TNT 2: Devilution (Texture Pack in OP)

Man, I cant even imagine that, and I myself live in a very very bad situation where my family is often endangered (Main reason why I'm so fucking slow at testing stuff, now people other than Kyka know). No matter bad you have it, someone always is worse off. Hope things go well for all of you.

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Just mentioned this to Kyka, so I guess I should say it here in the dev thread too, but, I discovered my GPU fan has completely died, so no gaming for me until I can fix this, or worst case scenario, be forced to get a loan so I can get a new one.

So please dont send me anything for testing until this is sorted.

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So we got a big update going on.

Over the past week Alter, Xaser, Tarnsman, and I have been going over the maps, making notes and deciding what to do to get the project ready for a good release.

The overarching thing we concluded was that the maps need a lot of polish (general visual and gameplay tweaking) for a good release. Tarnsman pointed out that MAP14 and MAP20 standout in the map set because they're so much better looking visually compared to a lot of the maps.

I'll be sending the mappers feedback that Tarnsman compiled, so either they or someone else can work on problems we noticed with the maps. Tarnsman and Xaser are both offering to polish up maps if the authors want them to.

We also now have empty map slots. We removed a few maps, so we're now looking for more maps. Here are the guidelines from the OP:

- Stick to the theme of the episode. E2 is general techbase and should follow how Evilution treated maps that used its space sky: big and open, with some claustrophobic areas surrounding the larger ones. See Evilution's MAP13 and MAP15 as an example. E3 is a mix of hell and techbase and should follow the same guidelines of E2 regarding its scale.

- DON'T MAKE MAPS EXCESSIVELY LONG. This is a general problem that the current overhaul is trying to correct. Maps should generally not exceed 10 minutes in length.

- Polish your maps. After your map is "done," review it again. Polish it up visually, correct gameplay problems, and generally make it the best you can make it before submission.

- MAKE NON-LINEAR MAPS. Evilution was not a linear mapset. Your maps shouldn't be either. Linear, corridor maps are not something we're looking for.

- DON'T MAKE TASTELESS HOMAGES. If you want to make a certain area a homage to a map in Evilution, feel free to. But don't make your maps just rip-offs of original maps; make original content.


We're looking for as many submissions as possible. We're going to pick the best looking and playing maps. So if you want to make a map, do it and submit it.

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Fellowzdoomer said:

Can I get map29? Wgens the due date?


No one is necessarily going to be able to reserve a map slot. Make a map you want us to consider for that slot.

There isn't a due date, but it's a first-come, first-serve basis. If we get a really good map before yours, we'll still consider it but it all depends on how your map compares to the rest.

EDIT: I should probably add that to the OP.

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C30N9 said:

Whatever happened to the map I sent you like a century ago?


Probably still somewhere on my computer. Send it to me if you still have it.

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W..W..Wait, this high-budget project is actually going to get completely new maps from whoever?

I'm... astounded! :)

...

EDIT: I'm sorry to be this unclear, it just surprised me and I suddenly got a strange urge to try making a TNT map, even though I know I probably lack time and also the skill to fulfil TNT2-ish requirements, not to say I map slow and have other things to do, so it's gonna be nothing. I never paid much attention to TNT2 thread but I've always imagined the project as sophisticatedly managed, and now I see empty mapslots, which got my mind blown, that's all.

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anyone understood what the above guy is implying? o,o

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scifista42 said:

EDIT: I'm sorry to be this unclear, it just surprised me and I suddenly got a strange urge to try making a TNT map, even though I know I probably lack time and also the skill to fulfil TNT2-ish requirements, not to say I map slow and have other things to do, so it's gonna be nothing.


Make a concept layout man and just focus on that and the gameplay and then collab with someone to polish it.

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Well, there goes this year's release. Also feels like half the stuff ive tested is gone :/

Really dissapointed in the disappearance of 29 though, that had the perfect endgame epicness to lead onto 30, even had an exit room crafted around this. Oh well.

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Eris Falling said:

Just checking, no more Wormhold?

...Oh, weak, it's not on the listing anymore, is it? Sorry to waste your time. Again, I beg you to use that song for another project. It's too good to waste. Or maybe the map could be released as a standalone now, with the song included.

Ragnor said:

Well, there goes this year's release. Also feels like half the stuff ive tested is gone :/

Really dissapointed in the disappearance of 29 though, that had the perfect endgame epicness to lead onto 30, even had an exit room crafted around this. Oh well.

What? MAP29 is gone too? Ugh. I put so many hours into testing that.

Coincidentally, I don't think I've ever actually had MAP14 or 20 sent to me for testing, so I can't verify if they look better than all the others.

