Slaughterfest 2012 - NEW Final Final Version is up

Nevan said:

Ribbiks, I load Anathema v3 in my PRBoom with the SF2011-V8 texture .wad and I still get missing textures. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but someone correct me if I am.


requires cc4-tex

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Have yet another demo. Around 50 minutes, gets YK. The only thing I noticed is that secret which is probably over-the-top in goodies it offers, as in a megasphere and 4 telefragged cybers. I'd probably ditch either that megasphere or cyberfraggerie. There may have happenned more stuff I forgot.

I guess I'll focus on different key section next time.

http://filesmelt.com/dl/shith3.lmp

(The benefit of these endless maps is that authors get hours of most likely tedious to watch attempts and can't even speed it up in prb+ much because it's so huge that speeding up is barely notable)

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j4rio said:

The only thing I noticed is that secret which is probably over-the-top in goodies it offers, as in a megasphere and 4 telefragged cybers. I'd probably ditch either that megasphere or cyberfraggerie.


I was thinking that as well. I'll nix the sphere


That was fun. clever infighting in the room with the big circle things. also you were making me nervous with those cybs en route to the YK room -.-


(The benefit of these endless maps is that authors get hours of most likely tedious to watch attempts and can't even speed it up in prb+ much because it's so huge that speeding up is barely notable)


my potato laptop can barely handle it at 100% :p


also just for fun here's a demo that gets all the way to the BK room, then I die like a jackass because I played embarassingly badly.

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I'm going to try some of these maps now - hopefully they don't all start the player surrounded by Hell Knights or giant blocks of Imps ;P

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j4rio said:

(The benefit of these endless maps is that authors get hours of most likely tedious to watch attempts and can't even speed it up in prb+ much because it's so huge that speeding up is barely notable)


And that's why I've been trying to stay away from huge maps lately.

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gggmork said:

Oh yeah, if anyone cares, this post about reject table's making big complex maps more efficient/faster is interesting:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1135914#post1135914
I bet insane gazebo would find that useful for sunder too.

Yes, everyone *please* do this, always. It can NEVER slow a map down, and almost always provides some benefit. Especially important in slaughter maps!

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j4rio said:
I guess I'll focus on different key section next time.


So I did. Another 50 minute demo, gets RK and follows up to BK. I didn't play BK nor seen any part of it before, so it's rather FDAesque.

To be fair, both ways felt somewhat awkward compared to yk. And RK seems entirely unchanged, or something. You can still open up HKs through metallic bars and all stuff I mentioned previously. I hope I used correct version.

BK way... eh, dunno. I'll have to replay, or something. I really have no idea about some encounters. :p
I played without sound so some things I did will probably seem dumb.

http://filesmelt.com/dl/shith4.lmp

Also, first 3 archviles are easy to dodge and I never bother to take out, as it takes too long to kill each with ssg due to height, usually 6-7 direct hits at best. I would just switch them for hitscanners and place them on both sides of room.

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j4rio said:

And RK seems entirely unchanged, or something. You can still open up HKs through metallic bars and all stuff I mentioned previously. I hope I used correct version.


indeed. I neglected to fix that stuff in v3, the v4 sitting on my computer has a more modified RK area that fixed some of those problems. I thought about posting it but at this stage I thought itd be unlikely that people would re-playtest such a large map when the changes weren't that significant, so I was gonna wait til I had a final or near-final version to post another wad. (In particular I'm kinda curious what you think of the final wing. AB's commentary had me thinking of slightly overhauling it at one point)


BK way... eh, dunno. I'll have to replay, or something. I really have no idea about some encounters. :p


if you're time isn't overly valuable you could watch the silly demo where I got to the BK room :), though after watching your demo I see a few things I'd like to alter.


Also, first 3 archviles are easy to dodge and I never bother to take out, as it takes too long to kill each with ssg due to height, usually 6-7 direct hits at best. I would just switch them for hitscanners and place them on both sides of room.


Yeah I was always iffy on those, they felt kinda pointless from the beginning.

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A'ight, I went through section after keys.

