One-legged body 2)
Height = 5505024



New Issue ...

Map 09 ...

Due to changes with MIDBARS3, the texture on lines 3239, 3025, 3020 and 3027 bleeds into the floor in software.

MAP03

a. and b., I couldn't reproduce these errors on my end (though i don't have risen3d installed) but I decided to do away with the blood trim and instead change the offsets to make the orange look more dirty.

c. this is a bit too subjective to me, as the wall indicates a secret area, and the hint was apparent to me. Any change I do I suspect would change the difficulty of the secret, so I'm gonna have to neglect this.

d. I was sure I did this already. Looked closer and found a 1px wide sector that still had it which i think would have been impossible to step on. I fixed it anyway.

GENERAL

a. I decided to comb through the maps and delete/replace any of that particular decoration. I only found one on MAP05 which is now replaced.

MAP09

a. fixed.

Thank you!

Updated to RC3.

General feedback time. Playing RC3 with glboom+ -complevel 2, UV and pistol starts.

Map01:

Clearly the map has been designed around the concept of giving the player two possible routes to reach the exit. The concept itself is fine, however here the routes feel strangely imbalanced in terms of length and content. The western path is very short and you can exit having visited maybe 40% of the map. Taking the eastern path means the player will visit 75% of the map or so the difference between the two paths is pretty big. A BK locked door to the exit area would balance things out pretty nicely I think but this is just my opinion of course. To me it felt like I was lead to take the western path too with the placement of the Berserk pack, and then when you turn around there you see the brightly lit doorway on the other side of the room which is much more inviting compared to the non-lit regular green door on your right.

Difficulty is very low and likely that was the intention so I can't really offer much feedback for that. Combat is mostly incidental and there's nothing you can't deal with with the SG. The SSG is pretty redundant in that sense and it's given very late in the map anyway. In regards to gameplay my favorite spot is probably the rising stairwell on the western path with the Cacos and a roadblock horde of Imps. It occurred to me after playing that you can put yourself in a pretty bad spot if you fall down before taking out most of the Imps since the teleport surprisingly takes you to the top of the stairs.

Map02:

I really like this map. Very fast paced gameplay and overall pretty dangerous monster placement. Hitscanners in this open map are bound to cause some frustration not to mention the couple of rather nasty traps involved with the berserk pack and the red key. I'm guessing the authors are trying to force the player to drop down after you open the exit with the switch by teleporting a large horde up there? If so, mission accomplished but after you're down the Imps and Demons up there are completely useless in terms of being a threat. How about replacing the mixed horde with a bunch of Cacos and PEs? They would produce the same effect initially and their flying abilities would make them effective afterwards as well.

Not a big fan of the cyberdemon that warps in at the end of MAP11. Just seems a bit unnecessary (it is very easy to run past him and go to the exit), plus I don't think I actually have the ammo to take him down.

MAP05, when sector 1392 raises in co-op, players left behind will be unable to progress; need a teleporter onto the lift to open nearby when the first player steps on to it.

MAP03
c. this is a bit too subjective to me, as the wall indicates a secret area, and the hint was apparent to me. Any change I do I suspect would change the difficulty of the secret, so I'm gonna have to neglect this.

While that is true for line 3129, it is not so for line 2825, required to open door sector 115, and gain access to the blue keycard. Unless, of course, access to sector 148 was intended to be a secret, since the blue keycard is not required to exit. You could then give sector 148 the secret flag.

minor ... Could give sectors 247 and 269 the same brightness of sector 167.

Reporting some more stuff discovered during TNS:

Chat string from MAP07 from the session log:

2016-08-18 22:41:17 <DaIcemann76> hom on the other side of the yk switch

In MAP08 it's possible to get stuck on the bridge leading to exit before it's raised as well as in the lava next to the bridge since it's not damaging. It's also easy to abuse this lowered bridge for a quick exit with enough players if infinitely tall actors are turned off :)

x38_ViTa_38 got stuck after doing some glides somewhere in MAP09 next to some lift near by a switch with SW2EXIT texture. I don't really consider that a bug but he wanted it to be reported :P

Somehow this HOM in MAP12 happened. No idea what caused it.

For some reason MAP15 completely broke near the end in 2nd rotation and there were HOMs everywhere:

I believe it was also impossible to progress so players had to be teleported by a script so the map could be exited. Unfortunately I can't provide any insight on this as I have no clue what caused this to happen.

Keyboard_Doomer said:

Somehow this HOM in MAP12 happened. No idea what caused it.

linedef #2309 has its own sector definition. It should be part of sector #623 same as linedefs #75 and #127

I think this got mucked up in the last change I made before sending to 40oz.

Map 07 sector 171 should do damage like sector 168. The damage effect gets cancelled when line 1137 is activated.

Map 01, got stuck where you drop down below to flick a switch in the container area with the ssg.

Firedust said:

Map 01, got stuck where you drop down below to flick a switch in the container area with the ssg.

You need to explore a little more ... ;)

hawkwind said:

You need to explore a little more ... ;)

I got stuck in some hole full of homs. I think there was supposed to be a platform that'd go up but apparently it didn't. Like you know when a monster is hidden underground and its platform doesn't raise and you end up falling down there.

Could have been the ole line-skip bug at work. It'd be more helpful if you could provide more info, like which route you took to reach the middle hub or a demo.

