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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club plays: Alien Vendetta

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Pirx said:

just tried to have that dumbass vile in the same position as in the intermission screen.


This inspired me to make this:

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SteveD said:

But while we want attractive architecture in our maps, in Doom this architecture must also – and primarily – serve the purpose of creating interesting options for combat, and it is here where Toxic Touch stumbles. I suppose one could argue that Malde is quite obviously designing certain key combat scenarios to favor the monsters. You get lulled by the occasional platoon of SSG fodder, only to later find yourself at a door, with a room full of well-entrenched snipers ahead of you. The most horrid example of this was the multi-tiered Chaingunner-nest room just before the exit. The room is huge, but it's architecture is so involved that you are limited to small paths between nukage, which in this room is damaging, whereas elsewhere it was not. If Vorpal or Lee are reading this, I have to ask if there were discussions on this topic back in the day?

This room seeks to use a cork – a Spectre – who prevents you from entering and also blocks your shots at the Chaingunners. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I hate this meta-gamey tactic. I've seen it a million times by now and I hope that mappers will soon stop doing this because IMO it's boring. Aside from said Spectre, there are lines of unseen Sergeants hugging the wall. I was at 58% health with zero armor, so this was quite the pickle to be in. I was also concerned about my ammo and was reluctant to SSG the Spectre, but if I tried to punch it – I didn't find any secrets but I did find the Zerk! – even a brief burst from a Chaingunner could drop me by 20 – 30%. It was like being in a straitjacket. Not fun. So much for Doom being a game of speed and movement.

As often happens, I got frustrated and Ramboed the room a couple times, leading to quick deaths. Of course I promoted infighting among the Chaingunners, but there were so many of them that several were always disengaged and ready to perforate me. Fighting Sergeants at the door courted disaster from even a single hit.


SteveD, complaining about hitscanner assholery? Karma sure is a bitch, ain't it ;-)

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MAP10: Toxic Touch
95% kills, 0/2 secrets

Someone commented that they don't like one of the more modern approaches to mapping of having one theme throughout the whole level, insofar as much as you see the first room, you see it all. Well, texture-wise, that definitely applies to this map, as it's all green or brown brick and green sludge all the way through (well, okay, there's some greyish-green brick near the end). I'm fine with it here, though, since there's a lot of nice varied architecture that keeps each area feeling fresh even with the same texture theme repeating. And it actually feels a bit like a sewer to me, there's a lot of rooms that remind me of a room shape you might see in a 3D, early 2000s shooter.

The monsters are pretty much small fry (zombies/imps/pinkies) with a few Arch-Viles sprinkled in here and there, which helps things feel breezy despite the large (360+) monster count. It also means things can be a bit hit-or-miss in terms of threat, since there's no (non-secret, at least) armor, and sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a closet full of shotgun guys suddenly opening. Very linear too, but it ends just about at the right time. Those push-to-open bars midway through the map are pretty dumb, though. And the slime switching between damaging and not damaging was lame as well.

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SteveD said:

Map10 – Toxic Touch by Kim Andre Malde

If Vorpal or Lee are reading this, I have to ask if there were discussions on this topic back in the day?


I didn't have any contact with the rest of the AV team bar some emails between Andy and Fish. Neither Siege or Complex were designed for AV initially and were submitted by Anthony to the project. I think I worked from a texture pack (could be wrong here) but I don't recall submitting feedback for the other maps, a lot of which I had to play on HNTR because of the difficulty. Most of the maps were finished so if I found some gameplay I didn't like I would put it down to personal taste.

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I just want to quickly throw out there that I considered Toxic Touch to be the best map in Alien Vendetta, despite it being a sewer map.

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MAP12 - Entropy
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/100/100

If this is the opener for the second episode of megawad, this is a good opener. It's classic tech-base level with linear progression and lots of secrets. If you're playing with pistol start, make sure to find those hidden areas for rocket launchers, berserk powerup, and BFG. Thankfully, secrets are placed with reasonable hints, making you to explore the level in a positive way. The underground part has a non-linear layout with acceptable monster placements, although I was not happy with spectres wandering around. The last fight with a megasphere was predictable, but it was not bad. Like I've said, it's a good start for the second episode.

