I wonder, how much overlap is there in resources between Heretic and Hexen? Like, do they share some textures and sprites?

Well, looks like a few things at least:
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Crystal_vial

I'm not sure about the textures though. Maybe enough can be copied from Blasphemer that the IWAD isn't totally empty. :P

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I agree. I actually also had this idea.

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It might be best to finish the free IWAD projects currently in progress (like Ultimate Freedoom, FreeDM, and Blasphemer) before starting another one.

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Current projects will never be finished.
Holding bad on a new project will never get more people to work on them.

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I agree with what wesleyjohnson said. So, anyone up for starting work on it?

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Cire said:

I agree with what wesleyjohnson said. So, anyone up for starting work on it?


I do not agree with what wesleyjohnson said. If they will never get completed, whats the point of doing a hexen based project of the same type? It'll just have the same fate as all the others.

Why not just aid the projects that are already going? I haven't been following the freedoom stuff lately, but I'm pretty sure Blasphemer needs new management.

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You never know, it might attract some die-hard Hexen freaks who otherwise wouldn't have contributed. And just as Blasphemer can benefit FreeHexen, the reverse is also true since they share resources and (officially) some background story.

There is also stuff like the Korax mod, that might attract RPG players or fantasy freaks, who may find the IWAD to be a good foundation for their own custom RPG.

Btw, I don't use "freak" as a derogatory term here. It also means someone passionate/crazy about something.

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Agreed, hex11. Basically just making an IWAD with stuff borrowed from Blasphemer and other placeholder resources would get the ball rolling and shouldn't be to much work for someone with decent knowledge of how the Hexen IWAD is structured, which I think some people here have. I would do it myself, but unfortunatly I lack the technical know-how of WAD editing.

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It is like every hardware and software project I have worked on. They do not get finished (according to the engineers and programmers). They run out of money, time, patience.. They get shipped to the customer however, and many get used. (Some got improved to the point they do not work anymore.)

We play these wads, before they are finished.
Do better than blasphemer and put in some playable sprites at the start. They do not have to be great sprites, just have all the frames, and some differentiation.
Create a theme and put in place-holders for all the levels.
Make sure it is correct enough to play on some Hexen port.

Borrow as little as possible, it is too hard to identify later.
Stuff can be marked as temp place-holders in subtle ways.

An easier target to measure is "complete" (FreeDoom is close, some sprites still have placeholder square boxes).

(Has anyone noticed that "ir-regard-less" gets bleeped in these posts. Try to use it without the hyphens, it gets replaced by ********* )

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wesleyjohnson said:

(Has anyone noticed that "ir-regard-less" gets bleeped in these posts. Try to use it without the hyphens, it gets replaced by ********* )

Maybe that has something to do with the fact that it's not a real word, or is at best an irritatingly prole-tastic nonstandard word that makes one look like a moron.

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Also, it's a double-negation. Regardless means without regard, adding ir- in front makes it mean "not without regard". Which is generally not what the people using it actually wanted to say.

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if a free hexen iwad were to be made, which is a good idea considering all the advanced features in hexen (im pretty sure not even intermission texts are in the executable and ACS), that it should attempt to be vanilla compatible. just saying though

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I honestly don't see the point. What's next, FreeStrife?

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FreeStrife would be justified in that this game is no longer distributed in any way; whereas Doom, Heretic and Hexen are still sold (and quite cheaply) on Id's online store and on Steam.

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Whatever happened with the Strife ownership investigation anyway? Did you find out anything?

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We play these wads, irregard if they are finished.

I'll try that to see if it is more acceptable, except that the spell checker on this site will accept ************, but red underlines irregard.

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Hehe, a forum software with built-in grammar checking. Gotta love it. :P

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I support the idea of a Freestrife also.

wesleyjohnson: Those placeholder square boxes where omited from the build script recently, so Freedoom's sprites are actually complete (although some monsters might be up for replacement). What Freedoom is more in need of are maps, sounds and music.

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Cire said:

Freedoom's sprites are actually complete (although some monsters might be up for replacement).

Unless I missed something, there are still a number of unfinished sprites for several monsters, most noticably the semen monster's attack frames.

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Heretic & Hexen have less PWADs for sure, but apparently there are folks out there who love them to bits. The fact that Blasphemer even got as far as it did is a testament to that (otherwise it'd just be an empty repository). There are also new PWADs and mods coming out even today, so it's unfair to look at those games and dismiss them out of hand simply because they're not as popular as the greatest FPS of all time. ;)

Anyway, "FreeHexen" or Blasphemer aren't projects that you must feel obligated to work on. Anyone who feels they're a waste of time (and that's their right) can simply choose to not partake in them.

You can actually apply similar logic to Doom itself, given the great number of source ports in existence today. Some try to remain faithful to the original (Chocolate Doom), some try to push the boundaries (ZDoom, EDGE, etc.) and others have a more middle-ground approach (Doom+, PrBoom, Odamex). But they are all equally valid, and can only be judged based on personal preferences. Would the Doom community be better off if there was only one single port?

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*See first post for latest revision*
I started work on a Freehexen. It's a PWAD with files copied from Blasphemer that overlap between Hexen and Heretic. I also added empty lumps for MAP01, MAP40 and WINNOWR to get ZDoom to identify it as Hexen and start. Please give your thoughts on this WAD, tell me if I missed any lumps from Blasphemer as I did this manually today. If you have any material to submit I would be happy to add them to the WAD.

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Oh, well good luck on it. We were thinking of creating one after Blasphemer if there are any spare resources. Hope all goes well and yes I always wondered why there wasn't a free Hexen version. If we have any spare resources (I'm sure we probably will) I'll give you some to use.

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I've thought that it could be neat to make Blasphemer (once completed for Heretic) also work for Hexen too. Other than some minotaur frames, there is no incompatibility between the resources. The palettes are quite different, though, but Blasphemer's palette will already screw up some custom textures in Heretic mods, so at this point there's no need to worry about mod compatibility.

Basically, in Heretic mod it'd play ExMx maps, and in Hexen mode it'd play MAPxx maps.

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Gez said:

I've thought that it could be neat to make Blasphemer (once completed for Heretic) also work for Hexen too. Other than some minotaur frames, there is no incompatibility between the resources. The palettes are quite different, though, but Blasphemer's palette will already screw up some custom textures in Heretic mods, so at this point there's no need to worry about mod compatibility.

Basically, in Heretic mod it'd play ExMx maps, and in Hexen mode it'd play MAPxx maps.

Yeah would be nice. I'm glad Cire's taken to getting a free Hexen IWAD started. We were thinking about making a Hexen IWAD (free version of course) after Heretic because Blox mentioned that it would be pretty neat to do so. I'll be keeping my eye on this one and hopefully be able to offer help if he needs it.

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Thanks for reminding me of the Minotaur sprites Gez, forgot about those, will add them to the PWAD. EDIT: Something strange with Blasphemer, it doesn't seem to have as many Minotaur sprites as Heretic, and they're named differently. What's up with that?

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Would it be legally acceptable to use anything from Hexen itself? Can basic things like the palette be considered copyrightable?

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Basically, no to the first, yes to the second.

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Cire said:

Something strange with Blasphemer, it doesn't seem to have as many Minotaur sprites as Heretic, and they're named differently. What's up with that?

Looks like they're placeholders.

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