- After you press keys requiring switches, those avs could be placed on top of that lowering barrier rather than along with cybers.
- I'd put some hks at the back of the long imp hallway with revs on sides to encourage getting closer instead of camping.
- Revs here are terrible to dodge after you lower them, I'd switch revs in closets near player to hks.
- Fight after entering is a little sloggy, holyhellesque, or whatever you call it. Kinda lacks a strategic touch. If I could suggest something, those platforms in the back could contain a heap of AVs on both sides which would prevent player from freely circling around room and force clearing it in chunk-by-chunk fashion.
- Fight with ton of zombies and avs is luckbased. You can't dodge hitscan, and therefore HP lost is always entirely random excluding AV hits, which will also be somewhat random because you can mistakely shoot one that is about to flame up a zombie. Not a fan of that. I'd change zombies to imps and make more ammo become available down there when you trigger this fight.
- Cacos can cause some serious blocking with infinitelytalliness, but whatevs. It's not particularly interesting fight tbh. There is enormous amount of them but still not enough to pose serious trouble, because whole room is just humongous and offers more than enough free space. I really have no idea what to suggest, because cacos totally suck at infighting. Also, that teleporter to caco closet should be inaccessible until you press something on ground level because it's quite likely to cluelessly teleport into the middle of caco load. The only not too plausible idea I could think of would be to give player spamBFG at this point placed at the very top of building and open up more closets and cybers/avs from current last fight along with cacos, ditch imp/cyber battle and call it a day. With current layout and limitations it's about as much as I could think of that wouldn't become slow paced underwhelming slog.
- Make sure areas that get locked up are accessible in multiplayer.

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ty for comments. I thought the final area was the weakest, and I think I have some good ideas now on how to make it better. The last 3 fights (caco horde, imp+cyb, cyb+AV) are going to be seriously reworked.

j4rio said:

- Fight with ton of zombies and avs is luckbased.


it's possible to beat pretty much without taking any damage :p. AB disliked that fight also but for some reason it's one of my favorites in the map.


- Make sure areas that get locked up are accessible in multiplayer.


oh god that's going to be a pain in the ass, has everyone been doing that for their maps? because I didn't for the other 2 I made, I just settled on "yup, there's coop starts, but it's not tested, etc..."

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annnd here we go. a pretty serious update, yet still not final :p

Anathema v4

- Completely reworked final fight. It took like a hundred dummy sectors, but I made the fortress discombobulate :). It's definitely more of a 'finale'. (wad now contains bfg dehacked, so it still just requires cc4-tex for testing)
- Fixed many of the bugs j4 found during playthroughs (red key room glitches, campable spots, etc).
- Miscellaneous detailing, the RK route should be slightly less hideous now.
- More enemies! the RK and BK routes received a sprinkling of additional AVs and such.

Todo list:

- I agree that the first fight in the final room is a bit mindless, so I'll toy around with trying to make that more interesting.
- I'm mulling over minor changes for a few areas (AVs in the BK rev room, for example)
- Difficulty settings!
- Coop Features... maybe.

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Again, brief, no demo (just iddqd'd through)

- RK - annoying platforms to caco closet, too notable height changes between each platform making it frustrating
- more rockets here, you'd be spamming a load at HK horde, so add some, for example to caco closet and onto platform with RK
- HK horde could be a little more friendly to spam out, as from the platform with button revealing cacos and few PEs closet you're too far for autoaim to register
- BK - caged avs could have something that quickly takes care of them, like crusher or something
- some more ammo in places would be nice, as there's lots of spamming happenning in this part
- much better finale, I think
- no need to bother with multiplayer indepth, but just make sure that bars that lock you up in sp are openable from other side - either that or add coop teleporters
+ stuff I mentioned earlier you haven't done anything about yet

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5/5 would read again.


aside from final version of map30, what else still needs to be done before compiling everything?

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ha ha, great story.
5th line of 2nd to last paragraph: "wad was be"

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heh

Now that I think about it, slaughterfest is so hilariously cheesy name.

Ribbiks said:
aside from final version of map30, what else still needs to be done before compiling everything?


- some artsy stuff
- a few maps rather need a few edits - I left some imput about it some pages back, pretty much nothing besides map 30 was worked on meanwhile
- waiting for stance on GoS map (whether it will exist or not)
- setting midis to work on 33-35 mapslots (although that's probably on to-do list after compiling)
- maybe additional skill level related edits to some maps (doesn't matter too much since none will play it on any difficulty whatsoever)
- some edits to maps that may break up in multiplayer ( ==||== )

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j4rio said:

setting midis to work on 33-35 mapslots (although that's probably on to-do list after compiling)

I think MUSINFO is enough since most of people prefers playing in prboom+ or (g)zdoom.

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@Jario: There do need to be gameplay edits for difficulty settings, that was one of the requirements set at the beginning of the year.

E: Nvm, I thought I read you write they didn't need to be implemented.

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Done about as much as I can with DHland. Secret exit area is done and difficulties have been tweaked beyond just weapon placement. Download Doomherolandia v.8

Also, I'm not sure if it's fixed, but here's Damnation. Switch shouldn't be activatable from the underside, and I played it in boom on my mac and no monsters seemed "stuck". Difficulty remains untouched.

If anyone has not implemented difficulties to their maps and don't care to, just let me know and I can fix it up.

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^

There are no stuck monsters, but due to boom they can if you shoot them at the edge of sectors without blocky lines. I can alter it later and check whether it's beatable after all. I really didn't try beforehand.

