Vampirajay's 'Biohazard' (Underworld Map13)...

boris said:

Welcome to the real world.

Well, the world sucks because there are rude assholes like you around.

Lemme give ya a free piece of advice, try to be a little more friendly towards people who spend a great deal of their spare time doing maps for the community to enjoy, and you the possibility of your own maps getting slagged off by the people you annoyed with your bashing comments will be lesser.

Not to mention that more people on these forums would respect you if you followed my advice.

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Mean people suck. -Some religion.

Contradictory people are confusing. -Me.

"Ma'am, your girlfriend said you're not a lesbian. Is this true?" -Some news reporter.

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I though MODs where supposed to be helpful...polite...encouraging...friendly....need i go on, you all get this gist...the reason being, one perticular MOD so far...has shown me none of the above, I am not exactly a noobie anymore...infact, this is the first time he has ever spoken to me...so my question is this...how the hell did you get MOD status Tarin?

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Vampirajay said:

[...]...how the hell did you get MOD status Tarin?

<Not for public exposure> :P

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Vampirajay said:

...how the hell did you get MOD status Tarin?


By always being helpful/having great knowledge about Doom, editors, scripting and programming/showing great op skills in various IRC channels/Being a respected mapper.

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then what the hell happened to him beacuse he hasn't been very helpful to me what-so-ever?

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Vampirajay said:

then what the hell happened to him beacuse he hasn't been very helpful to me what-so-ever?


Think about it. It's not so hard to figure out.

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Vampirajay said:

I am tired, enlighten me?


When some people release screenshots of complex, detailed screenshots of their levels, which they have worked on for an eternity, they often get little to no comments. Now he can see you guys releasing sub-medium detailed levels with opengl features and people go crazy with it. Now is that really fair?

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But then again, we are just stating our opinons of it, in a nice fashion. We are all entitled to our opinions, some may really like it, others may not, nevertheless, it is better to respect the map and the map maker, by not insulting it just cause you dont like sumthing about it, unless it truly helps with the progress of the map. You cant really expect us to only like and respect the maps that take an eternity and shun out the others, do you?

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Shaviro - I understand that, as i said before, i don't mind the fact that people don't like my ss, that i don't have a problem with but his comment

"Someone must have changed the pictures. I don't see anything too "wow" or "ass kicking" there. Oh wait, it's OpenGL WOWOWOWOWOWWOWOWOWOWOWO ASS KICKING R0X0RING !!!!!!!!!!!11111111"

That wasn't exactly fair either, tell you what, can i ask a favour of EVERYONE who replies to this thread. If you have a problem with my map can you please do as Ling and a few others have done, say you don't like it, explain why and maybe point me in the right direction. To be honest with you all, i am new to this, up until we started this map I had never used the jdoom engine, infact, i hadn't built a doom map ever, i used to build Duke Nukem maps,,,I really could do with some help and i would be grateful for it,,,I will now appologize, sorry for my comments earlier Tarin, What Shaviro said makes sence but please try and understand how i feel, please....

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Shaviro said:

When some people release screenshots of complex, detailed screenshots of their levels, which they have worked on for an eternity, they often get little to no comments. Now he can see you guys releasing sub-medium detailed levels with opengl features and people go crazy with it. Now is that really fair?


Hey Shav ;

a)The map's not yet finished - the screenshots were more to give an idea of the map's general feel - i'm sorry i didn't mention this originally. We've already done some work on areas that Ling pointed out.
b)You previously responded quite positively about our maps; i had no idea that you thought this way about the project.
c)This is quite a workload that we've taken upon ourselves - 32 levels and just two people. We're trying our best with limited time and resources, but we're constantly moving back and forth between old and new maps and tweaking various parts.

When we post our screenshots, we don't really expect comments - but it's encouraging to recieve them. Just looking at the differences between map01 and map13/15 shows me how much better we've got, and we still have plenty of room for improvement. The choice of Jdoom as our sourceport was for it's extra lighting effects and scripting.

Believe me, we're trying to make massive maps with emphasis on detail - it's just taking us time.
If people would prefer for us to leave the screenshots until the map is actually finished, i'd be more than happy. Unfortunatly, it goes without saying that Jay's been massively discouraged from doing even this.

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DOOM Anamoly said:

You cant really expect us to only like and respect the maps that take an eternity and shun out the others, do you?


Please don't bend my words like that.

