I'm sorry if I came off as smug, that was my attempt at being magnanimous haha. My bad.
So glad you care to be smug.
If you think me Wiresharking the launcher stuff was, as DaniJ said, in poor taste, I apologize. I wasn't getting a straight answer from you or phenex2 why you wouldn't support Doomseeker, and you were using the anti-name-faking feature as a reason, and I wanted to see if we couldn't work around that somehow.
Was I wrong in assuming that you wouldn't have told me how it worked if I had asked? By your own admission you don't remember exactly how it worked, yet you still felt comfortable enough saying it precluded supporting Doomseeker. You certainly don't seem eager to try and make changes to it in order to support Doomseeker, so I felt the onus was on me. This is the benefit of community discussion by the way, often times someone solves your problem for you :).
And indeed I do feel that I solved that problem: just have the master generate the auth hash, ez. Or are there other technical reasons you guys can't support Doomseeker?
I feel like it's a legitimate debate, and I think you represented the other side pretty well, so I was OK with it.
Regardless, I came here intending to keep a discussion about licensing. (Ok, mostly just to be a smartass about how the GPL locks your code into a license that prevents code-sharing with non-GPL projects. I'm surprised noone called me out on that.)
Well, really that was just me; in fairness you were acting like source closing never happens, and if it somehow does it isn't really that bad. ZDaemon seemed like a good example, seeing as we were kind of talking around it.
You all brought up the ZDaemon bullshit. You sit on your little GPL licensed towers, looking down on everyone else because they take a different approach to a problem.
Believe me when I say I have no interest in your community or your software. I just don't want you guys coming around Doomworld, acting like you're good citizens of our community, and shitting on people who actually are good citizens of our community (Blzut3).
Yet obviously this doesn't matter to you since you're banned. So the only thing we have that would matter to you is what we've built. You're not getting it, and you know it, so you try and call us out on any minute detail.
I also want to point out that I left the ZDaemon community pretty publicly before I was banned. It was my choice, no one else's.
This line of discussion is kind of a low ad-hominem, and I wish we could avoid it.
Rofl, ZDaemon is nothing like Apple. Apple sells more iPads in a day than you guys have users. Let's try and keep the delusions of grandeur to pipe-dream level, we're starting to rise to megalomania here.
@DaniJ: it's been a slightly interesting theoretical (I use this term since it's not something which will get implemented) discussion. I'm not in any mood to entertain it, since it has lead to a conversation where my only option is to say "that's all fine and dandy, but the ultimate answer is no." To which the pundits here will say "that's because they want control." Just like Apple. Well, fuck yes.
Regarding support stuff, just don't support it. Do you think Odamex supports IDE or Doomseeker (well OK, they pretty much help everybody out because they're cool, but they don't have to)? If you're gonna make a "we don't want to waste effort on supporting 3rd-party launchers" argument, along with saying, "we'll spend effort on obfuscating our launcher protocol so 3rd-party launchers aren't even possible", those are conflicting statements. And again, just don't support it.
If you want to make a "polished experience" argument you can make it, but Doomseeker is really, really nice. Just use Wadseeker if you want to be amazed.
No, I think cheating is a concern for any C/S source port. To list the big three:
Since you want to point out problems. Please tell me: How do you combat cheating in your source ports? Or do you just not concern yourself with it, since it's not a technical issue, but rather a player issue?
- Aimbots: statistics, maybe even nudging players 1 pixel this way or that to see if the aimbot switches predictably
- Wallhacks: work out a heuristic for withholding opponent positions if the player can't see them
- Speedhacks: work out a heuristic for limiting player speed (like ZDaemon's, probably)
I get the feeling you're gonna make a "closed source prevents cheating" argument, but that is something you and I both agree is not the case. If it were, we wouldn't need things like Punkbuster, and Valve would never ban anyone, and blah blah blah. It certainly hasn't been the case throughout ZDaemon's closed source history.
Finally, I agree with AlexMax 100%, as usual.
Last edited by Ladna on Dec 8 2012 at 20:11