Doom in true colour [ testers for exe welcome/src snapshot/links updated ]

arkore said:

I don't like it.


Ok, you're entitled to your post but expect a backlash.

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This is software rendering, actually.

More to the point, no one is changing vanilla or forcing you to play anything else.

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arkore said:

I don't like it. I like the "before" shots better.

I also don't like opengl. I prefer software(pixel) rendering. In a way, software(pixel) rendering is sharper and will always give me the true feeling of the original classic doom that I played when I was young.

I don't know why you guys keep changing stuff like this. You're taking away the vanilla feel of doom...


Well, there's always vanilla doom.

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arkore said:

I don't like it. I like the "before" shots better.

I also don't like opengl. I prefer software(pixel) rendering. In a way, software(pixel) rendering is sharper and will always give me the true feeling of the original classic doom that I played when I was young.

I don't know why you guys keep changing stuff like this. You're taking away the vanilla feel of doom...

This post has single-handedly killed my enthusiasm for this project.

Sorry _bruce_.

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@DuckReconMajor: He didn't even make a single point that's remotely valid here.

@arkore:

. This is a 32-bit software renderer, not another 32-bit OpenGL renderer. Incidentally the whole point of the project.

. Most if not all of the GL-powered Doom source ports let you disable texture filtering, thus restoring your nescient perception of sharpness.

. Chocolate Doom serves as the base for the port, so rest assured you won't find anything this pretty retaining this much of the classic Doom essence.

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Hey, sorry. I'll post a followup here:

I actually think it's cool that you fixed the coloring on those Demons in the backgrounds, in the "after" shots. But, when I really look at it, I think it's actually better when the color is faded for far objects, like in the "before" shots. It reminds me of vanilla, and it also adds more depth I think; giving better illustration of distance of those objects--in addition to the scaling of distant objects.

Sorry for the confusion about the opengl. I was only referring to opengl as an additional off-topic example of "changing stuff". Opengl was cool at first when I first saw it, but then I started to not like the blurriness of it; and I missed the pixels and the sharpness feel I get from pixels. I think opengl would be successful if the textures are accurately increased in resolution as well--but, that would require a new wad.

Good point about the Chocolate Doom.

Edit: edited opengl paragraph.

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arkore, you sound like you really like Vanilla Doom (and I do to). Want to DM me in DOSBox sometime? Reply with a PM because this is way of topic of "Doom in true colour."

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32-bit software rendering looks quite nice, however there would be a high cost of speed lost due to rendering since instead of only being able to modify 1 pixel on 32-bits and 2 pixels on 64-bits at one single time (compared to 4/8).

However, you can still keep using PLAYPAL and colormaps exactly like you normally do in 8-bit mode. All you need to do is take the color data and do some simple linear interpolation on them (ReMooD does this for PLAYPAL for smoother pain fades, etc.). Then an extra step for 32-bit rendering, you need to figure out how to obtain value based offsets for the entire table. So basically, how much color to add or remove per table.

But not many WADs change the PLAYPAL and COLORMAP anyway so there's no real issue there.

Archy said:

arkore, you sound like you really like Vanilla Doom (and I do to). Want to DM me in DOSBox sometime? Reply with a PM because this is way of topic of "Doom in true colour."


Personally, I'd rather DM on a real system that runs DOS connected to the internet, like the one right next to me. DOSBox isn't the real thing although it is close. Chocolate Doom isn't the real thing although it is close.

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I still find it amazing that anyone would want to touch DosBox for classic Doom multiplayer considering how much effort has gone into making Chocolate Doom as reliable and as easy to setup as it is for this particular task.

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Porsche Monty said:

how much effort has gone into making Chocolate Doom as reliable and as easy to setup

That's too easy! The One True Way to play Doom involves IPX and/or Dwango, both of which are long dead.

Also, deathmatch sessions should be organized on BBS rather than on web sites because Tim Berners-Lee is just not vanilla enough.

Anyway, "Doom in true colour" is an awesome project and given Bruce's design choices it'll be perfectly possible to play the maps he wants to create for this port in vanilla or any other Doom port, just without the extra colorfulness.

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So is it fairly safe to say this port is going to crunch the holy hell out of older machines?

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Use3D said:

So is it fairly safe to say this port is going to crunch the holy hell out of older machines?


This particular port, yes, but this is just because of the way that color processing is undertaken: doing some millions of HSV -> RGB conversions every second (sometimes MORE than one per pixel in the same frame) is not going to be easy on the CPU(s), although it allows for certain neat effects.

Otherwise, it's quite possible to provide extended color support with relatively minimal overhead (e.g. 32K or 64K color with HiColor colormaps, or extended colormaps with True Color), if not that of using larger screen buffers/color depths. The "price" to pay for that is that you forfeit some otherwise cool color effects.

Sodaholic said:

EDIT: Please delete this post


WAS IT REALLY THAT BAD?!

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What's wrong with working in pure RGB?

Maes said:

WAS IT REALLY THAT BAD?!