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map11 - 96% kills/ 75% secrets - fde here

now we come to the Nemesis Citadel. this, along with map01 and 'Misri Halek' are the maps that come to mind when i think of Alien Vendetta (i tend not to watch demos of maps i haven't played yet) so i have been looking forward to this.

the map starts with one of my favourite iwad midis (+1 point) but also with some extremely stark 'cliffs'. considering this wad was released a good few years after doom2 came out, i was expecting a slightly less abstract representation (-1 point). there's also another openGl only glitch when you pick up the green armour (and another in the caverns later, by the blue armour), but that's not the mappers fault so of course ill let that slide, but it doesn't help you warm to the map.

once you've made your way up to the citadel proper, the boxy cliffs don't stand out as much. unfortunately my winding route took me outside along the mancubi/revenant ledge quite a few times as i got lost/fell off so those cliffs were quite prominent. the design does however give a sense of scale - i definitely felt like i was high up above the sea. after clearing out the cyber you can open up a shortcut so you don't have to do that route over and over again.

the green/grey/brass citadel itself is quite striking (if a little hard to parse where staircases begin and end), and feels like a proper fortification, unlike map09's keep. a little bit too much size in the case of the cyberdemon hall which is curiously empty and had me expecting a mass teleport-ambush for most of the first play-through.

after you run past the cyberdemon there's a really irritating mancubi blockade, down a very steep staircase, with the cyber pegging you from the right-hand side while you try in vain to peek-a-boo down the steps - rubbish stuff frankly.

after that the little garden skirmish is a much better proposition with the cyber again making you wary of the right hand side, even if it turns out the cyber cant actually hit you (the rockets hit the window ledges).

mastermind is a joke as usual - i wonder if you can get the cyber and mastermind to in-fight?

after the YK you enter the citadel dungeons (a compact maze) and then the aforementioned earthy-caverns. i too had trouble seeing any detail amongst the texturing, although i must admit the warm brown against the deep blue of the water is a pleasing combination. it doesn't help that (at least in prboom) a lot of the tight corners and edges literally repel you so you spend a lot of the time struggling to move around as you look for the next point of progression.

the thin useable bars again make an appearance. frustratingly there are both useable and non-useable ones in this map - which seems like a miss-step, as do the numerous unmarked thicker bars requiring the keys so you have to touch them to work out what opens. this never helps my memory while playing a map, so i have to check the map once i've actually located the key.

overall a map similar to map10, winning me over with its atmosphere and interesting design and details, despite numerous general flaws. i found most of the secrets which always helps my opinion of a map ;)

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MAP11 - “Nemesis” by Martin Aalen Hunsager

Not sure how i got from sewers to washed up on an island somewhere, but anyway. This map brings back many memories of being hopelessly lost, thanks to its labyrinthine layout and habit of using metal bars as unmarked key-doors. I guess I might be a victim of modern mapping conventions, but I cant imagine a time when that would have ever been intuitive. I'm fine with the rest of it, finding your way through the mazes of marble steps and cramped caverns is ok, if a little claustrophobic at times. It does feel like it goes on a bit longer than it needs to, but thats no big deal. The difficulty is mostly in the navigation rather than the fighting, so the journey itself is what we are here for, and it takes you through quite a variety of settings which is cool. But yeah, easy map to get confused in for me.

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Map 11 Nemesis:

The first time I played this level It gave me a sort of sense of desolation due to the midi and the size of the map. The first part till the cyberdemon wasn't my favourite while I liked the second part (sewers/brick/cave areas).
Replaying I now enjoyed it a lot more, just the last cave area (which contain the blue key) is possible the weakest part for what concern the gameplay due to its cramped nature. Also there is a revenant hidden in a non-secret area not easy to find. Graphical and architectural point of view it is one of the most impressive map of the set for me (the cave is aesthetically very realistic), although it is not among my favorite levels.
Overall a big good level with a solid replayability value.