Vampirajay said:

A long rant


When I was making TRTCC, I thought it was the best thing ever made. I released a demo of it and people absolutely hated it. Tarin was the first in line to yell. And you know what? I'm glad they yelled at me! Why? Because it made me practice until I could do eyecandy, good gameplay and complex scenes. What's the point of sugarcoating your opinion? The best way to learn how to swim is being tossed on the ocean. Think about it.

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Spike said:

Hey Shav ;

a)The map's not yet finished - the screenshots were more to give an idea of the map's general feel - i'm sorry i didn't mention this originally. We've already done some work on areas that Ling pointed out.


Well, that's great! But how is Tarin supposed to know that?


b)You previously responded quite positively about our maps; i had no idea that you thought this way about the project.


I have not yet given my opinion about these screenshots!


c)This is quite a workload that we've taken upon ourselves - 32 levels and just two people. We're trying our best with limited time and resources, but we're constantly moving back and forth between old and new maps and tweaking various parts.


So is everybody else, but you get way more attention because it is OpenGL, that is what's making some people feel 'overlooked' and 'stepped on'

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Shaviro said:

DOOM Anamoly said:

...Man, you guys really need to stop getting spelling lessons from Ravage, it's not healthy.

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Shaviro said:

When some people release screenshots of complex, detailed screenshots of their levels, which they have worked on for an eternity, they often get little to no comments. Now he can see you guys releasing sub-medium detailed levels with opengl features and people go crazy with it. Now is that really fair?

boris said:

Welcome to the real world.

Guess what, the real world isn't always fair. And if you're saying that Tarin is lashing out at jay because he's jealous that his levels (which are very good IMO) didn't get so much attention but these levels which maybe aren't as good are getting all sorts of acclaim, then maybe Tarin needs to see the "real world."

When I was making TRTCC, I thought it was the best thing ever made. I released a demo of it and people absolutely hated it. Tarin was the first in line to yell. And you know what? I'm glad they yelled at me! Why? Because it made me practice until I could do eyecandy, good gameplay and complex scenes. What's the point of sugarcoating your opinion? The best way to learn how to swim is being tossed on the ocean. Think about it.

But there's a huge difference between just shouting that the levels are godawful and explaining what needs to be done to make them better.

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Shaviro - you can't say that i didn't try and be nice and sort this out, I wasn't Ranting, i was explaining myself, If you can't tell when i am trying to be nice then why should i bother, don't worry shaviro, i won't be posting anymore SS again, what is the point when the only person who bothered to actually give me help was Ling, you MODs are supposed to do that but you left it up to your Forum leader...What good MODS you are....thank you for all your help...I posted those screen shots because i have been doubting how good my mapping actually was, I was thinking about quitting the underworld project beacause of this doubt, i was hoping for a little bit of reasurment, just to know that my maps was looking ok, but thanks to this thread it has just made me feel 10times worse, thank you (this post is not intended to the people who bothered to help) I don't know why i bothered doing these maps as all i got is shit of you, Tarin and Fredrik.

END OF RANT

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Archvile46 said:

Guess what, the real world isn't always fair. And if you're saying that Tarin is lashing out at jay because he's jealous that his levels (which are very good IMO) didn't get so much attention but these levels which maybe aren't as good are getting all sorts of acclaim, then maybe Tarin needs to see the "real world."


I do not think Tarin was referring to his own maps.

But there's a huge difference between just shouting that the levels are godawful and explaining what needs to be done to make them better.


Yes. Shouting seems harsh and brute, but it's just a way of giving your opinion without sugarcoating it. Explaining what needs to be done is fine, but sometimes it's beyond repair, like the old TRTCC levels.

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Then again, why even bother insulting and yelling at a map when you know it's just gunna cause anger and complications. If you don't like something about it, only post about it if its gunna help the map, not just cause u dont like it. Now, can't we all just put this behind us? plz?

(and yes, I do notice I am being a hypocrite.)

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Vampirajay said:

Shaviro - you can't say that i didn't try and be nice and sort this out, I wasn't Ranting, i was explaining myself, If you can't tell when i am trying to be nice then why should i bother, don't worry shaviro, i won't be posting anymore SS again, what is the point when the only person who bothered to actually give me help was Ling, you MODs are supposed to do that but you left it up to your Forum leader...What good MODS you are....thank you for all your help...I posted those screen shots because i have been doubting how good my mapping actually was, I was thinking about quitting the underworld project beacause of this doubt, i was hoping for a little bit of reasurment, just to know that my maps was looking ok, but thanks to this thread it has just made me feel 10times worse, thank you (this post is not intended to the people who bothered to help) I don't know why i bothered doing these maps as all i got is shit of you, Tarin and Fredrik.

