[WIP] The Shores of Zdoom (Oct 13: new pictures on page 6)

DoomHero85 said:

How about a cyberdemon 2x the size of the normal one with two heads and 4 launchers/arms. That would scare the crap out of anyone. At least 4x hp as well. Have a few normal cybers as minions.


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Yeah, that big thing at the end looked kinda cheesy. Of course now that I mentioned that cyberdemon thing, it probably won't happen, and I didn't mean just scale up the sprite, i meant actually draw out a larger cyberdemon so that it is still detailed. But that monster is interesting in the above shot, what's it from?

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@Foodles: WTF, that not only complies with DoomHero85's suggestion, but it also looks a LOT like the KDiZD Deimos Guardian...

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Cool, E2 is my personal favorite, but ease on the Hexen-style puzzles.

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Okay a serious post now. I hope you guys put a lot of exploration in this as it's one of the reasons EP2 is so awesome.

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This looks incredible, the second shot in particular looks very visually appealing. I have a few questions -

- One thing KDIZD managed to do successfully was make areas look realistic and as if they served a purpose, while still retaining the abstract level design of the classic episode. Will this be done in TSOZD as well?
- I like the idea mentioned earlier of having more base hell-growth ie E1M8. I remember one of my favorite small parts of KDIZD was the haunting music that would play whenever you got close to a hellish part of the base. (ex - the north-most room in Z1M6). It'd be cool to see this expanded upon
- Have all the non-secret maps been started yet or are there still some that have yet to be made. I'm guessing E2M5 is one of those as there are no shots of it yet.
- Will there be easter eggs/hidden rooms like in KDIZD?

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pizzabob18 said:

- I like the idea mentioned earlier of having more base hell-growth ie E1M8. I remember one of my favorite small parts of KDIZD was the haunting music that would play whenever you got close to a hellish part of the base. It'd be cool to see this expanded upon


Why is this suddenly a new idea? This is what happened in the original E2.

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I probably should have phrased that better.

I was referring to specifically the transformations that happen as you progress in Z1M8, (vines/flesh gradually covering the walls) . While the idea of hell taking over a base has already been implemented in the classic E2, I was curious about how it would be further developed or which direction - horror/hellish, this would take the levels.

For example, in E2m4, there are many rooms such as the vine covered room in the north/center, and even the room with deep red texture in the northwest that appear to have been transformed as a result of the invasion. Seeing how many people, myself included, consider the original Deimos Labs to be a pretty chilling level, I'm curious to see how this tech base transformation will play out in its Z2M4 equivalent.

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Well yeah, but I figured that would be the way they'd implement it. Z1M8 style...I can't really think of any other way of doing it.

Also will TZoZD include the rifle? I fucking loved that thing.

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We're not sure yet about the rifle. One possibility is that it might be included in a modified form that makes it a liiiiiiiiiiitttle bit less absurdly powerful. >_>

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Could you guys perhaps use the 0.5 rifle instead? That one looked a lot better. I even have some okay looking recoil frames for it. (better than the terrible looking sprite zooming in like KDiZD, seriously, it looked cheap)

Also, seeing as episode 2 contained many key levels from the original Tei Tenga scenario, perhaps you could get the rifle earlier on as a side arm instead of a powerful weapon? Perhaps it could even have a secondary fire being a quick swipe with the bayonet.


EDIT: I'm making a quick little example WAD right now to show how I think the rifle should be. I'll upload it later.

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pizzabob18 said:

I was referring to specifically the transformations that happen as you progress in Z1M8, (vines/flesh gradually covering the walls) . While the idea of hell taking over a base has already been implemented in the classic E2, I was curious about how it would be further developed or which direction - horror/hellish, this would take the levels.


I always wanted to do a Deimos level where the base just felt like a living entity. Rooms would shift around you--you'd leave an area, then when you came back, a room attached to that area is now gone, or possibly moved to a different location altogether. You'd hear horrible sounds of rumbling and grinding metal in other rooms as the base contorts into new shapes while you're not looking. It'd possibly even start ripping itself apart, with walls uncontrollably tearing open before your eyes, or flesh or metal simply growing out of the floor, into twisted spires of...weird-looking stuff.

I'm just not sure how capable ZDoom is of doing this sort of thing.

