Brutal Doom version 18a

scalliano said:

You use DVD's to wipe your arse? That's an expensive personal hygiene solution.

only when I do not approve of their content

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mrthejoshmon said:

only when I do not approve of their content


A real angry reviewer cliché.

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buttspit said:

A real angry reviewer cliché.

I have nothing against Brutal doom, just the discussion about race that formed in the forum!

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VylePhinder said:

I am a fan of BD, and I must say that those who claim the blood is unrealistic... well, that's probably not too true. It may be over the top for a video game, but realistically speaking, I'm sure a small metal object travelling at, roughly, 6,000 mph (using M16 as a base reference), going through a former human's face, would create quite a blood spatter. More than most would probably imagine, and probably more than even Brutal Doom illustrates, I would guess.


I am a fan of BD too, however, I disagree. The blood and gore in BD is really exaggerated. Not to say that that is bad. In most games, the blood and the gore is way over done. In real life, when people get shot, blood doesn't spurt out of them like geysers. There may be a mist of blood that sprays out of the exit wound, but nothing like what is in BD. In real life, when people get shot, they simply fall over and blood slowly oozes out of them and forms a pool around them. They don't get sent flying back. The reason people jump when they get shot is because their nervous system is reacting to the impact of the bullet, kind of like when you poke someone with a needle, they jump. The force behind the bullet doesn't send people flying.

I am not saying that all the gore in BD is totally unrealistic. Guns really can blow off limbs and take off heads if the bullet is big enough. Many vet snipers who used the barret .50 cal in Iraq and Afghanistan said that when they shot their enemies with that weapon, the enemy simply turned into a pink mist and left a big blood splat on the wall. However, apart from that, most of the rest of BD is really exaggerated. Especially the amount of blood that spurts of the monsters is really exaggerated.

BD shouldn't be aiming for realism anyway. It should be aiming for entertainment. We have games like ARMA 2 for realism.

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ellmo said:

People who think mods are there to change custom titles, answer all questions and pay all maintenance costs look even more silly.


Actually, I disagree. Not more silly, anyway.

The thing that we all have to remember is, this is just a forum, whether you are a moderator or not. That having been said, they DO, like it or not, have the ability to ban, edit, or otherwise "moderate" posts therein.

My point, though, is that they are not beyond community criticism and even the most powerful dictator has to have "some" on their side, lest they by lynched :)

In any case, I have come to the personal decision that being "who I am" is worth more to me than these forums will, ever. In other words, I am not out to get any moderator, nor do I have an irresistible urge to be rebellious to all authority figures (assuming that one views moderators that way, in the first place), but I will not walk on egg-shells here, or anywhere. For the last 19 years, I have enjoyed playing Doom and all its community has to offer without giving one thought to these forums (or even Doomworld for that matter). It will not hurt my feelings at all to do this for another 19 years.

In my opinion, if you're a moderator, super or otherwise, let trolls post their bull crap, and let the others in the community pick them apart for their stupidity, and if they don't, maybe their claims hold some legitimacy?

And to Doom_is_Great:

Yeah, you're probably right, in all honesty, I have never, and hope to never, shoot anyone, so I have no first-hand experience on just how realistic blood spatter would be in those given circumstances, but I was, in my former post, only speaking of the blood spatter as being more realistic than most people probably thought. Some of the other effects in BD are surely exaggerated from a realistic perspective. I think you would need more than a shotgun (maybe a rocket launcher?) to send people flying, yards back.

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Even if humans really did burst into gigantic geysers of blood every time they did get shot, Brutal Doom would still be unrealistic as the monsters have about three times their mass in gore to spew out whenever they die. (I consider this a positive.)

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VylePhinder said:

My point, though, is that they are not beyond community criticism and even the most powerful dictator has to have "some" on their side, lest they by lynched :)

You mistake a private-owned forum for a democracy.

But you nasically say that it's normal to expect that mods are here to serve, but not to protect and enforce any laws?

If mods weren't scrupulate and hard on forum users, the entire community would go apeshit (also known as 4chan /b/) before you can say "blueberry pancakes", just becasue it can and it costs nothing. Rules are neccessary, as well as people who enforce them. They created this forum in the first place, they have every right to make the rules.