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So apparently my maps are the only maps that are not good enough for this project. Whoo, did it occur to you to let me know about this?

So all my work is being dumped from this in the name of 'quality', which is bullshit, as they have always been good enough up to this point, and are frankly better than a lot of the maps that are being kept.

At any rate, it is all good. I'll take my work and use it elsewhere. For the record, this project may no longer use any of my work here. This obviously includes all the maps that have been removed, but it also includes several maps that are currently still in the project. I have done the majority of the work on maps 01, 06, 08, 10 and 13. (There are a bunch of others, but whatever.) Feel free to go back to the original authors and use their half finished maps, rather than the ones that I completed and worked on. Or better still, replace those maps also with other maps. Whoo, do not expect to do this shit behind my back and expect me to let you keep any of my work. I trusted you to act in good faith, and you have completely not done that. Good job on not just wasting my work, but countless hours of work from Megamur, Ragnor and Hawkwind too.

Also, I would be looking for a new texture artist for this project, as you may also not use any textures I have made from this point. In short, you can start over. You can retexture every map from scratch.

So this ends here.

And to think, I got trolled for suggesting that certain people were coming in to take over this project. And look what we have here: pretty much what I said.

Good luck with this project. I am sure it will be great.

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And if Kyka and his work are gone, that probably means most of my testing work is toast, too. Hm.... Well, it was good experience for future testing efforts, I guess.

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Wait, what the hell? Now this really looks like an organised attack on Kyka by the evil btsx people.

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DAMN.. I was really looking forward for this.

You guys are sure that this is the right way to lead a big project like that?

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Is there any way we could maybe restore the old maps and try to make amends before this all gets really ugly?

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SFoZ911 said:

DAMN.. I was really looking forward for this.

You guys are sure that this is the right way to lead a big project like that?

I can guarantee you that this is the way to go.

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

So all my work is being dumped from this in the name of 'quality'

For the record, this project may no longer use any of my work here.


I think that's kind of what they're going for here anyway

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

*Stuff*


Okay. This would have happened down the road anyway once we sat down to review the maps like we were planning.

Megamur said:

Is there any way we could maybe restore the old maps and try to make amends before this all gets really ugly?


Don't worry, a bunch of us having been working non-stop on IRC to make this transition as smooth as possible. Get the IRC details in the OP if you want to hang out in the channel.

I also apologize for the time you spent on the now removed maps.

SFoZ911 said:

DAMN.. I was really looking forward for this.

You guys are sure that this is the right way to lead a big project like that?


We've been going over this for a week on IRC and came to the conclusion that a massive overhaul is needed to make the project stand up to expectations.

Memfis said:

^ Not very convincing, any arguments???


Here's a short summary: almost every map in the set needs some kind of polish or reworking. Some maps are too linear, or lack the visual detail that is present in other maps.

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Memfis said:

^ Not very convincing, any arguments???


Well, they got guaranteed Mordeth in some distant cacowards.

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Memfis said:

^ Not very convincing, any arguments???

Having been a project leader for PRCP, and having tested TNT2 maps previously, and having seen the maps in its latest forms, I think I'm in a good position to make that judgement.

Do you want to play maps where the gameplay is a ridiculous long grind and uneventful, or do you want a mapset where polyvocality is taken into account on what makes good gameplay/aesthetics for the benefit of everyone else?

No disrespect to the mappers involved, and I hope their work will see the light of day and that they keep on mapping.

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You idiots and your bloody mind games with each other. I wasted months on perfectly fine maps that got thrown out the window, getting stressed over deadlines and everything, and for what?

This project is fucking cursed, and I'm washing my hands of it

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To be fair, half of tnt is weird and usually boring uneventful crap, so a quality is pretty weird argument for supposed tnt sequel.

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Whoo said:

Okay. This would have happened down the road anyway once we sat down to review the maps like we were planning.


Bullshit. You had nothing planned.

In the three years I have worked on this project, and all the maps I worked on, both my own and others, never once did you sent me any feedback. Not once. If what you are saying now is true, why wouldn't you have mentioned this long before now? In fact, in three years, what exactly have you done on this project? Half finished a couple of your own maps, and gathered a few MIDIs is about all, as far as I can tell. You organised no testing, did no quality control, no feedback, no communication, nothing at all. So in saying what you are saying now, you are literally saying that Hawkwind, Ragnor, Megamur and others can't test maps properly. They did a fine job of testing. It is you who hasn't tested or done anything properly.

Whoo said:
Don't worry, a bunch of us having been working non-stop on IRC to make this transition as smooth as possible.



So finally, this week we start working.

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