For everyone with music problems:

THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!

...that should help :P

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The Introduction seqeunce was amazing! Nice job!

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Tormentor667 said:

THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!


What part of "Knee Deep in ZDoom" does everyone have a problem with? It's a title derived from "Knee Deep in the Dead" which was a DOOM episode 1 level set. Nothing about that says DOOM 2. It's not that hard people.

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Only pet peeve from me is that you run out of Shotgun shells quite quickly, and you just happen to be up against hordes of imps.

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I've played the three first maps and a bit of the fourth and so far it's been a bit mixed bag for me. Certainly a ton of work has gone into this wad, no doubt about that, but some things just don't work in my opinion. But before I'll nag further and make this look like utter shit, which it isn't, I'll give my praises:
-Z1M1 and Z1M3 are both awesome levels. M3 might be a bit too easy while the difficulty in M1 is just right; I don't know what game and wad those people who whined about lack of ammo have been playing, but I was never too low on ammo. Tight, certainly, but not once did I have to tyson my way out.

-Some of the tricks used (you know what they are) are damn neat. The detail is very...detailish (:-P) as well. Kudos for that.


Then the average:
-Gameplay has been, so far, mostly average. It's better than the dull fests of a lot of post-DooM fps games and quite a few modern wads (GoD, RTC...), but it's nothing special either. I'm looking forward to some actually tense or hectic moments in the later levels. Don't you dare to let me down, or else... ;-)


The ugly:
-I've never really understood what people mean when they whine that maps are overdetailed, but I think I might have got it now. Well okay, the detail in KDiZD certainly doesn't hurt gameplay BUT there's so freaking TONS of detail that it loses most of its function. When the maps are literally full of detail the screen is always way too busy for the player to pick out most of the detail and he just starts to ignore it all. If the maps had two thirds of the current detail they'd look a lot better since the player could actually pay attention to the detail.

-Z1M2. Barely any RE-make. Odd texture combinations at places. Not bad, but rather pointless.

-The custom monsters. I can see that if you are making a wad with 9 large levels with only the stock Doom 1 monsters you might want to have something new, but the graphics of most of the new monsters don't fit. At least with a software rendered and without texture/sprite filtering, since the new monster sprites are a lot smoother than the original monsters are, looking completely out of place.

-The round light sprites placed at floor lamps, ceiling lights, etc. They. Are. UGLY. This is one feature without which this wad would have looked A LOT better (save for the very beginning of Z1M4, there they actually look ok).

-The sideviews for items are ugly, too. The idea is nice, but it just doesn't work when you have only eight different directions drawn.



So, so far it looks like a wad with which the authors went "a bit" too overboard and just by cutting down some features it could have been way better. But I'll have to see how the rest of the maps are...


Edit: Just finished M4 and I'll have to say that this map proved most of my fears false, even if just for one map. I really like the new take on the area behind the blue key door, a nice fight there, and I even more like the big area leading from the beginning of the original map (red key, caves, and a bunch of other stuff). The first curved hallway, the dark hall with the fan and the dark caves really felt like playing Abuse in first person. Now *that* was awesome.

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Hey Tormentor, I'm having some problems with my music, what's up with that? :p

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Darkfyre said:

Hey Tormentor, I'm having some problems with my music, what's up with that? :p

You are not funny!

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Question: Why is it possible to play it in the DOOM2 IWAD anyways?

Assessment of the WAD: It was good I just finished it today. I did not attain any of the "90%" or above of secrets/items/kills, or did I get PAR at all, but I was given access to Z1M10. That map was great.

I did not like the vast complexity of the maps, as the originals were not nearly as complex. I mean, all 6 keys in map 3? Come on.

Other than that, I really enjoyed this, and the last boss and mini-boss fights tough, but not impossible. I really enjoyed the fight where you had to kill 5 Barons to move on, it was nothing but circle strafing to avoid the Shadow Imp's continuous onslaught. It was very tough, but I made it (WITHOUT CHEATING). (This sounds like sarcasm, but truest me, it is not sarcasm.)

My suggestion: SAVE A LOT, 'nuff said. This was great effort, now I can't wait for The Shores of ZDoom!

P.S. I really liked the note "Vader says: You should not be here, stop cheating, and get back on track!" in map four if you were invulnerable. I did not cheat during this mapset, but I did at the end of every level run around in no-clip/invulnerability so I could enjoy all the nice architecture I missed while fighting demons. I throughly enjoyed everything this map set had to offer.

P.P.S.: Whoever designed the last boss fight, must play World of Wacraft. Reminds me of the Ragnaros fight.

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I think its possible with the Doom2 Iwad because of the Z1M*
instead of E1 or Map**

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but you get all kinds of errors when you use Doom2.wad

Missing textures, bad music, weird/out of place sounds, etc...

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Tormentor667 said:

THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!
THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!

I don't get it, what exactly are you trying to say?

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Antidote said:

P.S. I really liked the note "Vader says: You should not be here, stop cheating, and get back on track!" in map four if you were invulnerable.


Heh, I wouldn't have thought someone actually triggers this script... at least not in such a short time. Good job on finding this one ;)
It's in Z1M6 though!


P.P.S.: Whoever designed the last boss fight, must play World of Wacraft. Reminds me of the Ragnaros fight.


Sorry to disappoint you, but I've never played WoW nor seen something other from it than a few screenshots :)

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Vader said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but I've never played WoW nor seen something other from it than a few screenshots :)


Oh because when the guy disappears and summons the imps, it reminds me when Ragnaros disappears and summons the Sons of Ragnaros.

