HOKUTO no Cathedral!

I agree as well. You won't disappoint anybody by forgetting about those ancient limits. Mapping for limit-removing Doom ports is pure enough in our eyes.

Good luck in the auto industry. That isn't a place that I'd like to be right now.

Thanks for the notes regarding limitations.
Well basically I'm using Doombuilder so I may suppose there are no limitations (are they ?).

In order to test the mix between textures, architecture, and sprites, I used around 20 baron of hell in the map (when reaching 24 got engine shutdown) and 20 benches (when I put more, no problem).
Is there a relation between engine ressource for a sprite and ressources for linedefs ? (1 sprite = x linedefs ?)

Concerning map constitution, I'm taking some ideas from Reinchard maps and works, also from "crucified dreams" "deus vult2" "gothic dm" (can we call this benchmark ? :D)

Won't be annoying about architecture but some up-listed maps are lagging on my laptop, so I'll certainly need to use a lower level of architecture to better test this map project.
A trick would be to hide non visible parts or to continue this way of "trompe l'oeil" textures in order to simulate fake 3D effects.

I'm actually working on "Chagall" tainted glasses and some "Jaumont" stone texture.
Luckyly most of the upper part glasses had been bombed during WW2, so they are in white colored glass, that'll spare part of the texture work :D

EDIT : Hope that Doom marine likes the PMed original MIDI theme :D
_______

For auto industry, I'm fortunaly in service parts, consequently when people don't buy fresh cars, they fix them... so my ass is quite safe for a year (hope so :D).

That MIDI sounds alright, it gets the job done, not bad, but not that catchy either. Try sending files under 10 MB via email instead of Megaupload next time, it's a waste of my time to have to wait a minute to download a 22kb file.

As for the engine shutdown, what engine were you testing your map under? From the sound of it, I'd guess that you were testing it under an extremely limited engine... like Doom2.exe? The ZDoom or PrBoom engine is the way to go, try it and see what happens.

For ideas and works, padding your map with resources before you continue mapping can be good for your work. Since you ran into copyright permission stuff in the past and may have some doubts, here's my take: you may preemptively use any resources present in DVII as permitted in the textfile, provided the due accreditation. I'm not so sure what you can do with the other wads that are not mine, check with the authors or textfiles. In any case, the more resources (e.g. textures and flats on hand) the more options you have on the fly when it comes to fleshing out your cathedral in 3d mode.

Sorry, got some issues with my Hotmail account (maybe Firewall conflict, no idea) so used this way.

I'm always testing MIDI music on my good old 486 DX2 66Mhz to seek if there are some non working effects on wavetable.

Thanks for the possible reuse of DVII by crediting, will see this in a coming future as I'm currently working on original textures.

I wrote previously about inspiration, I'm not talking about map "cloning", I'm just taking the atmosphere or construction ideas, position of some elements, lights,...

"DVII" is impressive for 3D modeling, while "crucified dreams" offer use of less ressource by using 2D fake 3D effects.

I'm now working on this Chagall tainted glass and try to fit the best the regular Doom palette :
http://emilyandjim.info/images/DSC02128.JPG

Afterwhat I'll concentrate on wood material study...

im in favor of reconsidering the vanilla aspect. make it boom or gzdoom or something, but nice work on the textures anyways.

Thanks, I simply try to balance mapping limits with custom "handmade" textures. Certainly better skilled with Photoshop than Doombuilder :D

There's only one problematic thing where I'll have a huge research, or maybe not exactly respect the real monument.

Normally there are no benches but chairs in this cathedral neve.
Main issue is to generate such chairs with a low quantity of linedefs.
I'm working on a trick, with cyan transparent color and hope this'll work.

If it is not possible to design valid chairs, benches tests are fine, only 4 linedefs, would try to find some wood basis and add on sides some engravers.
There are benches in other parts of the cathedral so I'll reuse them as a working basis.

Didn't remember who said that end 2008 ETD was to short, indeed, but I won't have to hurry and prefer focus on render quality.

Wow...that in-game screenshot looks so cool......
But I may not play it due it's DM only, shame on me. :(


Sorry. But maybe I will take a look when it released.
And I don't care what engine needed for the WAD.

:)

you, sir, should play more DM...
now!

Those screenies look great. Floor looked a little plain, probably needs some carpets or something. But very impressive nonetheless.

iceman57 said:

Thanks, I simply try to balance mapping limits with custom "handmade" textures. Certainly better skilled with Photoshop than Doombuilder :D

There's only one problematic thing where I'll have a huge research, or maybe not exactly respect the real monument.

