Is SNES doom bad?

LogicDeLuxe said:

If you call the 2600 hoax a "Doom version", you certainly should mention the C64 version as well, which in contrary to the Atari version actually exists

Whee Speccy (caption courtesy of the site I got the screenshot from)

Too bad the Atari version of the Build engine used in Numen never became the game it was meant to be.

LogicDeLuxe said:

If you call the 2600 hoax a "Doom version", you certainly should mention the C64 version as well, which in contrary to the Atari version actually exists:

Eventhough it looks more like a rather low resolution Wolfenstein engine, it's still quite impressive seeing this on a plain C64. (For you younger guys: The C64 has merely 64kB RAM, 1 MHz CPU and 16 hardcoded colors)

and my idiotbox sister sold our C64 in a garage sale for $25. why was I not informed of a Doom for it?

catdeath said:

and my idiotbox sister sold our C64 in a garage sale for $25. why was I not informed of a Doom for it?

Might be because it is not listed on the source ports list.
If there is a place for Foom! and Sidescroller Doom, there certainly should be a place for Mood (this C64 game) as well. I suggested this once, but it wasn't added.

That "Speccy Doom" looks like a hoax...I have a freeware "Doom for Spectrum" port, and it looks nothing like it. (download and screenie coming as soon as I locate it)

Correction: I had never seen this one, however it seems it's not intended to run on standard ZX Spectrum hardware, but rather on some extended (virtual?) hardware called "Scorpion/Pentagon". The one I have is monochrome, looks more like a generic 3D maze and can run -apparently- on a standard 48K Speccy, although there's not much to do other than wandering around.

I had a "maze game" for my old BBC Micro which, if i remember rightly, had all of 32k of RAM. However the player moved in "blocks" rather than actually moving, but it did have enemies (three "robots" who wandered pretty much at random until they found and shot you) and even a "filling-in" automap, plus a gun with limited ammo which even left decals on the walls. I'm sure if the disk wasnt corrupted and i knew anything about programming the robots could be recoloured brown and thier projectiles yellow, and it could be released as "BBC Doom"

Coopersville said:

No spectre.

It's a port of Doom, not Ultimate Doom.

I didn't have a PC until 2000, and, like anyone who didn't have any other choice would have, I enjoyed the shit out of SNES Doom. Most of what makes Doom so impressive is intact.

The only thing that stops me from playing it from time to time to this day is one certain aspect they totally bungled--lack of circle strafing. For some reason I could never figure out you can't strafe and turn at the same time. It didn't bother me at the time, and in effect it's the same limitation you'd have with the original Doom's default keyboard-only config, but once you know what you're missing it's really annoying.

Richo Rosai said:

It's a port of Doom, not Ultimate Doom.

Doom always has had the spectre.

Here, to prove that the ZX Spectrum version is not a hoax, nor a generic mazey game that "could" be labelled "Doom": it is, instead, what appears as a honest bottom-up approach to make something that LOOKS like Doom...with a lot of imagination. There's more than one attempt, too.

The one I've always known (and was able to run on a 486 via speccy emulation):

http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0012817

and looks (is?) more of a tech demo.

Note, it's also playable on-line through a very convenient Java Speccy emulator, so as long as you have the Java Runtime Environment, you could try it. Controls are QAIO (not QAOP) for movement, space for fire, and cursor keys to change weapons/toggle automap. Not much to do other than wandering around, though.

Plus there is another attempt, which seems much less complete and Doom-esque:

http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0012818

However none of them looks quite like the one originally shown in this thread.

Sadly, I have played SNES Doom. And I'd hate to go against the majority here, but I have to say it sucks.

Out of all the versions of Doom I've played (which amounts to 32X, SNES, GBA and Doom 64), SNES Doom is pretty low on that totem pole. I think it and 32X (with its no-BFG-episode-3-missing-skewed-3-button-control-scheme) would be fighting for the top spot in terms of craptitude.

Seriously, people: PC or bust. If you absolutely need a perfect PC-to-console Doom, go with the one in the Xbox Doom 3, or the XBLA version. Or just work with Doom 64, which is pretty good. Heard PSX Doom's pretty good as well.

TonicBH said:

Seriously, people: PC or bust. If you absolutely need a perfect PC-to-console Doom, go with the one in the Xbox Doom 3, or the XBLA version.

You do get a lot of Doom for your buck if you buy Xbox Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil. Besides the Doom 3 game the package includes ports of Ultimate Doom, Doom II: Hell on Earth, and Doom II Master Levels, which features 18 of the 21 PC "Master Levels" maps.