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Map12
Back in 1999 I was (ineptly) trying to organise a project called “Doom 2: Reincarnate” which was pretty much exactly the same as D2INO in concept. It never got beyond a few maps, including my map01 and Brad’s map02 and map03. These are mashed together here into a single level: an undertaking that was hopefully made at least slightly easier by the fact that Reincarnate was going to have the conceit that the end room of each level would be the first room of the next.

For those wondering, my work ends with the octagonal green brick room with the three grey “air conditioner” units in the walls. Or if you want to put it another way “when the level stops being built on a SW->NE line”. When creating this map I had the bright idea that I should build it at a 45 degree angle to the main grid, because I’d never seen anyone do that. There is, of course, a reason why I’d never seen anyone do that, and it took quite a lot of effort to get all the texturing alignment looking good here.

The last time I looked at this map was when I played AV, not long after it came out, so it’s interesting to review it now after a 14-15 year break. I’m pretty happy with it, actually. It’s admittedly very short, but the action is pretty good given the low tier monsters in play (Brad’s definitely amped up the gameplay in later sections of the map, but I’d say most of what’s in my section has been tweaked only a little - I doubt I put that UV Revenant in, for instance!). I’m happy with the way it looks and think the lighting is pretty nice. Clearly I was still enamored of criss-crossing lights after “Rats in the Walls” when I made this. Also, clearly I didn’t yet understand that lighting works on a 16-point scale, given the values I’ve used for it. But hey, it looks alright :)

Brad’s sections I think hold up well. I like the entirely optional red key in the “Underhalls” section, and the “Gantlet” certainly lives up to its name here. It naturally wasn’t so vicious when it was planned as a map03, but it’ll certainly get your heart started now. I like how it plays pretty “fair”, too. The traps are mostly quite obvious before you trigger them, but have enough teeth to still be a challenge. That’s how I like ‘em.

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12: Yay, new episode, this gave me a TNT vibe with the night sky and Doom 2 industrial setting. The level felt better than the ones from the previous episode. It's mostly corridors that would connect disjointed rooms, though there's some cool non-linearity after you get there. The encounters followed the trend of this wad with monsters in the way and cover/door fights, with some more intense moments here and there. The megasphere setpiece was the most memmorable, though. 7/10.

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map12

Gameplay in the first half is quite choppy due to the liberal use of doors, but I didn't mind it so much, because I had fun exploring it. It was smartly designed to maintain intrigue -- lots of goal-reward loops and risks with potential payoffs, an optional keyquest, secrets everywhere, etc. The layout is simple but it appears more complex than it is, partly because it's confusing.

The second half, with the very generous megasphere, didn't work for me. It was almost sleep-inducing in its tameness. I did like the last archvile at least. At least the warp-in can be skipped and itineraries can be pursued elsewhere, however, so it seems like a reasonably fun maxrun setup.

Capellan said:

For those wondering, my work ends with the octagonal green brick room with the three grey “air conditioner” units in the walls. Or if you want to put it another way “when the level stops being built on a SW->NE line”. When creating this map I had the bright idea that I should build it at a 45 degree angle to the main grid, because I’d never seen anyone do that. There is, of course, a reason why I’d never seen anyone do that, and it took quite a lot of effort to get all the texturing alignment looking good here.


One of my favorite things about Espi's maps is how some sections are oriented at 45 degree angles relative to others. It has a really mystical feel. We should vote for Back to Basics one of these months.

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Cynical said:

SteveD, complaining about hitscanner assholery? Karma sure is a bitch, ain't it ;-)


I was worried somebody might say this. ;)

Sure, I love hitscanners. The Hitscanner Game is fast-paced and you don't necessarily need hordes like you do in The Meat Game when spaces are large, or resort to stuffing people in closets with Barons to compensate for Meat's many weaknesses. But perhaps you'd agree that, however enthusiastic I might be about my hitscanner buddies, I tend to not place them in bunkers. That approach is a species of what I call The Hamburger Hill Syndrome -- "We gotta take that mountain, fellas. The Viet Cong are dug in and manning heavy machine guns. But we'll take that hill if we have to bleed a river of blood to do it!!!"

