Which was the very first slaughter map?

Or, the first few in the evolution of what is now by many an accepted and appreciated mode of play?

Hey, for doom 2 the first released slaughter map should be Showdown map 23 from Memento Mori

DMINATOR.WAD if PWADs count. Or HORDES.WAD.

^ I I was sure you were going to mention that Extra Hard or whatever it's called.

Probably a George Fiffy WAD like https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom/0-9/1fifwar or something similar.

By a loose measure, Doom 1's E2M9 and E3M9. The packs of high-tier monsters are right there.

I always thought Go 2 It was considered to be the first.

bzzrak said:

^ I I was sure you were going to mention that Extra Hard or whatever it's called.

Only that that one is simply unplayable, plus, strictly speaking, it doesn't even add monsters in a meaningful way: it only replaces things with others, resulting in all that stuck clusterfuckery.

At least DMINATOR.WAD, despite being an E1 modification, tried to be original with its reinterpretation of the existing areas, and didn't go light on the hordes either. The Pinky outdoors in E1M2 is legendary. HORDES.WAD was simply 50 repetitive rooms with hordes of monsters, to be fought one after the other.

Salahmander2 said:

I always thought Go 2 It was considered to be the first.

Same. Particularly the old-ass version called Punisher. Even 'Tricks and Traps' sorta felt like one back in the day what with almost each room containing a sizable horde.

The H2H competition wad deserves a mention in this. It's earlier than some of the wads being mentioned here, and has distinct slaughter elements (winning demos here).

Of course, there are earlier maps with some slaughter features, including very early ones that were just id maps packed with extra monsters. But the H2H maps were built from scratch and designed for challenging and violent gameplay by people who knew what they were doing.

Edit: this thread is worth a look.

Tricks and Traps is certainly there and even has the hallmark Cyber vs Nobles infighting encounter that's still prominently featured in modern "hard wads". Every room is also rather densely packed with hordes of the same enemy so I'd vouch for it being a very early example of the style.

E3M9 has some of that going on with the weird shotgunner spamming.

Maybe it's because I played Doom 2 and TNT before Doom, But Doom never did seem too slaughter-y for me.

As for the Doom 2 IWAD, Spirit World had that part where they gave you a fully loaded BFG and threw 2 Spider Demons accompanied by a bunch of Archnotrons for you to fight.
Tricks and Traps was also quite slaughtery

Go 2 It seems like the only "Slaughter Map" among the 4 IWADs.

Please, MAP28 was the original slaughtermap.

Map 16: Suburbs from Doom II feels like a slaughter map.

*smacks forehead* stop pretending there are slaughter maps in the IWADs

yakfak said:

*smacks forehead* stop pretending there are slaughter maps in the IWADs

I mean, there are sort of...

Just look at the ones mentioned above. Crazy shit right there.

Is MAP01 a slaughter map?

HorrorMovieGuy said:

Is MAP01 a slaughter map?

That was the hardest map my friend. All those imps and zombiemen. Ohohoho!

yakfak said:

*smacks forehead* stop pretending there are slaughter maps in the IWADs

*hits blunt*

The slaughtermaps are out there man... you just gotta open your mind.

*hits gatorade*

They're all slaughter maps!

yakfak said:

*smacks forehead* stop pretending there are slaughter maps in the IWADs

Go 2 It isn't a small slaughtermap? I think it is. Jesus, this term really doesn't have any clear definition if Go 2 It ain't one.

Wolfenstein 3D E4M10.

Is there even a common definition of what constitutes a "slaughter map"? More than X monsters? More than X monsters per area unit? Focus on direct, uncovered, non-strategical combat? Average kills per minute?

IMO, if on a map you're often given the opportunity to mindlessly spam a BFG or RL at a wide front of uncovered enemies, and ammo is obviously not an issue, then you're probably playing a slaughter map. If you're pitted against hordes that will make a joke of themselves by infighting...that's also another kind of slaughter map.

But there are maps with lots of enemies where you can't spam or abuse infighting, and force you to a long grind or completely different play style instead.

I think if the enemies form a big indistinct horde/ball/mass and you have to tackle them all head on by circlestrafing like crazy and throwing stuff at them for quite a while, then it's a slaughtermap.

Just the map spamming enemies is not enough. Tricks and traps does not have big enough engagements to be considered a slaughter I think. You can clear those groups of monsters with a little rocket barrage. And the cyber with the nobles room is just a novelty for the invulnerability sphere to be used.

i always thought that the three good tenets of slaughtermaps were:

1) BFG & RL are primary weapons, SSG is clean-up. in non-slaughter the SSG is almost always the primary.
2) horde movement must be manipulated at all times to avoid being trapped. this discounts normal maps where there may be a few points where a group of enemies may trap you in a corner but only if you ignore them completely/play badly.
3) horde manipulation is also reliant on enemy death - i.e. clearing space with the RL and BFG, not just running past them/promoting infighting.

but we could argue this forever :D

Punisher, perhaps?

Maes said:

Is there even a common definition of what constitutes a "slaughter map"?

There isn't. Everyone seems to interpret the term in his own way. For me, a map is a slaughter map if it's easier for the player to focus on the behavior of groups of monsters as wholes, than to focus on the behavior of individual monsters. In other words, when the player thinks of the monster's behavior in order to fight them efficiently, groups of monsters in normal maps are better to be considered as groups of individual enemy entities, whereas groups of monsters in slaughter maps are better to be considered as the enemy entities of their own. In yet other words, normal maps challenge you to pay attention to each single monster, whereas slaughter maps challenge you to pay attention to prevailing trends in the behavior of whole crowds of monsters.

great point

You guys are all responding to the thread title and not the OP. There's a huge difference between the day the telephone was invented and when everyone had one installed in their house.

Many of the wads listed had very little to do with the development of the genre and the people who gladly stand behind it.

I can't speak for everyone but for me, Scythe 2 did the best job of making the type of fast paced aggressive gameplay associated with slaughtermaps more palatable for a normal player. I recall hearing many casual Doomers play things like Plutonia and Hell Revealed 2, and within a few maps realize this kinda style is not their thing. I rarely hear Scythe 2 criticized the same way. I think it bridged the gap between hardcore players and more casual players better than any other wad before it.