Normally there are no benches but chairs in this cathedral neve.
Main issue is to generate such chairs with a low quantity of linedefs.
I'm working on a trick, with cyan transparent color and hope this'll work.

If it is not possible to design valid chairs, benches tests are fine, only 4 linedefs, would try to find some wood basis and add on sides some engravers.
There are benches in other parts of the cathedral so I'll reuse them as a working basis.

Didn't remember who said that end 2008 ETD was to short, indeed, but I won't have to hurry and prefer focus on render quality.

...but you shouldn't even be worried about linedef limits, just throw away doom2.exe and test everything in ZDoom from now on, no more techical limitations. You can make the benches (and everything else) as detailed as possible without having to spend the effort on saving linedefs and resorting to tricks.

For a project like your cathedral, having it doom2.exe compatible will severely limit your progress and its grandeur. Use ZDoom to run your map and forget trying to save linedef count, make it as detailed as any Gothic cathedral. Are you listening?

PS: Those pillars surrounding the nave should be more than just hexagons, shape them with more linedefs.

For a project like your cathedral, having it doom2.exe compatible will severely limit your progress. Use ZDoom to run your map and forget trying to save linedef count. Are you listening?

I'm all ears, just remember that this is my first map so I try to start slowly, by using simple elements, boxes, linedefs...
I.E. : I just understood yesterday how to put a middle texture and a bottom texture together. I'm a damn mapping newbie learning things each day, just balancing with Photoshop skills :D

I'll send in some hours the bench test.
______

Floor looked a little plain, probably needs some carpets or something.

Thanks for the note about , here you are :
http://www.gotik-romanik.de/Metz%20Thumbnails/Photo%209%20by%20%20ulli_hamm_1%20on%20Flickr.html

I didn't yet work on floors, this actual one is "just to fill".
Tainted glass are reputation of this monument so I actually focus on them.
______

A piece of culture about the place and monument :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metz_Cathedral

(Note that outside modeling would be amazing, but will take years, but maybe a DM fight on the roof will be easier to design :D)

As you're new to mapping, that's another reason to forget about all limits. The creation of grand architecture with only a handful of lines is best left to the masters.

For sure, as said previously I may suppose that when I map on Doombuilder there's no real limit, is it ?
-------

Here is first bench test, size is correct during in-game test.
Form looks basic, but it's a bench, so functionnal enough :D
Size : 128x32 / Linedefs : 4

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6892/benches8.jpg

Not yet found the right wood basis, but on the way.
Once textured that'll balance with low quantity of linedefs (and ugly colors).
Left and right dark sides upper part would be partly engraved.
Dark upper backrest would be totally engraved.

iceman57 said:

For sure, as said previously I may suppose that when I map on Doombuilder there's no real limit, is it ?

What? Hadn't you just been saying that you cannot give the map too much deco because of you're "limitations".

For clarity, Doombuilder doesn't REMOVE the limits, the format you are mapping in does.

There's a misundertood :D

For textures :
Yes there's a limitation due to compatibility requirement between versions I and II.
I crossed manually all textures and patches to extract matching ones.
I've almost 30 vertical textures available to cover all the monument.
The actual render shown on screenshots uses 4 textures.

For architecture :
I may suppose there's no limit...
Current Doombuilder configuration set on "Doom", I may suppose that passing it to "Boom" may unlock limits.

iceman57 said:

Current Doombuilder configuration set on "Doom", I may suppose that passing it to "Boom" may unlock limits.

Yeah, but make sure you don't just open up map options and switch it to Boom. The last time I did that it fucked up my map beyond any hopes of fixing it. Copy the entire map, start a new one, this one with a boom configuration, and then just paste it.

Or you make a backup.

Craigs said:

Yeah, but make sure you don't just open up map options and switch it to Boom. The last time I did that it fucked up my map beyond any hopes of fixing it. Copy the entire map, start a new one, this one with a boom configuration, and then just paste it.

Last time I had such "pleasant" feeling was a virus that turn all my HD to a Floppy disk, every file over 50kb gone (almost 3 years of work)... and at this time CD burner for backup were only existing for NASA and other major companies.

So I'll strongly follow both advices :
1. Backup (on a new ## serial name)
2. Copy / Paste in a "Boom" mode

The Boom map format itself is identical to the standard Doom one, only with additional line types and whatnot. Switching between Doom-based and Hexen-based formats would cause problems, but switching between Doom and Boom really shouldn't, as the only thing it's doing is telling DB to give you a different list of line/sector specials and thing types.