Two seconds later, that officer gets fragged. ;D

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MAP11 - “Nemesis” by Martin Aalen Hunsager

your boat reaches an island. its high cliffs have that cardboard panorama look i mentioned @ beast island, due to plain, straight lines for rocks instead of something with a more natural look, and stepping back into the ocean is made impossible by a blocking line. you find armor and shotguns in a cave and start ascending on narrow paths to a marble castle high above. it's your standard green marble demon castle, a pretty large building that requires some exploring and blasting small groups of defenders off the walls. there's plenty of shells, but also a bfg found right near the cyberdemon, who dies quickly in 2 shots; and the spider in 1 (you can do a gotcha with them, but there's enough cells to just tell them gtfo). actually, fighting the occasional revenant on the narrow mountain paths (the part where you get a soulsphere) and especially finding a way through the map was the real challenge. one can guess that a lot of effort went into those mountain paths, but they could have been textured more diverse and especially been a bit wider. they lead to the exit.



MAP12 - “Entropy” by Adam Windsor, Brad Spencer

a tribute to TNT, starting with a view of map01's entrance from there, a doom2 base interior and "the imp's song" as music. has some oldschool about it, perhaps emulates tnt well. the chaingunner bunker at the yellow key remind of the "guardhouses" in tnt'S map03, with the teleport connecting them. a secret berserk saves a lot of ammo, as there's plenty of pinkies and specters. iirc the red key is not needed to progress, just the blue one. but you get a plasma gun here, and a radsuit which is not needed for grabbing the red key in its pool normally... and the plasma gun, well, in case you need it for the last big warp-in, as those stumble over their own feet. but it makes blasting through the last group of mancs quicker. so, until now, adventure maps, HR tributes and now TNT.

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Pirx said:

MAP12 - “Entropy” by Adam Windsor, Brad Spencer
a tribute to TNT



Any similarity to TNT in the opening section is purely coincidental. I've never played Final Doom. Brad may have deliberately done some of it in his sections though.

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Capellan said:

Any similarity to TNT in the opening section is purely coincidental. I've never played Final Doom. Brad may have deliberately done some of it in his sections though.


Nope there's no TNT tribute going on there, I actually quite dislike TNT. Now that I think about it I think that's an unfiltered, original map (my portion of it at least) in that it wasn't a tribute to / inspired by / nor otherwise influenced by anything, at least consciously. That's actually quite unusual for me since I tend to be hella tribute-y.

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MAP10: Toxic Touch
36:52 | 100% Kills | 100% Items | 50% Secrets

I like this one, even though it's basically Chaingunners And Shotgunners: The Map. It looks gorgeous, and gameplay is fine as long as you're into blast-lots-of-lower-tier-baddies-right-in-front-of-you (which I am.) It's a looong, mostly linear level, and so I didn't go back hunting for the one secret I missed. (Apparently it's in the starting room you can't get back to, anyway.) Not a fan of the will-it-or-won't-it? inconsistently-damaging nukage. And the mastermind at the end is laughable.

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MAP10 Toxic touch
In the second part of the map, i really like this one, the map details are very good, the gameplay nothing extraordinary but its fun and the midi have some effect that it never ends.
But the bad thing of this map is the lineal map that consume you the most part of the time, it could be better.
The hard thing of this map is the lack of armor, i like this againts ever monster except the chaingunners or shutguns, jesus they hurt you a lot.
100% kills 50% secrets
above 10minutes of play.
3,5/5 stars

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lol. it's nice to have mappers who were involved in a project give feedback. that dislike for tnt came surprising, as, in my unsuspecting mind, the map looks quite tnt-like.

