Bug in map 21 of newgothic.

You've got 18 maps and I've got 13, let's join forces and steal one random map from gggmork (any of his maps are weird enough to fit map32!) and call our wad SomethingPhmlNewArmouredSpeedGothicBlood, because everyone knows full megawads are inherently awesome.

ArmouredBlood said:

In other news, I finished (not quite tested) renovations on map13. Opinions on the new areas and more restricted main street? And the monster teleports are MUCH better now. Last full iddqd run I had, all the monsters (except 3 cybers that I mislabeled their teleport line as a WR floor raise ... yeah) ported in.
http://www.mediafire.com/?19q2khuzj5lq8j1

Cool. I like the new yellow key tower.

How did you kill the revenants in sectors 2542-4? There's no way to lower the walls around them.

Also I think in the north teleporter the actual teleporter lines are a bit too close to the edge of sector 843. The cyberdemons can't teleport down easily.

The yellow key tower itself, being new, needs a bit of polish I think:

- The first silent line teleporter (line 16431) is a messy transition, the two sides aren't identical enough.

- Why are sectors 2708 etc. damaging me? Is that intentional? There's no apparent visual reason for it, unless I misunderstood the black square on the wall up ahead.

- The crate room (sector 2728 etc.) is all one light level and looks a bit drab as a result

- I think you need a monster blocking line in the doorway to the top floor (e.g. line 23152) because it looks really strange when I run backwards down the stairs to escape a cyberdemon standing at the top of them, only to hit the teleporter linedef 23150 and have it disappear suddenly...

- Finally, if you use the teleporters from the top floor to the two roofs (sectors 425, 431) there's no way to call the lifts down again. Okay there's four lifts so it's pretty hard to run out of them but still. Perhaps you meant to make the numbered panels pressable..?

Oh and the new streets, you've blocked a lot of them off, which means there's lots more dead ends and I can't run around so easily, which I didn't enjoy so much but oh well.

Sorry for endlessly nitpicking your map. I'm sure you're sick of editing it by now...

Phml said:

You've got 18 maps and I've got 13, let's join forces and steal one random map from gggmork (any of his maps are weird enough to fit map32!) and call our wad SomethingPhmlNewArmouredSpeedGothicBlood, because everyone knows full megawads are inherently awesome.

Haha I support this idea :)

Phml said:

You've got 18 maps and I've got 13, let's join forces and steal one random map from gggmork (any of his maps are weird enough to fit map32!) and call our wad SomethingPhmlNewArmouredSpeedGothicBlood, because everyone knows full megawads are inherently awesome.

Heheh, it could work ;p

@rjy: fixed all the gameplay problems (I forgot I idclipped to kill those and then thought I put a linedef to trigger the revs' floor lowering). Not sure what to do about your aesthetic opinion on the crate room but it has shadows now. The elevators have a slight problem with the pass-thru doors sometimes activating the lower floor line on the elevators themselves, but eh, works thematically as if there's a lower floor around. But there isn't a lower floor ... hmm. Blocking off things makes the map a bit more focused, as (I think) phml said in the original thread it got a bit tedious to run from one edge to the other, and I agree. Though it did make a couple dead-ends that could be a problem if you don't have plasma yet.

I have no problem with fixing bugs, just this was supposedly 'released' in October. I should be working on other stuff right now -.-

E: forgot the link again
http://www.mediafire.com/?2u0etsoxbud0fcz

Phml said:

You've got 18 maps and I've got 13, let's join forces and steal one random map from gggmork (any of his maps are weird enough to fit map32!) and call our wad SomethingPhmlNewArmouredSpeedGothicBlood, because everyone knows full megawads are inherently awesome.

Which other WAD are you referring to? I'd like to try yours out, whichever one you're talking about.

This one.

The two sides of the silent line teleport at the top of the lifts are still noticably different (I've brightened this a little)



There's light level differences and texture alignment differences, the latter of which are more apparent if you turn on light goggles.

RjY said:

The two sides of the silent line teleport at the top of the lifts are still noticably different (I've brightened this a little)

There's light level differences and texture alignment differences, the latter of which are more apparent if you turn on light goggles.

Fixed. Anything else for this map or others?
http://www.mediafire.com/?54msapgc92zfm8p

Looking at the new Map13, I don't understand how do the teleporters work. No merged sectors or anything that I can see? These teleporters seem to never start if you don't fire in the main area right around the start. I've played for five minutes and picked up the two blue keys and one red key while shooting willy-nilly in sectors 162, 805, and other indoors areas, and it didn't trigger the teleporters. As soon as I shoot in the "main" area (i.e. sector 1), they start working, but not until then.

Edit :

Here's a max attempt, half-FDA of course as I didn't know the new parts (and damn, that cybie ambush after the stairs almost got me :) ).

First, if this is what we can expect from UAC Ultra 2, I can't wait. The new areas look really neat, polished, it almost feels like out of place in that map as it really shows how much you've improved in terms of aesthetics. The new fights were alright, I liked the use of berserk pack to force a weapon switch for an ambush (though, being fond of that trick myself, I knew *something* would be coming and I didn't wait for a second to dodge and switch back to BFG ;) ).