Xbox 360/XBLA "Doom" (actually Ultimate Doom) is much like the Xbox Ultimate Doom game, but with fewer bugs and limitations, and running at a higher resolution (most noticeable with textures and sprites at longer ranges).
Given the choice between just those two Ultimate Doom games, I'd strongly recommend the 360 version.

Or just work with Doom 64, which is pretty good. Heard PSX Doom's pretty good as well.

For those who don't already know, Doom 64 is not a straight port of a PC game, and it has a very different overall look-and-feel compared to the vanilla PC originals. If you can get past that (it took me awhile), it can be a lot of fun.
All new maps, new artwork, and some tricks and features not found in other console ports.

In its era PlayStation Doom was, IMHO, the best console port of the Doom/Doom II originals, handily smoking its predecessors and a few of the later console ports. It gave you a boatload of maps (59), monsters that were missing from earlier console ports, solid system-link ability, some interesting custom maps, and all-new atmospheric music (which some folks love, others hate).

SNES Doom is...okay, especially considering the era and the hardware. I think the best features are the reworked music, and the fact that its 22 maps are much closer to their PC counterparts, compared to the hacked-up and watered-down Jaguar/Sega32X maps which were copy-pasted into several other Doom console ports.

hardcore_gamer, for more general background info on all of those, I'd suggest this and this.

Cheers

Wow at Spectrum version.

SNES isnt a perfect port. It's buggy, enemies always face you (like Wolf-3D for MAC and Jaguar), controls are a bit akward, and some other stuff. I think it's possible to swtich weapons when the game is paused, which can be pretty helpful, correct me if I'm wrong on this.

But as stated before, if you don't have a PC, or didn't have one at the time, this would of gotten you through. Doom 64 did for me when I didnt have Doom on my PC, even though it's a lot better.

deathbringer said:
PS-Anybody think SNES E1M1 sounded a little like PC E1M9? I have E1M9 mp3 version on my ipod but if anyone knows where to get SNES E1M1 i'd like to make a comparison...[/B]

Nah, the SNES version's E1M1 sounds a lot like E1M1 back in the old days .. the quality just isn't anywhere near as good as it was on the PC.

Here's where you can obtain it:
http://www.doom2.net/~doomdepot/music.html#snes

(Just FYI: The "PC" music on Doom Depot is awesome quality but doesn't sound like the music did back in the Windows 3.1/Soundblaster days. If you've played it in its original state back then, you'll know what I'm talking about. Of course, the fact that they're MP2 files is kind of a dead giveaway.)

The thing that freaked me out in SNES DOOM was how easy it was to kill a Baron of Hell... Use the Chaingun, and just shot, they'll block like if they were Imps or Demons.

Never had the chance to go very far (I haven't seen the Cyber Demon or the Spider Mastermind) because I stoped playing it to get back on the PC version.

Btw hi, I'm a new member. :P

Although I haven't played every console port of Doom, I feel the SNES version was terrible at best, possiby the worst of the bunch. Nostaglia/retro freaks seem to like it, but I can't deal with the 4 frames per second gameplay, low-res display, one-sided enemies and textureless floors/ceilings. It's amazing that it even ran on the SNES, but it was too dumbed down to enjoy for me. The PSX and N64 versions, to me, are where it's at.

SNES DOOM was the first DOOM I ever played, and I didn't like it.
Then I got the Shareware PC DOOM and I liked it.

Later on, I borrowed SNES DOOM to a friend, and I felt pain. :P

PSX DOOM isn't bad mainly because of the new maps (later used in GBA DOOM, like E3M1), but the 30 FPS killed me.
I never played the N64 version (except the PC-ported version on Doomsday).
And GBA DOOM kicks ass, the frame rate is pretty good (except the slowodnws when there are too much monsters in a map). I have ordered GBA DOOM 2, still waiting for it.

I had GBA Doom at one point, but lost the cartridge. It was like the third GBA game I lost that week, I was getting pissed.
It was a good port for what they had to work with.

I hated how they changed the blood to green though.

GBA Doom I was balls. GBA Doom II was better but still suffered from generally poor controls (Though better than GBA Doom I) and god-awful frame rates

GBA doom 1 and 2 are fine. 2 is better of course but neither are the worst doom port, or even the second worst. The worst doom port just so happens to be the topic of this thread. SNES doom is almost entirely lacking in redeeming qualities. PSX Doom ftw, etc.

And I always laugh when people mention using zdoom as a console port if no official one is supplied. The logic behind taking one of the least portable ports out there and making it work on something that is as different to pc/windows as night is to day is hilarious.

But the 32x and 3do ports are the worst official ports in general. SNES doom is at least brave enough to squish it all into 2 megabytes (16megabits) of ROM data.

leileilol said:

But the 32x and 3do ports are the worst official ports in general. SNES doom is at least brave enough to squish it all into 2 megabytes (16megabits) of ROM data.