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MAP11: Nemesis
1:00:35 | 99% Kills | 100% Items | 100% Secrets

Epic map. Another one of those "Where was that from?" level for me, again. Aside from that opening shot, it looks very cool, and plays pretty good, too, with some decent combat (though, again, not terribly challenging—at least from a continuous standpoint.) Progression was a bit obtuse, though, with the keys only serving as lures to (I can only assume) get you to cross some invisible tripwire that opens the exit area; the keys themselves are only good for getting out of the areas you picked them up in. Nothing at all in the map signposts how the exit opens up, or even where it is. Having to hump a waterfall to gain access to the blue key area is like the textbook definition of non-intuitive. The caverns were very cramped and hard to move around; just moving through the passageway was a challenge in a couple of spots. There was an unnecessarily-large number of soulspheres plus a megasphere, and finally my sole missed kill was a mastermind that failed to teleport in from its closet in the northwest corner. (I'm not even sure where it was supposed to end up.) Despite all these faults, I just love this map. So much fun, such a grand scale (though nothing compared to what awaits us still) and just all around a fun, highly-memorable level.


MAP12: Entropy
26:43 | 100% Kills | 87% Items | 90% Secrets

The last 10 minutes of that was combing back through the entire level looking for secrets, by the way. (I found one, still overlooked another.) I hardly remembered this map, barring a couple of areas that seemed vaguely familiar. Chief among those was the giant ambush in the second-half hub area. Other than that, this was a fairly laid-back run-and-gun kind of level, full of constant combat but very little actual pressure barring one or two ambushes. Good stuff, and fun, but (as I can attest) largely forgettable.

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Map 12: Entropy

I also got some TNT vibes for whatever reason. A rather textbook techbase map with computer rooms and sewage areas. Oh, and 11 secrets which I actually managed to find. Took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up with no ammo against a horde of Pinkies, Spectres and Cacodemons. Luckily taking a different hallway solves that problem. Ended up reaching the exit with about 30 enemies and 1 secret still remaining and it was stuff to do with the red key that I missed after going through the blue door first. Can't say I was a fan of the Barons with how much ammo they ate up and the low number of rockets to be found. Pretty good map, but as mentioned above, doesn't really stand out.

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Hey guys, I'm back again to play more Alien Vendetta. Gonna tackle the next two maps.

Map07: Showdown (Anders Johnsen)
100% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 03:49

It may nothing more than a variation on Dead Simple/Caughtyard, but it's nicely done and well-designed. The starting area with the mancubi reminds me a little bit of a colosseum, with the "seating levels" surrounding the arena. Next, you have the exterior with the arachnotrons, with a moat surrounding the "colosseum." You get a nice assortment of enemies, so this map basically takes more from Caughtyard than Dead Simple, what with the Plutonia textures and all. It's all fun in my opinion.

Map08: Beast Island (Jan Endre Jansen/Anders Johnsen)
100% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 14:12

This map certainly has that Eternal Doom vibe to it. It's medieval-themed, and it's pretty huge. The first half of the map takes you through mountainous/cavernous areas that is full of baddies. A lot of action goes there as there's a lot of ambushes that can catch you off guard, particularly the enemies that teleport in or pop out of walls that open in the rapids and also the arch-vile that teleports when you grab the soul sphere in the well at the starting area (accessed via a hidden teleporter behind a secret wall. Then you have to watch out for sniper gunners, imps and revenants that are situated on the cliffs in the section where you must hit the switch to lower the barriers to the portal. After one more trek through the next water passage after stepping in the portal, you get the latter half which is a big fortress. You need to go around the back and drop down in the middle to find a switch that will lower the barriers blocking the entrance to the fortress. Use the imps patrolling the ramparts to distract the cyberdemon so you can dispose of him without the risk of eating rockets. You then have to go inside the fortress through the marble baron of hell face door and make your way around to find a switch that will open the middle door to the exit. Solid, fun map, pretty challenging and lengthy too. The music really helps to enhance the medieval theme of this map.

Will the tackle the next few another day. Take care everyone and have fun.