Some places were a bit dark in anything but gamma level 4 in GLBoom+ (I'm playing with level 2-3 now).

I used IDDTx2 near the end, to find the final secret and remaining monsters ; and finally when all else failed, I used PrBoom+'s "show monsters alive" feature. It seems 2 zombiemen in sector 430 never get to see the player and don't move in a position where the player can shoot them. Other than that, I didn't see any bug.

The gameplay was great and by blocking some of the streets you've addressed my initial complaints about the map (lack of focus, wandering around). Now the meat of the fights take part on the huge horizontal axis and I feel it's a lot better that way. Trying hard for a max would probably be interesting, trying to optimize infighting while riding elevators up to parts like sector 132 and sector 253.

All in all I think it's great now, all you need to do is to fix the zombiemen and as far as I can tell there's no problem left with that map.

I notice that on crossing some of the indoor linedefs the sky glitches into view for a second, maybe the sound doesn't cross these glitched areas? possibly the sector height is too much? Think it's time for some googling.

I'd like to understand how do the teleports work at all. Shouldn't there be merged sectors for monsters to hear the player at all, seeing as their sectors aren't connected at all to the playing area?

Sectors 0, 1877, and 2257 are merged with the front right corner of 3 cars right in front of the start. These connect the top, bottom, and right boxes, respectively. I have no idea if sector 0 being used like this affects anything. The top and bottom each have about 125 boxes merged, the right about 40ish.

Ohh, I get it now. I didn't see those tiny merged sectors inside. :)

I also just noticed you've got block sound lines in several linedefs leading to the inside rooms, so that would explain it I think.

Oh yeah, those zombies in sector 433. They're too far back from a high ledge above a thin alleyway or something, so you can never walk into a position where you can alert them. I mean, they're facing the wall. And they're deaf. It's no wonder they never wake up :)

Actually that's probably the best fix - give all the zombies in sector 433 their hearing back.

ArmouredBlood said:

I notice that on crossing some of the indoor linedefs the sky glitches into view for a second, maybe the sound doesn't cross these glitched areas? possibly the sector height is too much? Think it's time for some googling.

In those places the player is walking over a linedef between two sectors of insanely different floor or ceiling heights. I've never really figured out what the exact limit is but it causes some calculation in the renderer to overflow. It's a purely visual engine bug, doesn't affect gameplay, but not something you can really do anything about (well except for lowering your ceilings, but it's not worth it, when one day we might fix the engine properly. It's better than it was though - there was a time when such linedefs used to cause the game to freeze completely...)

I'd also like to echo Phml's comment about how much you've improved as a mapper. I remember Shai'tan's Luck and you almost wouldn't know they were by the same guy. Keep up the good work.

De-deafed the former humans. Didn't notice phml's edit until I saw rjy's post. Yeah I'm thinking 40oz and I can put something really cool together. Hope he has time over winter break to do some mapping. Thanks for the positive encouragement from both you and rjy, that + an A in one of my harder classes this semester = feels good man ;)

Bout the demo, I was rofling (not literally, sorry ;p) when you manipulated the cyber onto the lift at about 14 minutes in, then every time I saw him on the building edge after that. Also I see you're picking up on some secret-finding techniques in the yellow key tower, too bad I didn't put any in there. Was thinking about putting a secret at the bottom of the lifts but didn't want to mess with all the vertices between them -.-

So yeah, looking basically done. Gonna upload it friday if no one finds any more bugs (I'd say things to polish, but if I asked that I'd be working on it past doomsday 2012, heheh).

Last chance for bug reports before I upload the fix to /newstuff tomorrow. Almooooost over with ...

Bugfixes uploaded to /incoming, will (hopefully) be on the archives in a couple days. I hope that's it then, heh.

A'right epic bump
Just played through whole map 21.

HOLY SHIT!!!1! This map tops par time of almost everything created so far, including jadearth. Heavy save state usage and completed in hour and 25 minutes.

Well before exiting I had to check missing secrets and monsters. One cyber didn't teleport into action. He remained inside his starting position, in a room outside map (the ones to the left of main area, in the bottom, close to chainers, hks and revs teleporting rooms).
Also missed one secret which I can't find a way to trigger. I clipped into it and there was blue armor, backpack and some ammo,(close to starting position) but no clue how to get there. If getting to activate it has something to do with the stuck cyber, then never mind.

EDIT: nvm, didn't notice it was already poined out

j4rio: (is your name "jerio" or "jay four rio"?)

and the cyberdemon teleports out fine in this version, dated 2010-12-14 13:20:14 +0000, size 28633220, md5 c773e2e80ceccaa924701494bab0f2c5.

Thanks! I don't find it weird anymore that I couldn't find it, heh. I guess I'll just try to max it right away then.

RjY said:
j4rio: (is your name "jerio" or "jay four rio"?)

I'll let you wonder ;p