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I think I'm finally done with this :)

Anathema v5 (final version)

- Added crushers for the AVs in the BK area, and for the HKs in the YK area, both switches are slightly hidden.
- Added a couple more secret areas, one of them might require sr50, so it's not marked as secret.
- Added some baddies to the floor fight in the final room. It's still pretty much a clusterfuck, but now there's more 'incentives' to take it section by section.
- More rockets to spam out the RK HK horde.
- Overall a bit more health and ammo was sprinkled throughout the map. I also added a couple more spheres for the final fight, partly because I think I would feel bad if someone managed to make it that far but got rocked by the AV/cyb horde.
- map is now coop friendly! by that I mean most of the areas that 'lock' you in can now be accessed from the outside via teleporters/switches, etc. No multiplayer gameplay has been tested though so it's very likely you could still break some areas if you really wanted to.
- difficulty settings have been implemented! There's basically 2 levels, UV, and everything else. HMP and below includes a LOT more health, and the dangerous monsters have been toned down.

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Relatively minor things and that's probably everything from my end -

- I take it you are way too attached to those three archviles in first room to simply remove them. :p

RK room :
- When you trigger cyber and barons, you can get attacked by further viles without a way to take cover. You could make some more distant step activate those guys.
- Mancubuses/barons after getting RK is rather underwhelming encounter, I think I'd swap those barons for PEs or lost souls or mastermind or something, because barons in this particular situation seem rather boring to me after what you've been through beforehand.
- You can just entirely skip imp/av closets opened after obtaining RK.

After getting all keys and activating buttons - I'm not too fond of those revs in closets that you release by pressing the button at the end of this room. Those released close to player are probably impossible to reliably dodge.

Final room - I'm not sure about how survivable is last encounter, I'd have to try it a few times. You might as well be a little generous and change those soulspheres to megaspheres.

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Anathema v6 (final-er version)

Incorporates the following changes and/or not-changes:

j4rio said:

I take it you are way too attached to those three archviles in first room to simply remove them.


against your wishes for 5 revisions they remain :p


RK room :


fixed, fixed, and fixed.


revs in closets


I played this a bunch of times and it still hasn't given me too much trouble. you have 200/200 going into it and I added a couple medikits, so I'm inclined to leave it as is.


Final room - I'm not sure about how survivable is last encounter


if you use the invul secret (which was intended), it's very doable. but without it it is seriously seriously difficult. It is possible to beat without the secret, but if you want a decent chance of survival it's basically mandatory. This version just adds 4 megaspheres sprinkled throughout the room, but I'll try it a couple more times and see if it makes more sense just to remove the secret and give the player an invul.

edit: noticed a couple HOMs and alignment errors, so there's going to be a v7 regardless -.-

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Ribbiks said:
if you use the invul secret (which was intended), it's very doable. but without it it is seriously seriously difficult. It is possible to beat without the secret, but if you want a decent chance of survival it's basically mandatory. This version just adds 4 megaspheres sprinkled throughout the room, but I'll try it a couple more times and see if it makes more sense just to remove the secret and give the player an invul.


Well, if there is such a notable difference in survivability depending on secret, I'd probably keep invul as non-secret and have it lower on one of columns with soulspheres. The one that is currently invulnerability could be changed to megasphere. I would also probably add something more, like full closet or two of HKs or something for some additional chaos.

E:

Also, I'm not sure if it's fixed, but here's Damnation. Switch shouldn't be activatable from the underside, and I played it in boom on my mac and no monsters seemed "stuck". Difficulty remains untouched.


I've gone through whole damnation now. Switch is still possible to press from below and I've pinpointed all places to add blocklines to. Difficulty wise - I'm not sure. The last fight is rather... ehhh. Invulnerability could be tweaked so it wouldn't be in the way and be impossible to pick by mistake. To be fair, I think it's a little too far into wad compared to how I remember it, so I'd probably put it a little sooner into progress throughout wad. Is chaning names of lumps in cwilv everything that's necessary to make mapnames work or was there something else to it?

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j4rio said:

Is changing names of lumps in cwilv everything that's necessary to make mapnames work or was there something else to it?


need to also:

change the HUSTR_X string variables via dehacked, and I guess also make a mapinfo lump for zdoom. Both of those are trivially easy to do though.

Rayzik said:

I'm back.

Here's final version of WWMIH.


wb

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Looks like whole filesmelt is down. I don't have it on my laptop so seems like you'll just have to wait until it's back up.

BTW, would it be too much of an annoyance if there was last change to map listing? Damnation could be placed to 12th or 13th slot and other maps would therefore have to move up by 1 except map 15 due to secret exit. I was and still am relatively busy lately so I couldn't take care of anything, sori.

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I'd say rather 12. Also, can you implement that musinfo thingie for maps 33-35 if you know how to?

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