Doom 2 in name only (tentative title)

Capellan said:

If I can make map32 based on the actual level name (Grosse) rather than on a PWAD, sign me up.


sure. i'll mark you down

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I suddenly want to try my hand at map29 - the living end, and/or map04 - the focus. They both sound like something i could have ideas about, and this sounds like a good opportunity to return to doom mapping again. However, i don't wanna promise anything since my inspiration can apparently vanish into oblivion completely. Now that i've secured those slots, back to actually reading the thread beyond the first page...

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Just something that occurred to me: some of the original Doom and Doom II maps had small errors in them, such as slime trails. Are we allowed that same small margin of error?

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Antroid said:

I suddenly want to try my hand at map29 - the living end, and/or map04 - the focus. They both sound like something i could have ideas about, and this sounds like a good opportunity to return to doom mapping again. However, i don't wanna promise anything since my inspiration can apparently vanish into oblivion completely. Now that i've secured those slots, back to actually reading the thread beyond the first page...


i'm going to mark you down for the The Focus, if that's alright? i want the penultimate level to be something really special, especially because of how good its namesake is. i might want to have some sort of "audition" for that one, where anyone who wants the slot makes at least some of the map and shows it off before i choose who's going to take it and/or there's a vote. i might even claim it, depending on if i can get my other maps done and do something that's of good enough quality (or i'll give up one of my other claims).

Obsidian said:

Just something that occurred to me: some of the original Doom and Doom II maps had small errors in them, such as slime trails. Are we allowed that same small margin of error?


unless it's part of some intentional effect, try to avoid it. i think Doom 2's bugs had more to do with the amount of time it was made in than anything else.

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Actually i wanted to do the living end a lot more. The name begs for some fleshy action and i am all over that stuff in doom. I can, of course, make a part of it in a day or two before you officially give me the slot, if you so wish. I understand that you wouldn't want such an important map to end up mediocre :D

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Antroid said:

Actually i wanted to do the living end a lot more. The name begs for some fleshy action and i am all over that stuff in doom. I can, of course, make a part of it in a day or two before you officially give me the slot, if you so wish. I understand that you wouldn't want such an important map to end up mediocre :D


yeah, i'd definitely like to see something significant and impressive before i let anyone take that one. sorry to be so picky about that slot, but i just want that level to be something special. will you be alright with taking The Focus for now and then we can decide further down the road who's going to do The Living End? you can certainly make a level for The Living End and show it if you'd like, as long as you're aware of the possibility that it may not make it in.

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Sure, i am 100% fine with that. I feel ya about being picky with how the living end gets represented in your project. Especially since i have never released a doom map before (made quite a few for a megawad though, so i feel confident about trying map29 :) ).

Edit: a quick question to the holders of the last few maps of the megawad, like map30 and 28 and 27. Are we going deep underground by the end of this wad, like in the original, or are your maps' concepts compatible with an (at least partially) open-air map29? Ella guro, if you have strong feelings about this aspect of 29, of course say so too.

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i don't have strong feelings about what people do, thematic-wise. that's really up to them. each map doesn't necessarily have to fit with the theme of the one around it either (since that's a thing that's very difficult to do with so many authors anyway), though it would be neat if they did.

i do, however, want those last few to live up to the reputation of being the last few maps. that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be huge in scale, but they should have strong, interesting concepts that are at least reasonably well-executed (not that the other maps shouldn't be). they should be environments that make sense as a whole, if you understand what i mean. if not i'll try to think of some examples - it might be helpful to talk more about this anyway, as i think this is a thing that doesn't get talked enough about with level design.

btw if at some point you want to just go for The Living End and leave The Focus open, just let me know.

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I probably understand what you mean. Essentially, it boils down to a map not just being an abstract mess, that might as well have been called anything else, right? I think this project makes people think about the main idea behind their map a bit more than usual, since the maps' contents need to represent their names. So "the living end", for example, should not just be a random marble-wood-stone-flesh-tech hellmaze, or a temple, or something equally generic. If you ask me, the original didn't hav much to do with it's name either :D I will try to think of something memorable, and if i can't i am fine with just doing the focus, i got ideas for that one already.

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the name "the living end" is a thing that's basically impossible to represent as any particular kind of map, anyway. it doesn't make much suggestion of the contents of the map at all. it's really a tongue-and-cheek play on the fact that the original is big and difficult. so whoever makes the map would have to come up with their own idea outside of the title and just make sure whatever comes out ends up fitting it somehow.

yeah, this project absolutely aims to get people to think more about the central themes of their maps than they would otherwise.

but yeah, give it a shot if you want. in any case, i'll keep you marked down for the focus.

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For my level I go by the impression that I had when I saw the level titles in the Doom FAQ, before I even bought Doom 2, rather than making a map based on the literal meaning of the title. Is it okay?

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sure. whatever impression you have of the title is absolutely fine and fair game. some stuff like "The Focus" is hard to interpret literally anyway. the thing i want to avoid is people making variations of the original maps themselves.

