It becomes really easy with just a little practice, i think Oku's demo has a strat in it. Online it's easier to back off and not release pains at all until imps are dead though.
I think the first battle is too cruel, only because when you get midway up the stairs and those PE's are released it becomes ludicrously difficult to dodge and you can't progress forward owing to the impending AV's in the cage
There are at least two very safe starts for it, then it's just a matter of not screwing up your movement.
I absolutely suck really badly at the RK with the Cybs and cave of Imps with Cavo Invasion, I couldn't really work out a safe tactic?
Kill some, rush through, wake cybs (and maybe pinkies), rush back. There's one bugged revenant on one of the hills btw who falls out of bounds (but is still killable).
Problems start to rise in the Grey Canyon with Slime and the huge corridor of 2000 Imps and Revenants, theirs nowhere near enough ammo to take everything out
Isn't it the same throughout the whole map? :D
At this point their is nowhere near enough health to suffice let alone keep you alive with just Medkits, it assumes you know exactly what your doing without affording to make any mistakes.
I assume you're speaking about the start of part02 here. I agree that additional health in that area would be beneficial. There are two strats that work that i know of - the silent pacifist take-no-damage-but-spend-20minutes strat, which isn't difficult offline... or the yolo strat that requires a bit of luck with killing viles above the button. Then you'll run in ammo problems though. Having no room for mistake sucks at this point though, this is the trap where the first death almost always happened in our online testings with Watakid.
I'm talking about the inside area with the huge HK slugfest, AV's above and Revenants from behind, the AV's really pin you down and while I saw the strategy and got it going, I didn't like the fact theirs no Mega or Soulsphere in that area apart from after you've killed everything.
Some ammo would be nice, but i feel this area is fine. Also viles are very easy to dodge there, you dont need to run too close, the linedef is pretty far from the entrance. Trigger them and run back, then behind the central revcage. They'll have hard time reaching you and are easily dispatched from that spot.
Now the brown outside area with lava, Revs in the cage, Mancubie far away and HK's on the platform really needs more ammo, also how can you expect to dodge the AV's rising up from the staircase? You can't run back in time, and going forward is suicidal.
I prefer to memorize the pattern of crushers and just run through, works everytime and you save mega doing so:p. Cheese out teh trapz!
My favourite trap for it's sheer creativity is the crushers with the Barons, it's quite intense at first but then you steadily make your way back, hoping some don't slip through.
This big trap in part3 is very luckbased, or we just havent managed to find a proper strat. Either way, i'd like it to be toned down a little in luckdependance (and by "little" i mean "a lot"), and to include crushers for cybs. Or just make crushers timed, i dunno. It's such a chore killing them.
it's really frustrating to kill the Cybs in the cage while avoiding all the incoming fire from across both sides of the room. Can we have a crusher switch please?
Completely agree on this point, the trap is so ridiculously easy and tedious (and it lags out online even if you remove all other parts of the map :p) that it has no point.
The most boring and dull fight was the outside red canyon with the 2000 demons
Now on my own suggestions.
I think the first part (up until the door behind 20 cybs in slime) is all fine, except for maybe the interior of the fortress, which could have a drop or two of additional meds.
Second part is brutal, as already have been pointed out, the very first trap lacks hp, i'd prefer to have a bit more at least in the full map (i assume you'll cut them in parts eventually like holyhell, and if you do, there's no need to nerf traps imo).
The next killer trap is the revenant zigzagy hall, which is utterly impossible in my eyes. So impossible that i even recorded a joke tas demo of it a while ago. Tested so many approaches and none of them worked. Plz tell stratz or fix we beg u kthx.
The penultimate trap of part02 is another example of an overkill which even Anc considers an over-the-top thing. Cacovasion with hkvasion and 30+ viles with a measly help of 2 cybers (or was it 1? i forgot already), and lack of health. I'd go as far as to include armor and more hp into each hole with viles, and to add an additional cyber, while also giving player more time before the cacovasion starts. At least some nerfing is required, otherwise all max attempts that actually would manage to reach this part, would end horribly.
Part03 has some of the most awesome traps in the map. First few are ez and interesting (with one exception that i and Krypto commented on already), but then comes trap with a mount in the middle and tons of revs and viles on top of it. It usually lasts for a prolonged period of time due to massive cacovasion and hkvasion. If the player fails to kill viles quickly, they kill him instead. Killing them is a problem usually due to autoaim and cacos flying/taking shots/blocking movement and being generally irritating. Even if you don't hit them, they will eventually start to randomly hit you while switching targets, because things die all the time there. Which ends up badly after a minute or two. Because you're also getting hit randomly by lava too. I still feel that this trap is quite well balanced, but having more options in your movement would help. I'd suggest adding 2-3 more mounts in the area which could be used for hiding from viles and projectiles, and attracting cacos. Online we ended up doing my stupid cheaty strat all the time instead of fighting properly. 2nd player just stands above without jumping into the trap and kills off everything from there afterwards.
All the other traps seem to be fair (lol), albeit ruthless. I'd really like to see this map worked on again :p
EDIT: why the fuck did it keep screwing with my first youtube link and replacing characters in it with garbage. Replaced with a shortened one.
Last edited by jongo on Jun 25 2013 at 12:00