TNT 2: Devilution (Texture Pack in OP)

Whoo said:

I'm liking the work with the new Egyptian textures. I had totally forgotten how bad the original ones looked.

Once you get everything tweaked the way you want make sure you check to see if it displays correctly in choco-doom since I see you're currently testing them in a limit-removing port.


Glad you like so far.

And yeah, while these screens are taken in ZDoom at 800x600, I am running everything in Chocolate Doom and Chocorenderlimits also, now that Choom actually runs on my system. Yaay!

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Having just played through your CC4 map an hour or two ago, I really noticed how much you like your fake floors. Used to great effect in that map, and in your map 05 for this project.


Thanks, be prepared to see some more in Map06...

The floating MIDBARS actually look pretty cool now that they've lost their magical levitation powers. :P

Gez said:

Problem with bleeding flats is that they don't work in hardware renderers; which are a thing that exist now.


I'm pretty sure they work in GZDoom, maybe a few other GL ports too. Besides, I don't think maps should have to conform to the rules of ports they aren't even designed for.

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Deadline's extended. Damn, been looking forward to this for quite a bit. Looking so good thus far.

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Processingcontrol said:

I'm pretty sure they work in GZDoom, maybe a few other GL ports too. Besides, I don't think maps should have to conform to the rules of ports they aren't even designed for.


Maps should also use well implented features of port they are designed for, instead of abusing glitches and using crude hacks. If said *port* is vanilla doom and do not have well implented features then blame id and make your map simpler.

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Springy said:

Deadline's extended. Damn, been looking forward to this for quite a bit. Looking so good thus far.


I know right. And yet little action is being taken to ensure that the same people who fell off the face of the earth will still remain off the face of the earth three months from now.

I wasnt just spouting random words. I was demanding a course of action.

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It's a shame that the megawad was not done by September, and I was really looking forward to playing the full version. I hope that it will get released by the end of 2012.

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TheMionicDonut said:

I know right. And yet little action is being taken to ensure that the same people who fell off the face of the earth will still remain off the face of the earth three months from now.

I wasnt just spouting random words. I was demanding a course of action.


There's not much else I can do other than send people monthly or weekly PMs (which I'm going to start doing again soon.)

NiTROACTiVE said:

I hope that it will get released by the end of 2012.


Not likely, as we still need to get MIDI tracks made and assigned to each map.

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Long story short, in spite of everything, this thing will get done. And it will be good.

tl;dr to follow.

Now, a few of my suggestions.

Yeah, for sure deadlines have been missed. Mionic, I agree with you, I think a little more 'hands on' management would be a good thing. Having a clear direction is important, so all the mappers have something to map to. I don't think we need to go as far as Dtwid in terms of how closely we stick to the original tnt format, but some general guidelines might be good.

-How closely must mappers stay true to the original tnt?
-Is this wad going to support deathmatch/coop. This thread touched on that briefly, but it wasn't totally resolved. (I feel this mapset should support all multiplayer and it could quite easily be done with a little effort. Some coop/deathmatch testers, and for some maps, simply pasting a small deathmatch arena off to one side would work well.) Maps such as PC's map 05, which can be broken under coop, could be got around by placing the player 2, 3 and 4 starts in a separate room with an exit switch, effectively bypassing that map for coop.
-Hawkwind and Megamur have been simply awesome as testers, but the other three, with all respect, I haven't seen nor heard anything from them. The core team for this should be regularly engaged in the progress of the project. Maybe those three are doing a great job, but the point is, does anybody know whether they are alive or not?
-Setting a timeline. Say, final deadline: end of the year for all maps done and finalised. And any maps that aren't done by then, mappers must show some good progress, or their slots get reassigned. Then allow 3 months (at least) for MIDI's, thorough testing, compilation, setting the order of the maps etc. This stuff takes time. Having done a lot of music and studio recording, I know it is a wise idea to sit on a project for at least a fortnight after it is totally finished to allow any final *Damn, I knew we forgot something* moments.
-I don't have a problem with deadlines being pushed back (Look at CC4 and it came out brilliant!) And I like id's approach of 'when it's fun and when it's done.' But enforcing/encouraging current deadlines a little doesn't hurt either. For the sake of everyone (myself included) who tried to keep the September deadline, just letting deadlines slip by so easily is a bit of a setback for everyone who made the effort to get their maps in on time.

In the end, I am cool either way. Whoo, you have seen this project through some pretty solid challenges, and I know TNT2 will get done, and it will be good. But a few of these things would make everything smoother I think.

Whoo said:

There's not much else I can do other than send people monthly or weekly PMs (which I'm going to start doing again soon.)


Keeping the OP up to date and regularly updating it is probably more important, so as everyone can see at a glance where things are at. Much easier for you as well, rather than having to PM people individually. :)

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Whoo said:

Not likely, as we still need to get MIDI tracks made and assigned to each map.

Will the music being made for the maps have a similar style as the music used in the original Evilution?

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There was something that CC4 used which had slots pushed off if nothing happened in months. A good amount of delays came from there being people willing and able to map not going for it because "all slots were taken" while said slots were taken by people who left the community or no longer cared about the project. Then they took the "when something is good it gets in, no reservation, so long as quality is there" approach, and that led to the result we know and love.

The rest of the delays came from all the deadlines being soft and everybody knew that. Most people on the project were working close to the deadline, excepting people like gvodisak (map26 dude) who hadnt done anything for months because he hasnt been here for months. All the while somebody could have been working on another map26. Only now are we getting somebody to square one.

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I agree, if anyone failed to meet the September deadline their slot should be up for grabs. I don't think anyone can plead unfairness on that.