Vader said:

Heh, I wouldn't have thought someone actually triggers this script... at least not in such a short time. Good job on finding this one ;)
It's in Z1M6 though!


M6? Didn't think it was that late. No matter, it wasn't that hard to find.

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Vader said:

Heh, I wouldn't have thought someone actually triggers this script... at least not in such a short time. Good job on finding this one ;)
It's in Z1M6 though!


Haha, yeah, I found that today too. That's my favorite area out of everything I've seen so far in KDIZD, by the way. Awesome work.

DJShrimpy said:

THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!

I don't get it, what exactly are you trying to say?


I don't know but I tried this with plutonia.wad and it didn't work!

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Tormentor667 said:

THIS IS FOR DOOM.WAD, NOT DOOM2.WAD!


Wait, are you telling me that I shouldn't use Strife1.wad after all? O__o

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I actually used DOOM2.WAD... I was a bit sleepy and didn't notice.. So, if I play it with DOOM.WAD, does it have different music with different levels? Though I'd probably still turn the music off, since it takes me about 30 min to play through the levels, maybe longer... and I like the ambient sounds in the levels. I'd also liked to have some flashlight. I felt like:"HOORRAAY! A FLASHLIGHT!" when I saw that dead marine with flashlight point up, but then I just couldn't pick it up...

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I actually listen to Neurological's music remixes as I play this and I must say, they fit absolutely perfectly.

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Da Spadger said:

Wait, are you telling me that I shouldn't use Strife1.wad after all? O__o

No, use HERETIC.WAD, that should work. And in worst cases, feel free to try DUKE3D as well.

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I think the detail was really nice, I am very curious as to how many of the effects were done, such as vertical fade lighting, the view screens, and so on and so forth.

The game play was interesting, with the new monsters and all. The last level is especially fascinating, with one of the most intricate boss fights I've seen.

The new monsters were a bit off, but they were still awesome. I thought the goat beasts were cute. I played through this a second time and I left all of those critters alive.

The rifle is the best new weapon ever.

However... some negatives:

I got lost, often, and that's not good. Maybe fun for someone who loves puzzle maps though.

I hardly have any other complaints though, as I paid... 0.00 for this... while weeks of man-hours were poured into this project. I think the authors deserve a BIG FREAKING commendation.

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Joe Capricorn said:
The new monsters were a bit off, but they were still awesome. I thought the goat beasts were cute. I played through this a second time and I left all of those critters alive.

From the one's I've seen, the combination of monsters remind me more of the DOOM Bible than what DOOM's monsters became eventually, as in the Bible progressively more powerful monsters are said to use "magic", and these had attacks that gave them that aspect (as opposed to DOOM's slightly more "material" or "raw" monsters).

I think a bit of infighting would have helped spice things up if standard infighting was considered a problem. Not sure if ZDoom can do this, but maybe a smaller (than usual) chance of infighting, perhaps with knee jerk style limitation (like the Lost souls have) may have made sense, making the monsters only occasionally pissed off at each other for short exchanges, thus usually not to the death unless a huge monster were facing a wimpy one.

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myk said:

I think a bit of infighting would have helped spice things up if standard infighting was considered a problem. Not sure if ZDoom can do this, but maybe a smaller (than usual) chance of infighting, perhaps with knee jerk style limitation (like the Lost souls have) may have made sense, making the monsters only occasionally pissed off at each other for short exchanges, thus usually not to the death unless a huge monster were facing a wimpy one.

This is the best feature suggestion for ZDoom that I have heard for a long time... :) You really should tell randy or Zahl about that idea!

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Even better if accompanied by spoken words and hahs... I'd demand monster coalitions (ranks) too. Or monsters who grow more powerful after a friendly kill (a baron killing a cacodemon gains 400 health points after ingesting it).

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Very impressive, this map was worth the wait :D. My only complaint is that the final boss is too easy.

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HOM effect detected in level 2, coordinates (-326, 3573, -8). It's caused by a two-sector shaft lower-wait-raise lift when something blocks the outer sector from raising. It's really easy to reproduce.

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So tormentor, how about adding the new kdizd monsters into UT&T Invasion?

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Tormentor667 said:
You really should tell randy or Zahl about that idea!

I gather Graf Zahl will see it here if it sparks his interest. The thing is that DOOM's infighting is limited when adding enough new monsters is concerned (which ZDoom can so easily do). It would probably be best to include 4 variables (3 monster specific, 1 global):

  • Monster belongs to a family, being treated as if of the same species (by default the Baron of hell and the Hell knight form one)
  • Monster won't be targetted (like the Archvile)
  • Monster only pecks once at offending monsters (by default the Lost soul does this)
  • A chance any monster won't infight when it normally would (to make it globally less likely).
All the options are currently part of the engine, but hardcoded, except the last, which is merely a degree between full and no infighting, so they all should fit into a Doom engine rather well. Not sure if any of them can be implemented already in some way, but I didn't hear about it, if so.

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myk said:

making the monsters only occasionally pissed off at each other for short exchanges, thus usually not to the death unless a huge monster were facing a wimpy one.

This has already been done for MBF, I'd rather ask Quasar to make it work for all monsters.

Lost souls only attack once, because of how their charge attack behaves, not because of their Dehacked number. Unlike archviles, knights and barons.

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