Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

Why do you need sky in map30 anyway? Maybe you can just make everything underground? I dare say that'd even be more atmospheric.

Also, by working around I meant the crap I already had to do to make it look like a black sky. Nothing too difficult, honestly, but a tad annoying. Don't worry, I do not plan on changing anything in it apart from ammo/health/monsters.

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I've been working on map 25, so I thought i'd check out map 24 to see how it ends... holy shit - is it meant to be even remotely playable?

Even on godmode its such a pain in the arse to play that I gave up. I'd make some suggestions to improve it but there is so much wrong from a gameplay point of view..

Has anyone else had a go at playing map24?

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mouldy said:

I've been working on map 25, so I thought i'd check out map 24 to see how it ends... holy shit - is it meant to be even remotely playable?

Even on godmode its such a pain in the arse to play that I gave up. I'd make some suggestions to improve it but there is so much wrong from a gameplay point of view..

Has anyone else had a go at playing map24?

los I did, wasn't much in the way of comment there, more of the wtf type really.
Map20, welcome to 1994 again, sky used as wall textures :D
seriously not a good idea haha. But it's getting there overall

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cannonball said:

los I did, wasn't much in the way of comment there, more of the wtf type really.
Map20, welcome to 1994 again, sky used as wall textures :D
seriously not a good idea haha. But it's getting there overall


What about the rest of the game?
And why is it bad to put sky as a screen that describes what's behind the door?

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cannonball said:

los I did, wasn't much in the way of comment there, more of the wtf type really.


Its colourful at least.

Here's a couple of pics of map 25 in progress


hopefully have something to try out in the next week or so.

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joe-ilya said:

What about the rest of the game?
And why is it bad to put sky as a screen that describes what's behind the door?


Because what's behind the door makes for a nice surprise!

You realise the sky textures exist only to define the appearance of F_SKY01? They're not supposed to be for standard use


@Mouldy: That looks pretty cool

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mouldy said:

Its colourful at least.

Here's a couple of pics of map 25 in progress


hopefully have something to try out in the next week or so.


Looks bloody falls , is the blood going to hurt this time?

At least the "wallsky" in my map makes sense , right?

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joe-ilya said:

Looks bloody falls , is the blood going to hurt this time?


No i'm not a big fan of damaging floor so this time the blood will be harmless.

@Eris cheers, its been quite a struggle getting it within vanilla limits

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Have you tested your map in vanilla mouldy? That's quite a lot of detail, it looks like it might exceed visplane/segs limits. edit: oh, I see your previous post now.
Also, are you aware that you can turn off "stretch short skies" in the display options and make skies look good? :) Or are you using mouselook?

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joe-ilya said:

At least the "wallsky" in my map makes sense , right?


To me, there is no justification for using the sky textures as anything other than as a sky. I understand why you want to use them, but as Cannonball said, it is a classic example of 1994 styled WADs. We don't want any of those in this project. But with enough work, even 1994 WADs can turn out well.

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Memfis said:

Have you tested your map in vanilla mouldy? That's quite a lot of detail, it looks like it might exceed visplane/segs limits. edit: oh, I see your previous post now.
Also, are you aware that you can turn off "stretch short skies" in the display options and make skies look good? :) Or are you using mouselook?


Ah didn't know about that option, cheers. I've been using visplane explorer in doombuilder and testing in chocolate doom, so fingers crossed it will all work. I've no doubt someone will find an error somewhere, there are a couple of visplane overload danger spots but they are in places the player cant get to.

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Eris Falling said:

To me, there is no justification for using the sky textures as anything other than as a sky. I understand why you want to use them, but as Cannonball said, it is a classic example of 1994 styled WADs. We don't want any of those in this project. But with enough work, even 1994 WADs can turn out well.


You want me to remove that detail? Alright , in the next update.

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Just replace the texture. If it's a door then shrink the sector down a bit and use a door texture.

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I've been keeping my eye on this map set for sometime now. I absolutely love the amount of hard work going into this so far and the fact that you guys are helping Joe-Ilya to improve whilst doing this. I really cannot wait to see the final release. I would've made a map but I cannot map too well unfortunately so keep up the good work.

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As for me, I would be more than glad to contribute, but I'm already filled with projects, both community and private. So, keep up with the good work! They look extremely sexy so far, BTW.

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Antroid said:

Why do you need sky in map30 anyway? Maybe you can just make everything underground? I dare say that'd even be more atmospheric.



Wow I didn't even see this post :/
That's an idea actually, moreso for the boss area since all other sins were supposed to be indoors (or they are in my mind at least) since I do prefer underground style mapping.

@Springy and Cell: Thank you both :)

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mouldy said:

I've been working on map 25, so I thought i'd check out map 24 to see how it ends... holy shit - is it meant to be even remotely playable?

Even on godmode its such a pain in the arse to play that I gave up. I'd make some suggestions to improve it but there is so much wrong from a gameplay point of view..

Has anyone else had a go at playing map24?

Pretty much sums up what I feel about Map 24. I found it ugly and with no gameplay at all. Hell, I couldn't even finish it WITH god mode on.

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mouldy said:

I've been working on map 25, so I thought i'd check out map 24 to see how it ends... holy shit - is it meant to be even remotely playable?

Even on godmode its such a pain in the arse to play that I gave up. I'd make some suggestions to improve it but there is so much wrong from a gameplay point of view..

Has anyone else had a go at playing map24?


