"Ultimate Torment & Torture" Progress Report

Wait....then if your making this Torm, then does that mean TNT4 is already finished?

KingofFlames said:

Wait....then if your making this Torm, then does that mean TNT4 is already finished?

...hehe ;)

@NMN - Thx for the weapon fix, will add this to my KeyConf right now!

Concerning the FlameThrower, I have never had such a problem because I used it by browsing through my weapons (next/prev weapon) and that worked.

@Kristus/AgentSpork - The portals/stacked sectors in ZDoom are very (!) stable and not creating any HOMs if used correctly, that is what I experienced so far. There are some tipps in the WIKI and over at ZDoom.org in some threads, that explains how to use them and how to prevent any HOMs. The shots above show some very complex usage of the stacked sectors but I don't get any single HOM in there!

Nice looking shots as always, but I was wondering, I assume stacked sectors have a use beyond a nice-looking visual gimmick?

The Flange Peddler said:

Nice looking shots as always, but I was wondering, I assume stacked sectors have a use beyond a nice-looking visual gimmick?

Not really. But isn't nice looking visuals an important aspect of mapping?

Graf Zahl said:

Not really. But isn't nice looking visuals an important aspect of mapping?

Exactly, just think about how this area:

...has looked in TNT1 and how it looks now. Stacked sectors - although they are just a visual gimmick - give a map a whole lotta more depth, thats for sure!

Graf Zahl said:

Not really. But isn't nice looking visuals an important aspect of mapping?

Obviously yes, but I tend to find it much more impressive when an author is able to make interesting architecture that also actually has a part to play in the design and layout of a level, rather than just being there as a visual treat. There are plenty of mappers out there these days that can make their maps look 'nice', but far fewer who can make inspiring architecture that actually also interacts with the gameplay proper.

The stacked sectors in the shots obviously do look nice, I'm just not convinced they'll make the area play much better than how it already does in the original.

By interacting architecture you meant such that directly affects gameplay, such as lifts/doors/moving floors, lethal traps, or that interacts indirectly, providing cover for enemy fire, an alternative route to escape a monster?

Apologise to Tormentor for offtopic, but I've found the man's post (Flange's) quite valuable.

Well, I think what he is reffering to is the possibly ability to move through the portals and thus adding a 3rd dimension to the gameplay. Rather than having just a skyportal.

If you wanna do that, you just have to wait for the next version of Eternity.

Pardon my noobness, but what exactly are "stacked sectors"? I wasn't quite able to tell from the screenshot. Is that when you create a faux-3D bridge out of vertical and horizontal planes, but it's not really solid?

http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/index.php?title=Stacked_Sectors
That oughta do it.

I am very interested in stacked sectors...! :) Maybe I'll use them in "Italian DooM - Episode 2"!

Nmn said:

By interacting architecture you meant such that directly affects gameplay, such as lifts/doors/moving floors, lethal traps, or that interacts indirectly, providing cover for enemy fire, an alternative route to escape a monster?

I guess I meant both really, and what Kristus said. In that shot with the stacked sectors (I'm assuming) you can't have imps firing down on the player from above, and the player will never be able to traverse to that section of the map during play. It's just for show.

Obviously Doom's limited Z-axis means that most ceiling architecture is likely to be a purely visual treat. So I guess that what I meant by architecture that is also a part of a map's layout, is stuff like ledges and floor height variation, which are an intrinsic part of a map's layout, but which also come together to form some larger structure overall. Like the huge reactor core in Equinox map 13, or quite a lot of stuff by Eric Alm, such as the castle battlements/lava river in Scythe 2 map 26.

But anyway... back to TNT. I haven't played most of the series in a while, so can't really comment on how they could be improved. I did however play TNT1 recently, and found the layout quite flat overall. And that room with all the spiders/cyberdemons could be improved. I'd try and make it more of a challenge for the player to get to that switch which kills them all - as it is it's pretty easy as none of the monsters have room to move.