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MAP12 Entropy

So this is the three-in-one you two were talking about eh? Looks like the standard tech-base theme (we all love this theme by now, admit it) with Adam's easily accessible secrets showing in the first area (apparently this is the Entryway, I guess it fits as an actual entryway). It goes away quickly to the next area, called the Underhalls, and, well, you need the blue key to get out of this one. It's still an alright part, and I think the red key is optional for that one area with the plasma gun too.

The last part is called the Gantlet and accordingly feels like one. The megasphere is an obvious trap, but can easily be run from, in which I do every single time. It's a hard one to fight out if you stay there, but running to the left to the yellow key room keeps things in accord. The yellow key itself is another trap, but this time, this one is mitigated if you find the secrets, which get rid of the chaingunner walls. Now I wish that was in MAP04's red key trap too. Two more traps precede the exit, a tight one with imps and biters, which is easily averted by heading into the imp cubbies, and a delayed-reaction teleport one involving quite a few enemies in the room before the exit. Very interesting stuff, even for a map theme that's always around. Now it's time for AV to get real serious (in my opinion at least, some have it earlier).

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Map12: I didn't recall anything of this map, it was like playing it for the first time. It looks quite nice I guess and it was fun but I think it really picks up after you take the teleport. It's a rather good map overall and it's fine to open the 2nd episode but I feel it's also very generic and forgettable, it lacks of something really compelling.

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MAP13 - Suicidal Tendencies
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/100/100

This level greets you with two squadrons of shotgun guys, damn. Judging from the monster counter with nearly 600 monsters, this level must be a slaughtermap. And yes, you'll encounter tons of zombiemen and chaingunners, imps, and other mid-tier monsters. This level even throws a Cyberdemon earlier than I expected. As a pistol starter, grabbing a SSG from where I want to call "secret area" at the beginning was a wise move, since it can mow down zombiemen with indubitable satisfaction. Speaking of secret, try to find a secret room with a blue key which will lead you to a precious supply storage with a megasphere. The blue key will also lead you to a room with a BFG, which is really useful after you grab the yellow keycard later. The combat is something that you might expect from slaughtermaps; sometimes rocket & shell spamming scene, sometimes monster infighting simulator. I wasn't against this kind of gameplay, except there is one thing that I didn't like for a slaughtermap; The lack of backpack. Don't get me wrong, this level does have a backpack. But I managed to grab a backpack after I killed every single monsters in the level. The backpack is hiding somewhere with no hints at all, making it even harder to find than actual secret areas. I would throw a backpack somewhere in the container depot or a small room with a plasma rifle and a blue armor. Not a bad level, even though I'm not a fan of slaughtermaps, but it could be better.

Pirx said:

cool. that looks much like the original, with its lens flares. doomsday i guess? also brighter than my gzdoom.


The original screenshot was taken with ZDoom. I loaded custom texture placements while I was taking it, then used Photoshop to polish the result.

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MAP11: Nemesis
99% kills, 3/4 secrets

Like Salt-Man Z, I had the "oh hey it's that map!" reaction upon reaching this. It's long been one of my favorites, though I'll say it has aged less than gracefully in some respects, and there's quite a few annoying parts. The color key bars having no visual indication (and being mixed with other, switch-activated bars) is pretty poor design, and the caverns have a lot of nibbly bits to get stuck on. Lots of invisible walls at the start, too. Navigating the map can also be a bit puzzling in some aspects, though I think that's half the fun ... there's also a fair amount of ammo shortage, but that helps push the player to explore (or push into dangerous situations). Oh, and that dang practically-a-secret waterfall, thankfully I remembered that. I suppose it's not actually required, but I like it so I can clear out the blue key section before the yellow key stuff, which lets me break up those cave sections. Still, despite all that, there's something great about this highly interconnected marble fortress.

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MAP12 - “Entropy” by Adam Windsor, Brad Spencer

Hmm, very open-door-shoot-monsters this map. Its basically rooms and corridors, with everything coming at you at eye level. Occasionally stuff teleports in or pops out of a closet, but mostly its shooting whatever is standing in your way. There is a little bit of exploration when it comes to getting the keys, but it feels a bit like basic stuff that has been given some visual polish. Nothing offensive, just nothing that memorable.

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