I never thought i would have many critiques in my map, lol. But it not sorprise me, i finish it fast because i wanted to check something. Mi next version of the map gonna be better and more easy, but i dont understand yet, what part of the map is hard exactly?
Peace

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Joseph Lord said:

I never thought i would have many critiques in my map, lol. But it not sorprise me, i finish it fast because i wanted to check something. Mi next version of the map gonna be better and more easy, but i dont understand yet, what part of the map is hard exactly?
Peace




I didn't get any further than that first catwalk room without quitting so I can't say much about further on in the map. What I would suggest is adding some light on that starting lift (maybe the flashing light from the outer area), sort out those switches so you aren't just pressing thin air, add a bunch rocket ammo to deal with the hellknights, take out those barrels blocking the corridor after you warp. The side area sector 39 is inescapable. In the catwalk room make the catwalks thicker, especially that stupid corner bit that makes you fall off, and ditch the damaging floor - just falling off is punishment enough, and there is non-damamging nukage in other areas anyway. That cyber shooting at you while you are on the catwalks is far too deadly.

I don't have time at the moment to go through the rest of the map, but I think the first thing would be to make it so you yourself can get through it without dying or saving. That will give you a good starting point I think. There are a lot of 'bullshit' traps (stuff you can't survive without foreknowledge or luck) that could be toned down a bit. Its an interesting looking map, just very unfair as it is now.

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I think that this trap on map23 needs to be improved. Once I teleported in, I immediately moved a bit, so the revenants opened and I had no chance to observe the placement of barrels and plan my route. I dunno, you could say that is was my fault but think about locking the player at least for a few seconds so that he doesn't do anything stupid. And another thing: it's practically impossible to see all barrels when you're on the same ground level as they are. Now, if the player spawned on a tall pillar, that would be another story.

Aside from that, GJ on that map. I haven't seen the final battle yet but everything before that barrel trap was great. Many interesting and original situations that require quick reflexes and considerable effort to survive.

Oh, btw some hanging corpses in the red key area block the player in classic ports so you might want to change them to something else.

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To encourage stragglers to get moving with this project could I request that those 10 WIPs with no links be submitted and posted? How much progress has been made on them?

Perhaps if any of those 10 are too busy to finish their maps maybe they could pass their maps off (volley them) to other mappers for completion.

This project is hitting the 9 month mark and I would like to see a 32 map Alpha. Anyone in favor of either of these ideas?

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They could certainly - at least - PM me what they have so far. Antroid did this with MAP29, and although he says it isn't finished, it could definitely pass off as such (but finish it anyway please :P)

At the start of March I'm going to start the checking phase again. I can assure you this project won't be receiving the Mordeth award ^_^

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I'll post map 25 tomorrow, just adding monsters and shit.

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Don't you even dare link the map29 version you have Eris! I actually continued testing and fixing item placement in it today. It seems when I initially placed everything, I severely understocked both health and ammo. I'm still not gonna have a surplus, but at least enough to be able to beat it using all possible routes. Although it's annoying how much my performance varies each time I test it, I can't usually tell whether or not I actually need to place extra ammo. Oh well. When I think I'm done and post it, maybe people will playtest it for me some more and I can fix most remaining balance issues.

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Okay, so I playtested my map again in UV with 100% kills, without grabbing any of the secrets. Left the map barely alive, with few deaths. Notorious secrets are Mega armor, Megasphere, Berserk and Soul Sphere.

First, and funny thing is, most of the fights are completely optional.
Like the computer area when you ascend to main area. You can just sneeze past them, few only notices you. No need to fuzz with hell knights.
Or the blue key area. Avoid mancubi and arachnotrons, hit switch and get the hell outta there.
I don't like necessary prolonging, but somehow this kind avoidance of fights are... I don't know? Right? Well, Pacifist runners are probably going to like that.

The outdoor area, when you first enter, is not really great (as Eris said.) Cacodemons will be definitely kicked out from there (except the trap portion), and I'll minimize the current zombie count, and make some of them to teleport in from time to time, to keep area lively, keep players on their toes and keeping ammo count high enough.
Mancubi, revenants and imps will either get same processing as cacodemons, or pop in to time to time.

Red key trap can quite nasty, especially when all the containers open. Dead end, mancubi keeps you in and the rest of gang being annoyance. At least some cover against mancs. So I did little tweaking, and made that middle container open later for only further insult. Not THAT deadly anymore.

Blue key area is rather easy than I would like to. Player, if quick enough, can get behind the covers provided on the ledge area, or just completely ignore it. At the same time, I don't want it being sucky death trap either... Maybe put that switch inside the tank for starters?

As always, I can do bit more detailing to areas.

If you have something on your mind, blurt it out or be forever silent. -_-

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Eris Falling said:

But with enough work, even 1994 WADs can turn out well.


Then it won't be a 1994.wad .

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joe-ilya said:

Then it won't be a 1994.wad .

Yeah, back in time, it was hard to build something that is a true feast for the eye. The sad thing is that nowadays some people R still doing work like crap. Hope D2INO won't contain too much of these maps ;)

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Cell said:

Hope D2INO won't contain too much any of these maps ;)


FTFY

@CorSair: The mass of monsters was the major gripe I had with the map. You say they are optional, but I didn't have much fun trying to run through a narrow corridor with riot control cacodemons

@Antroid: Wasn't planning on revealing the map, that screenshot in the OP is all anyone gets until you decide to show it.

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Ok, here's map 25, bloodfalls:
http://www.mediafire.com/?18dty16ujgwim3b

No difficulty setting yet, and I'd be interested to hear from people about how hard/easy/unfair it is and if the ammo gives any problems. There are a lot of ways to go through it and ammo might be a bit tight on some routes (although I eat ammo like a pig so usually have to stick too much in the map just to get through it myself).

I've tested it for vanilla limits - there are a couple of danger zones but both in inaccessible areas so should be ok?

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