No, just redundant. I replied to arkore's initial post on page 3 without reading the responses on page 4. Since what I had said had already been said by others, I figured there was no point in a redundant post.

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I think it's great work and I love seeing these screenshots. It's amazing the amount of improvement you can get just from doing what Vanilla Doom does, but more accurately.

arkore's comments are frankly, silly. No, it doesn't "look better" when Doom screws the colors up for distance lighting. If you prefer seeing it the way Vanilla did because of the nostalgia it gives you, then fair enough, play the game that way. But don't go criticizing someone for making a mod that changes things. People have been hacking on and changing the Doom source code ever since it was released 15 years ago, and it's probably the #1 thing that has kept interest in the game alive.

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I honestly wish I knew this was being worked on sooner. It's just that awesome.
I can not wait to see this released. :)

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_bruce_, I was wondering, how likely is it for you to consider releasing a beta of this? If you don't, I may be forced to track you down in real life and hold you at gunpoint with a SSG so you can give me a copy. :P

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Is it me or have the purists gotten worse recently? Suddenly Chocolate Doom is not "pure" enough (even though DOSBox somehow is), and the ugly color banding of vanilla doom is better than a nice, smooth fade-out?

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chungy said:

Is it me or have the purists gotten worse recently? Suddenly Chocolate Doom is not "pure" enough (even though DOSBox somehow is), and the ugly color banding of vanilla doom is better than a nice, smooth fade-out?

Doom isn't Doom unless it is played on a 12-inch EGA monitor with PC speaker sounds on a 386 SX 25 with 2 megabytes of RAM and no mouse.

Also, Doom v0.99 is the one true version. Anything later than that is a travesty. "Fixing" bugs? Adding "features"? Feh. Gamma correction is a cheat that denatured the game by making it easy and ugly.

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_bruce_ said:

In original Doom the metal room in E3M3 suffered the most from the palette... it can rest in piece now.


This is quite amazing! So it works with Chocolate Doom, you say?

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Oh, God, change the tags in your quote from [img] to [url], before someone edits in that embarrassing image about much the same. (I know, I thought it was common courtesy to re-post images on new pages as well.)

While on the topic of these pictures, I actually think the first one looks better for this type of texture in particular. The fuzziness adds a sort of ambient occlusion effect. The second picture, in my opinion looks too much like a video game texture - perhaps it's because I'm less free to use my imagination to fill in the gaps. I feel the same way about high-res textures on low-poly frames.

Either way, I'm excited about everything I've seen so far, even if I may not play with all of it enabled.

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Gez said:

Also, Doom v0.99 is the one true version.

Heresy! Doom 0.2 is the one true version! Tom is king!

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Been a long while since I've look at this thread, is there currently any download? This would be a good source port to play back LMPs from DSDA, better visuals than Vanilla Doom but it doesn't go overkill like GLBoom-Plus.

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Archy said:

Been a long while since I've look at this thread, is there currently any download? This would be a good source port to play back LMPs from DSDA, better visuals than Vanilla Doom but it doesn't go overkill like GLBoom-Plus.

Interesting idea, I want to watch demos in IDLSD mode.

There isn't any release yet, however, source or otherwise. It'll be released When It's Doneā„¢ according to other posts throughout this thread.

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Sorry for my ignorance, but what is IDLSD mode?

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I'm super happy that you're still working on this _bruce_. Keep up the good work, it looks great! :D

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If this guy's release is timed with that of Back to Saturn X, I'll be in super-heaven.

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Aficionados of Doom,

*silence*

due to somewhat unsettling events(family, outlook, country) there's been only subtle progress(cleanup).
A test release of the exe is LONG overdue - give me 5-7 days.

Maybe the first 3 maps of the megawad will be an added bonus(strictly within vanilla limits).

Some pics to prevent total boredom... "Map22"... I simply have a soft spot for it... the faint blue makes the marble in the lower caverns look so much colder...









...btw - creating the color file(simple text) via typing may be a perfect fit for generation jobless. ^^



@Xaser: Agreed on SaturnX stuff... I'm really picky but this seems good.

@Ladna: Thx

@Schwerpunk: Mode Classic looks exactly like classic Doom without the color bleeding.

@Fraggle: Tom looks like the perfect punching bag... never liked the spastic but I have great respect for him as a designer.

@Katamori: It's choco with another edible layer - Snickers was yesterday.

@Soda: Don't waste your 12 gauges of fun - you may need a gun sooner than you think.

@Maes: The cheapest way would be an option via drivers/hardware to have a HSV(or any other similar plunder) surface which the card just converts by itself before shooting it out to the monitor.

@Arkore: The look of the original will always be the defacto standard, so I understand your liking of the rough/gritty look the 256 color version has... it underlines the harshness of Doom's world.
I use choco exclusively when mapping/testing - it's my gold standard.

@Porsche: P4 sucks ass cycle wise but it's the cpu of choice in colder regions of the earth.
Just use the .exe with the gl backend for scaling and it will fly... no matter what your upscaled resolution.


Take care

This takes longer than expected - I should have known better... ^^

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