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There sure is an awful lot of backseat moderation going on in this thread.

VylePhinder, if you and Mr. Chris would like to discuss how the Doomworld forums ought to be run, I would advise creating a thread in the Blogs subforum or contacting an administrator directly. It sure as hell isn't on-topic here.

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ellmo said:

If mods weren't scrupulate and hard on forum users, the entire community would go apeshit (also known as 4chan /b/) before you can say "blueberry pancakes", just becasue it can and it costs nothing. Rules are neccessary, as well as people who enforce them. They created this forum in the first place, they have every right to make the rules.


Oh, that's very true, they have every right to make the rules, whether we like or not. So you're definitely right there, my point though, is that they can't (actually 'shouldn't' is a better word, because they most certainly can...) go around banning/losering every one that show's the first sign of breaking the rules, as this lowers the population of the DoomWorld community. What's wrong with simply doling out suspensions like every other community driven sight (yes, 'every' is an exaggeration)?

If I were losered, I wouldn't even try to get out. I would just think 'heh, it was kind of neat for a while...' and just go on playing Doom without ever signing in again, like I always have, save for this (and a small part of the last) year.

Calling it 'losering' is humiliating and, in my opinion, actually counterproductive to the purpose of growing in site audience. Assuming that this is, indeed, one of DoomWorld's objectives, calling it a formal suspension makes much more 'business-sense'. And as for 'banning', I guess it should exist but only exercised when an individual is really not worth the trouble.

(I guess 'worth it' would be estimated based off of a single user's number of visits to the sight (i.e., the number of ads they see) and how that reflects on the value of potential ad-space buyers VS. the man-hours you lose in moderators trying to enforce the rules or otherwise trying to counter-correct the user's counter-productiveness).

------------EDIT--------------------

esselfortium said:

There sure is an awful lot of backseat moderation going on in this thread.

VylePhinder, if you and Mr. Chris would like to discuss how the Doomworld forums ought to be run, I would advise creating a thread in the Blogs subforum or contacting an administrator directly. It sure as hell isn't on-topic here.


Sorry, I was writing this when you posted this. Sorry, I am not trying to back-seat moderate, I just enjoy discussing my 2 cents, sometimes. But it is off-topic. Should I delete this?

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I'm disappointed, esselfortium.

See you soon, provided DW has some sense, Mark.

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gemini09 said:

I'm disappointed, esselfortium.

Not disappointed in Mark, though. Go right on dropping racist remarks in your program comments!

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Captain Ventris said:

Not disappointed in Mark, though. Go right on dropping racist remarks in your program comments!


that's also true. That wasn't very cool, MARKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

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gemini09 said:

I'm disappointed, esselfortium.

See you soon, provided DW has some sense, Mark.

It bears repeating that I didn't loser Mark and that I have hardly posted at all in this thread.

It also bears repeating, though, that Grazza warned him very directly of what would happen if he kept on doing what he was doing in here, so the losering shouldn't be any sort of surprise.

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I read your posts, and Mark's replies [that I read] were very rational and civilized. I think your criticism bordered well on over to harassment. As Mark pointed out, that's hardly an appropriate attitude for a moderator. I'm with Mark on this one. I didn't read Grazza's interaction with Mark, but I don't find it unlikely that fellow mods here may prove biased at time.

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Obsidian said:

It wasn't that racist. :/

Unironically using a racial slur is what I'd call Pretty Darn Racist.

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The noise in this thread woke me up from my lurking.

And I like lurking so everyone SHUT THE FUCK UP.

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While I believe that playing the racist thing up only serves to help insinuate that races are all "different" (this is a bad thing), the comment was, however, pretty darn racist...

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I had no idea we had so many bona fide race-relations specialists on here. You learn something new every day!

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Gifty said:

I had no idea we had so many bona fide race-relations specialists on here. You learn something new every day!

Nah, just people with some concept of humanity.

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Gifty said:

I had no idea we had so many bona fide race-relations specialists on here. You learn something new every day!