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It's not like we would be able to be picked for this year's cacowards anyway, end of 2012/early 2013 doesn't sound like a bad idea. And nobody said things would go smoothly from start to end, things like this are normal.

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I suggest we make a new deadline. Perhaps December 1st or January 1st. And we enforce that deadline, with some give and take, of course. If a mapper has made serious progress by then, enough to warrant a little extra time, and is committed to completing their map, then fine. But if nothing seems to be happening and there is no communication, then that slot will be opened for new mappers.

Things like MIDI tracks can be done concurrently, we don't have to wait until all the maps are done. We probably should have a list of maps 1 - 32 and which ones have MIDI's completed for them.

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For the record, I'm currently "in the market" for a midi in the vein of TNT Map14's music, and yes, I've done a bunch more work since those first screenshots I posted a while back. :P

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I think there should be monthly progress checks where all the mappers have to submit the current version of their maps. If no or little progress is made on someones map after 1 or 2 checks, they lose their claim to their map slot.

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If we're gonna do that, then obligatory progress status update checkup screenshot time!





100

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Damn, that looks as tech and complex as vanilla map under TNT theme can get.

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Mr. Xaser, thanks for posting. For the record, you were never going to be one of those mappers who were under the slightest consideration for being dropped.

And those screens are beautiful.. Radically unique architecture that still maintains that brutal mechanical look that, to me at least, is such a strong theme in the original tnt.

The only tiny nitpick I will make is in screen 5, the RH support beam has its lights cut off, which was quite noticeable to me.

But that is a great looking map.

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Xaser said:

If we're gonna do that, then obligatory progress status update checkup screenshot time!

Oh man, I'm gonna have fun ChocoRenderLimits'ing that one. :)

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After reading all the feedback concerning the delays on the deadlines, I'm deciding to go ahead with everyone's suggestions for kicking out unfinished, inactive map-slots. The OP has been updated with the details.

I set the new deadline to December 15th, so that way people still have two weeks to work in December. Who knows, maybe we'll be able to get a public-beta consisting of just the maps out by Christmas.

Also, is there any word on gvozdevik's map? No offense to him, but since he's enlisted right now we either need to finish what he started or get a new map in.

Xaser said:

*shots*



Those are looking absolutely astounding, and I'm also curious to see how well vanilla copes with the map.

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Whats the policy on arch vile jumps for secrets. I have one in map24 and it only requires 32 vertical units. Do you still want it in. It is also a game breaker if jumping is enabled so I want to be certain that jumping is removed from this wad.

Outside of that, map24 is about 85% done layout wise. Depending on how busy school gets, I may have a finished product by Halloween. Don't hold me to that though.

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TheMionicDonut said:

Whats the policy on arch vile jumps for secrets. I have one in map24 and it only requires 32 vertical units. Do you still want it in. It is also a game breaker if jumping is enabled so I want to be certain that jumping is removed from this wad.


Since it's possible to do it in vanilla you're allowed, and jumping in limit-removing ports is disabled, so there shouldn't be a problem there.

But if it's only 32-units high I can easily see someone rocket-jumping into it.

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Whoo said:

Since it's possible to do it in vanilla you're allowed, and jumping in limit-removing ports is disabled, so there shouldn't be a problem there.

But if it's only 32-units high I can easily see someone rocket-jumping into it.


If its more than 32, it not every port can arch-jump. Oh well. the reward is a megasphere anyway. the whole point is to damage yourself.

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There is an archvile jump in my map 29, which is usable in vanilla. It is designed for speedrunners, and is not required for either the normal completion of the map or for finding all the secrets. But yeah, like whoo said, as long as it remains vanilla compatible, all good.

In regards to the maps: Emzee's two maps (map 01 and map 13) are complete and finalized. I have done a lot of work on them. Emzee's third map, I haven't seen nor heard anything about it. But that one is asterisked anyway, so all good. But just letting you know that the other two are current and up to date.

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Just a quick question whoo.

On the OP, it says that the map 15 slot is open, but I recall that Processing Control, booked the map 15 slot a while back? PC are you still on that map? Possibly the map has been moved to a different slot, but I just needed to check.

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MAP15 is currently occupied by EmZee, but since I haven't heard from him in months (five, to be exact) there is a good chance he'll lose the slot.

Processingcontrol booked MAP06 awhile back, and as far as I know that's the only other map he's working on. But he'll have to post here to confirm that. If he did claim MAP15, then I'll give him it because EmZee hasn't even posted here in months.

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So it's going on six months now since I heard anything from EmZee712. Would anyone object to me removing his unfinished map now (instead of in a few weeks) in favor of someone making a replacement?

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I have little optional suggestion. Instead of throwing all rejected/cut off maps seperately, it can be made into add-on to main megawad for those people who are curious what it could be and isn't. Sort of 'making of' or 'behind the scenes' made between levels of main campaign, but in maps. Alternate route scenario like mission pack.

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I just went and checked through the thread, and yeah ProcessingControl is only doing map 06 as far as I can tell, (whoo you were right). Although there was a period where it went from possibly being in 06 to 15 to 17 to 25.

But that is sorted, it didn't end up in 15 like I thought.

So unless Alter decides he wants his original map 15 back in TNT2, (hey, we can hope, right,) then map 15 should probably be open for takers.

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Whoo said:

Those are looking absolutely astounding, and I'm also curious to see how well vanilla copes with the map.

Meant to post it earlier, but it's all within limits. The only area thus far that's a bit questionable is the tower+bridge spot, but that's only because it's wide n' open n' not quite finished yet. It's well under the limits now, but I'm hoping my plans for it don't push things over the edge. D:

tl;dr: I'm making sure it works. :P

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