Genetic Disaster Released

But why are most Doomsday/Risen3D projects distributed as bloated installers

The simple answer is because the mod authors arn't using the tools available to them correctly.

As I'm sure you're aware (Graf) there is no need to package mods in this way, so don't go blaming the port because the mod is organised badly.

Consequently they are the only ports with which I ever had problems like this. Engine problems nonwithstanding I was able to start each and every mod for each and every other port without any hassle - and without any crappy launcher! In my opinion a launcher should be a tool of convenience to make it easier to select and start the mods you want, not something that is needed because without it it is impossible to do that.

Doomsday's entire interface appears like it was designed by technocrats. Unfortunately Risen3D seems to push this approach even further. Just reading the docs that explain how to do 3D floors and slopes made me scratch my head in disbelief. These have to be the most harebrained methods to do this stuff!

Blah, blah, blah...

Once again you feel it necessary to peddle your own missinterpretations as fact.

Please, in future provide some backup for your claims.

Let me ask you a question. How do I get hires textures working in GZDoom? Answer = The same way I do in Doomsday, simply load a PK3.

I find it amazing Graf, that after we discussed this issue at the ZDoom forums and you agreed with me that loading a mod for GZDoom is EXACTLY the same as loading a mod for Doomsday - that you still persist with this kind of crap.

MOD AUTHORS: Put it all in a ZIP so we can load it easily!

---

How you can accuse the Doomsday interface as being for technocrats and champion ZDoom's approach is beyond me. Considering that to do even the simplest thing I need to know command line flags and am forced to use the console.

I'm really starting to tire of your constant attempts to promote ZDoom's way of doing things as "The only way".

Personally, I'm sick of hearing about this "portX does Y better than portZ, portZ sucks! rofl" bullshit.

Doomsday (and Risen3D) do things differently for a reason.

The interfaces may not be as simple as drag a WAD on the EXE but when we're finished adding our 'modern sophisticated data organization' "bullshit" as you call it, we'll have a system as simple to use as your primative alternative and infinetly more robust.

Stop the shit slinging Graf. For someone in your position in the community you should have more respect for the people that put their time and effort into these things.

I don't take kindly to people like you dropping snide, personal remarks directed at the individuals who write these ports at every available opportunity.

Funny how you seem quite happy to use the same peoples code in your own port on the QT.

I thought that you might be a decent person after our talks at ZDoom and perhaps Deepteam had gotten you all wrong but you've definetly proven that I was completely wrong for thinking otherwise.

Don't bother to reply, I'm done with you.

Maybe I'll regret having said this latter on but I'm so shocked by your behaviour that I'm totally pissed off with you atm.

DaniJ said:

The simple answer is because the mod authors arn't using the tools available to them correctly.

As I'm sure you're aware (Graf) there is no need to package mods in this way, so don't go blaming the port because the mod is organised badly.

I blame the ports because they make it so easy to create crap distributions. It doesn't matter what the mappers can do, it matters what they actually do and that's not usable resource files. In most cases (the few there are) it's a messy directory structure that is copied into the Doomsday/Risen3D directory. Genetic Disaster is not the first fight agaist this I had and the end result was the same each time. At some point I lost interest in the map and dumped it.

Rather than saying endlessly that it is possible to create better distributions, how about changing the system so that they have to be better to work properly?

This is a perfect case that shows that too much flexibility can backfire miserably.


And now I shut up. This little disaster put me in a really foul mood (and the stress at work today really didn't help there) and I have no desire to think about it any longer. Risen3D is gone from my HD and there is little chance I'll bother with it again in the foreseeable future.

Why not just make it exactly like quake-Doom3 (and Vavoom) and use mod dirs? I recall that when I was gonna try one of sitters maps I had to copy files to the data directories and stuff. (Which I assume is the equivalent of the base directory in the quake games)

But if you just used mod dirs like modern games, then it doesn't matter if the file is packaged as a pk3 or if it's left as a directory structure (like sitters likes to do to save a few FPS's). You simply unzip it in the doomsday dir and run the mod.

If Doomsday and Risen3d already are using this method. Then I apologise for not getting my facts straight first. And if they do. I can only conclude that it's sitter that fucked up when he packaged the mods he made. Rather than the port authors.

I remember that when i installed a mod called Alien Dimension or something, I didn't have any problems with the installation at all. Although the mod was quite shoddy.

I seem to recall the Doom64 TC worked something like this... thus the reason why the D64 TC is the only JDoom mod I have ever played.

Wasn't Doom64 released as standalone?

Doom64 requires the Doom2.wad last time I checked.