Well, I'm sure this isn't a concept you're used to, but when you care about people other than yourself, you want to make the world a little bit better of a place, if you even can, at all.

One of the ways this comes out is when a community comes together and recognizes that something (racism) is inherently not good for anyone...

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Ok, now I am back in business. This discussion is not going to lead anywhere, so let's just move on and get back to the main subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Jr2qCO1Qs

v18 is officially coming on Feb 14. Many people will enjoy the new balance, that makes some megawads such as Speed of Doom and Scytche 2 playable on Hurt Me Plenty difficulty. Players that wants a harder gameplay to play easy wads such as Ultimate Doom, TVR, and others, will have new difficulty levels that can restore the damage levels to near what it was before.
Also, the former 20% speed reduce is also removed. The player will have the same speed as in Vanilla Doom.

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Sounds good to me, what sort of nerfing do the hitscanners get?

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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Also, the former 20% speed reduce is also removed. The player will have the same speed as in Vanilla Doom.


Good news indeed. Any chance on making the revenant-launcher fireballs any faster? Because as you have them not only do they move real slowly but they rarely (if at all) lock onto targets. This is with the ZDoom version.

I messed with the code a while back, and turned them into a duke devastator like weapon, but I'm not sure if that's what you want.

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I can't say for the speed of the missiles, but I asked Mark on FB if there was a way for them to home in on enemies efficiently. He stated that there are some limitations at the moment with the engine, but that it's possible for the missiles to lock on when you fire at the exact moment you fire them.

Unfortunately, I tried several times, with and without crosshairs, without success.

Hopefully, this can be addressed at a future date, because they would make excellent weapons for attacking cacodemons, and even zombies if the dodge mechanic is implemented.

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Blue Shadow said:

If there is something I hate, is over-praise. Not just in this particular case. No. I hate it in general. And this is another thing that irritates me about Brutal Doom and (some of) its fanbase. They actually think - No, they believe that these mods/TCs are worthless and are a waste of time to play on their own, and somehow Brutal Doom with its "glory" makes them worthwhile again.

Seriously?!...


Woah there buddy. I didn't say the TC's are worthless on their own so please, don't assume something so ridiculous. I recently spent 2 years on and off making my own 20 level Doom 2 mod, so I'd never suggest something so ridiculous. It's no secret that Brutal Doom is really popular on Zandronum and it could give these mods attention for the first time to some of our younger Doomers, so lay off.

Blue Shadow said:

I don't see it work, honestly. I mean, Chex Quest is like a non-violent version of Doom. Enemies don't die when you kill them. They get teleported to their home planet or somesuch, instead (as far as I'm aware).


It would just be funny and awesome. It's not gory now, but with Brutal Doom on it would be.

Would Nashgore be something to your liking? I'm using it in one of my mods and it doesn't come with new sprites or anything. Just makes things more... gorier. I'm surprised that's actually a word, heh.


I will need to check this one out, I've never heard of it but it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for!

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vinnie245 said:

Holy fucking shit what happened to the doom coomunity, yeah the outcry about the racism is fair enough but to then start complaining about the violence, a mod for the fucking videogame Doom which along with Mortal Kombat started the gore train to the mainstream in the FIRST PLACE!?!

I've seen far worse gore in so many games since then (Soldier of Fortune, Kingpin, Gears of War, newest Mortal Kombat, Manhunt)
When people start complaining about the gore of a mod for DOOM then you know the worlds gone too PC.


damn right!!

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Doomkid92 said:

Woah there buddy. I didn't say the TC's are worthless on their own so please, don't assume something so ridiculous. I recently spent 2 years on and off making my own 20 level Doom 2 mod, so I'd never suggest something so ridiculous. It's no secret that Brutal Doom is really popular on Zandronum and it could give these mods attention for the first time to some of our younger Doomers, so lay off!


His post wasn't directed solely at you even though he quoted you. It just reflects a trend of people who will only play Doom when it's been "enhanced". These people are hardly the target audience for new megaWADs and mapsets, though. Their laughable reactions when it comes to mod incompatibilities (like refusing to dip below UV when working with BD while complaining about the combat) only serves to underscore their lack of critical thinking.

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