And I also seem to remember some annoying Railgun zombies in TNT:LE...

deleted

The Flange Peddler said:

Obviously Doom's limited Z-axis means that most ceiling architecture is likely to be a purely visual treat.

This is obviously not true. Many source ports... Most source ports have since long passed this limit by adding 3d floors, 3d models, 3dtextures (Eternity only) and soon in Eternity portals which you will be able to travel, shoot, and whatever else through. Not to mention the numerous tricks and hacks that already was a part of Doom editing before source ports even came.

You just can't stop pimping Eternity? :P I'll have to try that source port if it's saw-good.

Nmn said:

You just can't stop pimping Eternity?

Everybody has their own favourite. Go GZDoom!

...umm, what 3D textures are, anyway?

Nmn said:

You just can't stop pimping Eternity? :P I'll have to try that source port if it's saw-good.

Somebody has to. :p

3d textures are midtextures that clip. So you can walk on top and below them at the same time.

Basically they make doing those texture bridges as easy as selecting a linedef flag. Oh, and you can make lifts and stuff out of them too.

Yes, but they don't block whatever is below them either.

kristus said:

Somebody has to. :p
3d textures are midtextures that clip. So you can walk on top and below them at the same time.

Isn't ZDoom also capable of something like that? AFAIK Strife had such a flag/linedef special that makes midtextures clip...

Tormentor667 said:

Isn't ZDoom also capable of something like that? AFAIK Strife had such a flag/linedef special that makes midtextures clip...

ZDoom doesn't. But I added support for non-movable 3D textures to GZDoom.

The Strife flag is rather limited because it always treats the texture as 32 pixels high.

Why not map the new TNT for gzdoom since it allows for 3-D floors?

GoatLord said:

Why not map the new TNT for gzdoom since it allows for 3-D floors?

Because I want TNT to be compatible with the main ZDoom so it's playable on other sourceports as well!

Okay, some latest progress report:

TNT1 is fully revised, done and fully playable with skill settings and all that stuff. Beyond, each TNT (as you can see in the screenshot) got a new skybox texture (by Sphagne) that looks just awesome and absolutely beautiful compared to this old warping liquid flat.

Beyond (thx to Graf Zahls help), all the maps with weather effects (TNT3 MAP01, TNT4 MAP02 and (!) TNT2 MAP01) got some nifty script including a toggleable key, that activates and deactivates the weather effects (snow, rain, meteors) for slower machines or faster, whether you like it or not.

For now, I continue with TNT2 and I already did a lot of interesting work to this installation of THE ULTIMATE TNT: It got a more impressive Thunder Effect (some skybox tricks ;)) and of course, finally some (toggleable) rain, that enhances the atmosphere of this map a lot.

Overall, I have also added sparks to the bullet puffs and beyond blood that stays a while and makes the battles more gory ;) Maybe splattering guts will follow soon, we will see!

Another thing I'd like to tell you is, that the complete Interface has been restyled (mostly GFXs and Fonts) so the whole thing looks just better.

Plans have also changed a bit: Risen will maybe help me with a sort of KDiZD Intermission Map, not that intense but a cut-down version for TUTNT and even a hub system is planned, that just lets you play TNT4 if you have completed all the others (thx to NMN for the idea)!

More to come soon... ;)

Ya. Besides, GZdoom sux nutz. :(

How does GZDoom suck? It's just ZDoom with OpenGL and a bunch of new OpenGL editing features!

Nice Screenshot Torm, looking forward to playing the finished product :)

Glad to see we're getting some damn good wads coming out these days.

New shot from TNT2:
- Enhanced Lava Glow
- New Skybox Ceiling (Clouds)
- Rain



Small note:
Weather is toggable now, that means for weaker machines, they can still play TNT :)

That area looks prettier with the rain :)

KingofFlames said:

How does GZDoom suck?

One of the reasons include that the corpse sprites penetrate through the floors.

observe closely for yourself.

GZDoom



ZDoom