END OF RANT


1. We weren't all born in an english speaking country. I thought rant was used for a showcase of opinions.
2. I am not a mod.
3. I was just trying to help the both of you understand eachother, but I really appreciate the attack. Next time something like this happens, I'll just stay out of it and not try to sorten it out, ok?!

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some pretty cool stuff there, spike & jay. cant wait to see the finished product.

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Shaviro said:

I do not think Tarin was referring to his own maps.

That's beside the point. It's just really stupid to attack someone else for receiving compliments about their maps, even if they aren't that great.

Yes. Shouting seems harsh and brute, but it's just a way of giving your opinion without sugarcoating it. Explaining what needs to be done is fine, but sometimes it's beyond repair, like the old TRTCC levels.

They say it's beyond repair. There's never a need to just go WOW THOSE MAPS SUCK YOU SUCK HAHAHAHA. And there's no way those maps are "beyond repair." Worse maps get into /newstuff every week.

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Calm down, no reason to go down to personal insults. And please don't confuse who posted what. I never said the screenshots are ugly (hello, DOOM Anomaly). If you're in need of attacking someone, maybe attack the ones that attacked you?
All I said was that I don't see what's so special about them - just because everybody was going crazy about them (and yes, they are not anything special, you may not see it now, but you will when you are more experienced).
About being mod: maybe I'll become a super mod when I start calling people "rude assholes"?

Archvile: no, I was not reffering to my levels.

To everything else, I can just aggree on what shaviro said.

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Well, it's mostly redundant now anyway. I'm sat here with a pregnant wife who's crying her eyes out.

What's more, she's just quit the Underworld project. The workload has just doubled.

At any rate, Jay was going about fixing some areas of the map when she read the earlier comments - here's one last shot.

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Archvile46 said:

That's beside the point. It's just really stupid to attack someone else for receiving compliments about their maps, even if they aren't that great.

They say it's beyond repair. There's never a need to just go WOW THOSE MAPS SUCK YOU SUCK HAHAHAHA. And there's no way those maps are "beyond repair." Worse maps get into /newstuff every week.


Well nobody in here said "WOW THOSE MAPS SUCK YOU SUCK HAHAHAHA.". If you read Tarin's post, you'll notice that in the first line he gives his opinion. "Someone must have changed the pictures. I don't see anything too "wow" or "ass kicking" there."

The next line he gave his point about OpenGL versus not OpenGL.

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boris said:

Calm down, no reason to go down to personal insults. And please don't confuse who posted what. I never said the screenshots are ugly (hello, DOOM Anomaly).

Hello! And thank you for spending the time to spell my name right..ahem... :P

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I think it's easy to get too hung up on architectural details. Those screenshots showed what looked to me like a potentially interesting place to Doom in. Whether they are great, good or indifferent maps will be determined for me primarily by how the gameplay turns out.

I don't have any particular comments on what especially appeals or what could be improved, but the first impression was favourable and I saw no harm in giving a few words of encouragement. I'll be willing to offer some more constructive comments when (hopefully it's when, rather than if) there is a playable version ready.

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boris said:

All I said was that I don't see what's so special about them - just because everybody was going crazy about them (and yes, they are not anything special, you may not see it now, but you will when you are more experienced).

Then give them some advice on how to make them more special. They certainly aren't utter crap as it seemed you and some others were implying.

Archvile: no, I was not reffering to my levels.

Even so, that's not the point. The point is that it's dumb to criticize something else so harshly just because other, better maps weren't getting as much notice. You could always just be happy that spike and jay are trying to make an entire megawad for us to enjoy and that some people really like it.

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Archvile46 said:

Then give them some advice on how to make them more special. They certainly aren't utter crap as it seemed you and some others were implying.

Even so, that's not the point. The point is that it's dumb to criticize something else so harshly just because other, better maps weren't getting as much notice. You could always just be happy that spike and jay are trying to make an entire megawad for us to enjoy and that some people really like it.


Please be so kind of pointing me to where Tarin said it sucked or anything like that.

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Archvile46 said:

Then give them some advice on how to make them more special. They certainly aren't utter crap as it seemed you and some others were implying.

NO, I was NOT implying that. Read my posts.

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