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Gaaahhh!!!.... Drawsegs! I'm pretty safe with the visiplane limit, but these Drawsegs are driving me nuts! Back to the drawing board....

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ella guro said:

some stuff like "The Focus" is hard to interpret literally anyway.


I think some fun could be had with an underground techbase map that suffered some kind of gigantic explosion or a shift of tectonic plates or something - AFAIK, the word "focus" means, among other things, something like that. Maybe a post-meltdown subterranean reactor that caused an earthquake.

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ella guro said:

sure. whatever impression you have of the title is absolutely fine and fair game. some stuff like "The Focus" is hard to interpret literally anyway. the thing i want to avoid is people making variations of the original maps themselves.


My map isn't really a variation of the original, but it does have a few bits from it(mainly the throne room). Is that a problem?

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Obsidian said:

My map isn't really a variation of the original, but it does have a few bits from it(mainly the throne room). Is that a problem?


While you're here, is your map entirely underground or does it have sky? Or maybe it has sky but is centered around going down? I wanna have a natural progression in map29.

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Obsidian said:

My map isn't really a variation of the original, but it does have a few bits from it(mainly the throne room). Is that a problem?


no, as long as it fits in with the rest of your map. but try to keep the referencing of the original to a minimum. the real point is you're conceptualizing your own level as if the original never existed.

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Antroid said:

While you're here, is your map entirely underground or does it have sky? Or maybe it has sky but is centered around going down? I wanna have a natural progression in map29.


A bit of a mix. I made a castle-type building for most of it with windows: you can just see the face texture scrolling past in the windows. I thought having the faces when you see out the window would personify the whole "Spirit World" theme. The last bit is underground. Tell you what, I'll get some screenies:


An early bit. Demons rise out of the pits. =D


A corridoor with a view.


The final section.

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ella guro said:

no, as long as it fits in with the rest of your map. but try to keep the referencing of the original to a minimum. the real point is you're conceptualizing your own level as if the original never existed.


Excellent. :-)

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Obsidian said:

...you can just see the face texture scrolling past in the windows. I thought having the faces when you see out the window would personify the whole "Spirit World" theme...


Now THAT is just a freaking awesome idea. Love it :D Those faces really do look like they want to get inside through the windows or at least watch you creepily. Or maybe they just float by in eternal agony and look at you. Man, that's cool.

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That looks freaking amazing, Obsidian. Way to set a high bar on quality. :)

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Although i just thought, maybe it could be beneficial for the atmosphere if you didn't have the faces just literally be a window texture like that, but instead added a high enough sector behind the windows so that all the faces are 8-16 units away from where the window edge is. That way it would look more like there's this endless mass of souls outside, instead of separate haunted window frames.

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Guys I have a problem I can't seem to fix, whenever I enter the outdoor area of the map (the city), chocolate doom just crashes with no error, it freezes rather.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2luyfzlf4l3nfaf

Map17, please can you come up with why does it crash like this?

EDIT: Issue fixed, one sector which was rendered normally in ports was causing vanilla to crash upon sight prediction

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Hey, this wad looks like a great idea, I would like to make level 18, the Courtyard map.

I've been mapping and experimenting with doombuilder before and I should be able to make a decent detailed/fun map.

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map15 is coming along nicely and without visplane etc problems (i hope). layout to normal exit is done though i may tone down the difficulty towards the end. just some side areas and the buildibg housing the secret exit to go. i will have proper internet (in using my phone atm) by the 31st august so i cant post screenshots or release my map before then. just want to keep active to show i am working on this. :)

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Antroid said:

Although i just thought, maybe it could be beneficial for the atmosphere if you didn't have the faces just literally be a window texture like that, but instead added a high enough sector behind the windows so that all the faces are 8-16 units away from where the window edge is. That way it would look more like there's this endless mass of souls outside, instead of separate haunted window frames.


I thought that too, but I'm not sure how to pull it off. I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: I tried and I failed. //_- It should still look alright, but you can only do so much with vanilla.

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Huh. I can't imagine what could go wrong. Unless you don't have space behind the windows or one more sector totally breaks all the vanilla limits, adding thin&tall rooms behind windows should be easy as pie.

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Antroid said:

Huh. I can't imagine what could go wrong. Unless you don't have space behind the windows or one more sector totally breaks all the vanilla limits, adding thin&tall rooms behind windows should be easy as pie.


For some reason some of the textures don't "stack" in vanilla. There's this ugly line that appears between each copy of the texture as it goes up the wall. I'd post an example but Doom95 throws a fit every time I try take a screenshot. X-(

On the plus side, my map is pretty much finished. I'll see if I can upload it.

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Obsidian said:

For some reason some of the textures don't "stack" in vanilla. There's this ugly line that appears between each copy of the texture as it goes up the wall. I'd post an example but Doom95 throws a fit every time I try take a screenshot. X-(

On the plus side, my map is pretty much finished. I'll see if I can upload it.

Only textures that are 128 high will stack properly. All other so called "short" textures will do the tutti-frutti when they tile vertically.

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