And yes, anybody on the TSoZD team is free to steal those ideas if they sound interesting. :)

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Megamur said:

I always wanted to do a Deimos level where the base just felt like a living entity. Rooms would shift around you--you'd leave an area, then when you came back, a room attached to that area is now gone, or possibly moved to a different location altogether. You'd hear horrible sounds of rumbling and grinding metal in other rooms as the base contorts into new shapes while you're not looking. It'd possibly even start ripping itself apart, with walls uncontrollably tearing open before your eyes, or flesh or metal simply growing out of the floor, into twisted spires of...weird-looking stuff.

I'm just not sure how capable ZDoom is of doing this sort of thing.

And yes, anybody on the TSoZD team is free to steal those ideas if they sound interesting. :)


I doubt that's possible in Zdoom, but damn I would LOVE to see that in Doom 4.

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esselfortium said:

We're not sure yet about the rifle. One possibility is that it might be included in a modified form that makes it a liiiiiiiiiiitttle bit less absurdly powerful. >_>

I did rebalance it quite a bit for the R667 Armory version, into more of a useful weapon and less of a game-breaker.

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Marnetmar said:

Why is this suddenly a new idea? This is what happened in the original E2.


Indeed, the original E2 was a base being corrupted by Hell, but what I was talking about was an animated corruption of the map while you were playing it, like as mentioned E1M8 of KDIZD; I had forgot that map did that.

EDIT: Whoops didn't realize there was a second page of replies :p

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Will there still be six (or more) keys? Unlike other users, I liked that feature, it made the maps seem longer. How will you cope with the fact that original E2M5 has no keys and that a couple of levels use skulls? Will you create 3 more skulls and 3 more cards so there'll be six for each?

esselfortium said:

We're not sure yet about the rifle. One possibility is that it might be included in a modified form that makes it a liiiiiiiiiiitttle bit less absurdly powerful. >_>

Well, the BFG9000 slot is still free to use for another gun, right? But what about the grenade launcher now? Will the SSG be there (just like in KDiZD, slightly slower than the Doom 2 one)?

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We haven't decided on anything particular concerning the weapons yet.
I'm pretty sure at least the KDiZD SSG will make an appearance again though.

Concerning the keys:
We thought about adding more keys, but since E2 already uses the 3 cards and the 3 skulls, we thought it'd be more than enough. So no; there propably won't be any additional keys!

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I have a question, since KDiZD used rotated sprites for the pickups, why not use voxels in TSoZD since ZDoom supports them now?

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Vader said:

Concerning the keys:
We thought about adding more keys, but since E2 already uses the 3 cards and the 3 skulls, we thought it'd be more than enough. So no; there propably won't be any additional keys!

Yes, but for some of the less creepy maps (such as Containment Area) the skulls wouldn't fit so well...

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Megamur said:

I always wanted to do a Deimos level where the base just felt like a living entity. Rooms would shift around you--you'd leave an area, then when you came back, a room attached to that area is now gone, or possibly moved to a different location altogether. You'd hear horrible sounds of rumbling and grinding metal in other rooms as the base contorts into new shapes while you're not looking. It'd possibly even start ripping itself apart, with walls uncontrollably tearing open before your eyes, or flesh or metal simply growing out of the floor, into twisted spires of...weird-looking stuff.

I'm just not sure how capable ZDoom is of doing this sort of thing.

And yes, anybody on the TSoZD team is free to steal those ideas if they sound interesting. :)

Hmm... now I want to see if that's possible with Eternity portals and a shitload of scripting.

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@Megamur: Maybe write an email to Carmack about putting that stuff in Doom 4 :)

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DoomHero85 said:

@Megamur: Maybe write an email to Carmack about putting that stuff in Doom 4 :)


I don't think Carmack has much say in the game itself. Tim Willits might be the person to contact, assuming he's made his email address public.

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I'm curious how Z2M5 would look like, because that's the only level I've not seen any pictures from yet.

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Sodaholic said:

I have a question, since KDiZD used rotated sprites for the pickups, why not use voxels in TSoZD since ZDoom supports them now?

I think it's a bad idea.

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I hope you decide to make the secret map more than just 2 big rooms, however well detailed they might be

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Foodles said:

I hope you decide to make the secret map more than just 2 big rooms, however well detailed they might be


I'm pretty sure they will. Look what they did with E1M1 for christ's sake.

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