I found it. When I placed deathmatch items on the map, I was originally putting them in 32x32 squares sunken in the ground so you wouldn't see them in coop. At least until I found out later that nearby doors and moving floors could cause the items to raise up if they're bounding boxes are touching. I expanded the 32x32 floors to 44x44 so they wouldn't touch but I found out later that the player can still fall in a hole that size. I retroactively went through the levels and changed things back to 32x32 and moved the weapons as far away from moving floors and ceilings as possible to fix it but that was one that I must have missed.

It's fixed and will be corrected in the next release. Thank you firedust :)

Ah! A deathmatch issue. No wonder I, and many others, did not spot this. It should have been mentioned earlier.

Playthrough of map03, sloppy in the easiest part. :D

I like the non-linearity aspect and optional item quests. Cool map, reminds me of the Nefertiti ones and the Mayhem map in some of its geometry.

Some things:

1) Optional BK megasphere with the viles is trivialized by blocking the AVs' escape path. Doesn't seem to be intended to be a demanding fight anyway, but, idk, some imps or something warping into the end of the hallway could prevent that cheesy cheese. It also seemed like it was possible to kill these with the chaingun through a little hole, but I didn't bother because zzz.

2) That last arena was ridiculously mean in my original playthrough w/ saves, being incapable of seeing almost anything. Saving all the plasma in the map for it makes it not much of a problem though, even without some of the surplus spheres. Plasma secret is essentially a freebie, so I don't mind it being so useful, but an extra ~40 shells for that area would make PR use in the map more flexible, since you pretty much have to switch to the RL as soon as the PEs/souls are dead anyway, regardless of the surplus.

3) Would be nice if a way to get back from the dropdown from the "tyson/attrition path" with the PE/manc/revs/chaingunners fight opened up later in the map. Have to go all the way around to back to the baron lift as is, while the other path is a lot more smooth.

Currently on map 7. I used the automap cheat on zdoom and there seem to be a lot of empty teleporting monsters closets. Why are they there?

EDIT: How do you get the RL secret?

Was messing around with some maxes (the speed-running kind) on map31:

1) The first platform with the two cybers reaches the bottom quite slowly, leaving a boring wait after they are dead.

2) A cyber got stuck once in the teleport area, presumably because the teleport destination was blocked and then it got stuck on the lift.

3) Because of how the teleport areas are set up, some monsters warp in slowly, after having wandered all the way to the back of the sector.

I also meant to say that it's possible to linedef skip the teleporter to the exit sequence and get stuck. Redundant teleporters in the pit itself would be appreciated.

Overall this has the framework of a fun lower-pressure BFG spam map. I think it'd be significantly better with either about half the number of mancs & trons & revs in the final wave or (my preference) those monsters porting into additional spots situated around the area, preferably ~2x-3x as many. For elegance's sake, it's somewhat important that those spots be marked like the existing ones mostly are, maybe similar aesthetically. (My favorite motif is the green fall.) It would be nice if there were fewer inconvenient monsters such as the imps up in high areas. Buffing the threat level might be a good idea, as it really gets quite low soon, but it doesn't seem too possible without introducing PEs & viles & hitscanners.

Edit: If the monsters port in more quickly, don't forget about the exit coming down more quickly as well. :)

Here's a casual (not speed-optimized) UV-max. Some of the things I mentioned in the previous post pop up.

No secrets in this one, so unspoiled:

rdwpa said:

~40 shells

Was revisiting this post to make sure I didn't do something precisely like this! *cells, obv.

She sells seacells down by the seashore.

Firedust said:

Currently on map 7. I used the automap cheat on zdoom and there seem to be a lot of empty teleporting monsters closets. Why are they there?

EDIT: How do you get the RL secret?

If you mean those large four bottom right, they are multiplayer monsters.

and ..

All I'll say is linedef 1977 ... ;)

Actually, it might be worth making the lines for those closets, and the multiplayer start areas, hidden. And for any other maps too, if necessary.

More things to report.

Map03:
- it's possible to get stuck between the RL bars, nomo demo. Glide can still be a possibility to get out I guess, but then again - not everyone can do it.

Map05:
- the exit linedef can be skipped with ease, I'd suggest duplicating it to avoid confusion.

Map08:
- monsters can fall off the rear sides of these pedestals, thus preventing maxkills;
- is it intentional that the exit pit is inescapable should the player drop down there? If so, then it'd be a better idea whether to make the floor damaging or to make crushers unavoidable down there, not very elegant as it is now.

Demonologist said:

Map08:
- monsters can fall off the rear sides of these pedestals, thus preventing maxkills;

Use of monster blocking flag will fix that.

Demonologist said:

- is it intentional that the exit pit is inescapable should the player drop down there? If so, then it'd be a better idea whether to make the floor damaging or to make crushers unavoidable down there, not very elegant as it is now.

Previously reported by Keyboard_Doomer. Yes, there needs to be either teleports in the lava or make sector 43 a lift sector.

Map31 pacifist. Not even remotely polished and primarily meant for 40oz so that he can witness the grand cheesefest, hardly interesting to watch for anyone else due to its length and the fact that ~4 minutes of its running time is me standing in a corner waiting for the teleporter to lower.

hawkwind said:

Previously reported by Keyboard_Doomer.

Ah, indeed, mea culpa.