The Doom64 TC was originally released as an add-on, but was made into a stand alone release when it would get borked every time Doomsday would update. Even when it was just an add-on, it was still at least 10 times easier to set up than Risen3D was.

FWIW, I downloaded the four files, made a new installation (as recommended), copied the iwads there, and Genetic Disaster worked fine (on four-year-old hardware) first time, without any fuss. The wad looks good.

OK, I'll own up to having just a tiny little bit of prior experience with the R3D launcher, so I knew to look in "Udir folders".

I only have a tad experiance with launchers and I got gen disaster to work pretty well on first try. Not sure what all the insane fuss is about.

I only have a tad experiance with launchers and I got gen disaster to work pretty well on first try. Not sure what all the insane fuss is about.

You probably downloaded the fixed distro. It seems that they've changed the files on the homepage now (there were only three files previously and the "service pack" is no longer one of them).

We always try to make things better and improve the stuff.

That is what we doing with the levels also with the port.

And what its all about ?
Have an nice hobby, and to give the public enjoy and fun playing games.

Whats me disappointing is that authors of an port are trowing mud to other authors, and playing dirty games to promote there own port.

That is very infantile, and Asocial.
Tell me what is the game we play here ?

Are we an forum to make nice levels, learn from each-other and enjoy what we are doing?

Or are we playing doom in this forum and try to kill each other ( O_o what an fun ).

Maybe it is time we are growing up, and going behaving like adults and respect each-others work.
And give positive criticize to let it grow.


Greetings

I hear ya sitters. Please don't let some of the terrible comments here deter your efforts to produce stunningly beautiful levels for R3D. I, for one, enjoy them and am grateful there are folks like you that put the time and effort into making FREE games for me to enjoy in the little free time I have. I do not have the skills or the time to create much myself and really appreciate what you, and many others, do to keep Doom alive and well.

Please don't get discouraged! I'd hate to see the dinks ripping you push you away from mapping. I'm sure some of them would absolutely love to have your crazy modeling skills. Even if they don't enjoy the game play, or can't figure out R3D, I can't figure out why some of the comments are approaching personal insults to you.

Thank you again for your contributions to the Doom community and I really am looking forward to Stargate. That is one of my favorite shows ever.

Peace out.

Wow, way to be a complete mong and miss the point of the entire thread Old Man. Attempt reading comprehention skills, everyone posting here is a long time member of this community, and most are prominent modders as well. Looks to me like the vague install procedure was the real debate, not jealousy as you are attempting to indicate. But I suppose you're right, we should just kiss ass and not provide constructive criticism.

Suba Steve said "Wow, way to be a complete mong and miss the point of the entire thread Old Man"

My apologies then, I guess. I don't claim to have even 1/1000th the Doom knowledge that anyone else posting here has. And I didn't want to infer jealousy as a reason of posts, I just thought anyone would love to be able to create and utlize models like sitters does if they can't already do so.

I thought sitters said he was part of the R3D development team and also thought a lot of the complaints (constuctive criticism?) were aimed at him in that capacity since they are posted in his thread. I guess I read it wrong. Since I don't know a lot about Doom ports I just couldn't figure out why there is so much problem with R3D. I may just be used to using somewhat non-intuitive programs but I've had very little problem with using it, not modding for it.

Just wanted to clarify. Now back to the regularly scheduled port bashing....I mean constructive criticism of the level in question.

Scuba Steve said:
Wow, way to be a complete mong and miss the point of the entire thread Old Man. Attempt reading comprehention skills, everyone posting here is a long time member of this community, and most are prominent modders as well. Looks to me like the vague install procedure was the real debate, not jealousy as you are attempting to indicate. But I suppose you're right, we should just kiss ass and not provide constructive criticism.

Yeah, or read alternately; if it hadn't have been for a couple or so people that posted in an intelligible and responsive manner this thread wouldn't have been worth much and would have merely shown that some people have a posting ability as bad as or worse than the the R3D package's setup procedure.

BlackFish said:

Good map.

Anyway have you messed with Gzdoom? *not to advertise*

There's Hires textures along with dynamic lights, as well as ability to create monsters and weapons. There's also md2 and md3 support! Another feature you may find useful is the 3d floors.

I was thinking maybe you would be one of the first mappers to fully expose all of these features in a gzdoom wad, seeing that you can do such a thing for Risen.

oh... where to get it!

http://grafzahl.drdteam.org

Would be nice to see a wad that abuses the better features of gzdoom.

I did some experiments with Gzdoom, but the rendering isn't fast enough ( 35% of Risen3D ).

Also the rendering is not smooth.

So on this moment only one port can handle my maps.


Greetings