I've played the 32X port as well as the SNES port. Graphics and control wise, the 32X port is not that bad, in fact it's on the par with an average 486 regarding frame rates/screen size. The controls are also OK, as OK as a joypad can be (I tried playing PC Doom with a Gravis Gamepad...well it can be done but isn't better than keyboard).

The one thing that really sucks balls about the 32X version is the music...it's even WORSE than OPL2 playing MIDI through windows drivers...fucking horrible.

The Angry Video Game Nerd will be pleased to digress on the rest of the details (ignore the age check thing, click on the download links just below it, and save the video directly in your format of choice).

What really pisses me is WHY they chose to use so little ROM space (even the 32X version is something like 3MB: there are far crappier and older games which use 4 MB or 6, 8 MB liberally. The full set of Doom sprites from Doom II is about 2.6 MB. Where was the difficulty in using a 6MB cart? Consider that it was 1994 already...Jesus Christ.

Maes said:

Where was the difficulty in using a 6MB cart? Consider that it was 1994 already...Jesus Christ.

Budget obviously. Bigger cart storage were a lot more expensive back then, they just don't dump a truck of 4mb carts for free and say "you can make your games on this" no.

You also had to be successful in profits to use the big carts. Sculptured Software mostly whacked out average titles, hardly any of their games exceeded 16megabits. After this game was finished they just started to work on Turok for the N64.

That's why I mentioned 1994: it was quite late in the lifetime of the Genesis, and producing 32X carts was really not all that different than Genesis carts. I mean, it's not even 4 MB but 3...geez. Well, there have been other console games limited to tiny ROM spaces by budget, presumably...

I think there where some MD carts that approached the heady heights of 24MB, though i can't remember what they where, RPG's probably, or the bigger fighters. Actually what was Zero Tolerance on? that had a shitload of enemies and levels, though only about 20 textures

EDIT: ROLF. Alright i take back the "uhhhh" thing...

You guys need to pay attention to the difference between Megabytes (MB) and Megabits (Mb) -- they are nowhere near the same thing. SNES cartridge sizes were given in Megabits to make them sound larger. The largest SNES carts available were 48 Megabit -- which is about 5 Megabytes.

Games like Star Ocean had to include specialized decompression hardware in the game cartridge in order to support their vast graphic resources.

SNES DOOM isn't actually a port at all. According to ASCII-text comments which can be found in the game's ROM using a Hex-editor, it's an entirely new game engine. The game uses the Super FX chip, so it's very likely based on texture-mapped polygons rather than columns.

However you feel about it, it IS a technical feat. It proves beyond any doubt that a PC running with its 33 MHz 16-bit processor and 640 KB of RAM could have done a lot more than Wolfenstein 3D :P

Wait, I thought 48 Megabits were 6 Megabytes...

8 bits in a byte

Quasar said:

However you feel about it, it IS a technical feat. It proves beyond any doubt that a PC running with its 33 MHz 16-bit processor and 640 KB of RAM could have done a lot more than Wolfenstein 3D :P

Well...by the time x86 processors were in the 20-33 MHz range, they were also 32-bit. AFAIK the fastest 286 used in a consumer PC never exceeded 16 (or 20) MHz, while everything from 386 to the very latest Core Duos are essentially 32-bit, making the i386 instruction set the longest-lived Intel architecture so far (1986-2006, the very least), excluding SSE/MMX/etc. extensions and the recently introduced IA64 extensions.

To make a comparison, the Sega 32X used two 20-MIPS CPUs and had no hardware acceleration for 3D graphics (a 486 could already achieve nearly 1 MIPS per MHz, so a 40 MHz 486 would be essentially on the par with a 32X, barring of course the twin-CPU parallelism and architectural differences).

Maes said:

The one I've always known (and was able to run on a 486 via speccy emulation):

http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0012817

and looks (is?) more of a tech demo.

Umm, the doom1_5b.trd file available there is the game that the screenshot I've posted is from, so I have no idea why you thought it was a hoax.

There's nothing virtual about ZX clones like Pentagon or Scorpion. Of course the game needs extended resources, just like the Build engine demo for the Atari that I've mentioned.

Belial said:

Umm, the doom1_5b.trd file available there is the game that the screenshot I've posted is from, so I have no idea why you thought it was a hoax./B]

Only because I remembered the Spectrum "Doom" demo from 1996, which looked nothing like the screenshot posted. But it turned out there were multiple attempts :-) Anyway, that shouldn't surprise us: there were even 3D polygon racers on 8 bit machines, why not 3D maze games? :-p