Works, no differences on gameplay nor bugs.
Command "Pathtru" appeared on linedefs.

Passthru is a Boom flag that allows multiple line triggers to be triggered through each other, to compensate for a Doom quirk where multiple line triggers placed too close to each other wouldn't be usable. It shouldn't have any negative effects on your map, but if you want to remove it you can just do a Select All in linedefs mode, open up the properties dialog, and uncheck the Passthru flag (leaving everything else alone, so it doesn't get changed as well).

Well, I used the value of "8" as minimum distance between two linedefs while mapping to better catch vertexes.
Once textures set, I zooom to 400% and reduced all distance to "2".
That runs. Can I reach "1" as a minimum distance ?...

To create the 3 round parts on the right part of the monument, do I need to use regular angles like 30°, 45°, 90° ?
Seems that when I draw lines randomly (no idea of angle), Doombuilder has a display problem (weird empty black triangles appearing on ground).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/MetzDB364.jpg/300px-MetzDB364.jpg

Maybe buggy due to the mix of non standard angle from a linedefs to another one, and the close distance of "2" between two drawed sectors ?

EDIT :
I had a look on special 15th anniversary event.
Fortunally, there's no Cacoward for Hokuto :D

hokuto no dick.

this hokuto thing is probably never going to die. after that online argument about hokuto no doom, there was hokuto no iceman57 until this thread popped up.

anyways, those black triangles are just nodes fucking up or something, nothing to worry about really. just a doombuilder thing.

hokuto no cacoward for you.

Yeah, ignore those glitches in 3D mode. It's a Doom Builder bug, and unless there's also something wrong in your map (which would be unrelated to the 3D mode glitches), it should display correctly ingame. You can easily find all this stuff out for yourself, you know, if you just open your map in Doom and take a look at it.

Butts said:

hokuto no dick.

this hokuto thing is probably never going to die. after that online argument about hokuto no doom, there was hokuto no iceman57 until this thread popped up.

anyways, those black triangles are just nodes fucking up or something, nothing to worry about really. just a doombuilder thing.

hokuto no cacoward for you.

Hey, why are you being a jerk? Hokuto no Doom had great sprites. Maybe not as good as Scuba Steve's, but they're still very good, and I'd like to see you try and make something of comparable quality. I don't think you can. Too bad it didn't have any maps. Now that iceman57 is actually making maps, it's a good thing...

Keep up the good work iceman :D

And yeah, don't trust the 3d mode. I never use it, I always hit the "test map" button instead.

Spleen said:

I'd like to see you try and make something of comparable quality. I don't think you can.

No.

Just, no...

Spleen said:

I don't think you can.

lol.

Spleen said:

Hey, why are you being a jerk? Hokuto no Doom had great sprites. Maybe not as good as Scuba Steve's, but they're still very good, and I'd like to see you try and make something of comparable quality. I don't think you can. Too bad it didn't have any maps. Now that iceman57 is actually making maps, it's a good thing...

Keep up the good work iceman :D

And yeah, don't trust the 3d mode. I never use it, I always hit the "test map" button instead.

Motion capture helped a lot, see source pack to get project photographies. Rest is Photoshop.
I won't work on caracters this time, took us 4 months with 4 other teammates to do it and postponed this previous release.

I'll only create some church missing elements (candels, lights, details...).

Concerning 3D mode, I need it to place and align textures pixel per pixel, so it's crucial for me.
Bench design on the way, got the right wood color palette and created engravers, so now just a matter of days. Once set I'll start to duplicate it.

iceman57 said:

Well, I used the value of "8" as minimum distance between two linedefs while mapping to better catch vertexes.
Once textures set, I zooom to 400% and reduced all distance to "2".
That runs. Can I reach "1" as a minimum distance ?...

To create the 3 round parts on the right part of the monument, do I need to use regular angles like 30°, 45°, 90° ?

You can use a grid size of 1 though sometimes it's easier to untick "Snap to Grid".

One way to create those semi-circular sections is to start with a suitable sized 16-sided sector (A), delete seven vertices to turn it into a semi-circle (B), delete three more vertices to create the larger window linedefs (C), rotate as required (D) and drag into place.



Having looked at a hi-res floorplan - the windows appear to be at 45 degree angles.

Really interesting !! I will test this this evening.
(My HI-RES floorplan source is 4000x3000)