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Ancalagon
BFG spammer


Posts: 516
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it's boom wad so it's made to have unlimited lost souls :P, do you really care about wallrun?

Old Post Nov 29 2012 14:53 #
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Pottus
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Ancalagon said:
Disabled rj for you in the server :P, now you can't do rj over imps at start and red key, double rj at bfg, more rj at hks and rj to skip barons trap and rj out of castle and actually play the map :D
And it is not bad settings in the server -.-, just more than 1500 imps wake at that part and it's too much for a server

Kind of reminds me of our Sunder testing lol.

Old Post Nov 29 2012 14:59 #
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Okuplok
Green Marine


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thanks for the feedback guys!

remember this is only 1/4 of the map, so 3 more sections like this to come and that exit is just temporary while i finish the next part. ;)

ooo that jump part, a teleport will quickly fix that :P and i promise no more jump ledges later in map ;)

yeah ammos is a bit tight at some parts, will playtest more and add more stashes.

jongo will fix that for you, but wont you be able to just rj back to the part you just came from? :o also i can make those imps deaf if that will make it not lagout for coop.

and baaw gggmork is one of the most entertaining to watch :(

Old Post Nov 29 2012 15:28 #
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Okuplok
Green Marine


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ok so the grindfest continues with 2/4 now done and ready for testing :P

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v21.png

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v22.png

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v23.png

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v24.png

you will need to play from the start otherwise later traps will break because of voodoo stuff.

good luck jongo ;)

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v2.wad

Old Post Dec 6 2012 17:59 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
may have been DoomHero85 at some point


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Looks cool dude. However, the monster count isn't skyrocketing as fast as I was hoping :P C'mon, 100,000 monsters!

Old Post Dec 6 2012 18:07 #
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j4rio
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:|

Old Post Dec 6 2012 18:48 #
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Ribbiks
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Okuplok said:
you will need to play from the start otherwise later traps will break because of voodoo stuff.

Doesn't that make playtesting difficult?

Old Post Dec 6 2012 18:53 #
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Okuplok
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Ribbiks said:
Doesn't that make playtesting difficult?

yeah it does somewhat, i will probably add multiple voodoo's for each section in future.

Old Post Dec 6 2012 19:18 #
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j4rio
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It doesn't take that much effort to disconnect voodoos you've already made as long as you still remember what they do. It's much more convenient.

Old Post Dec 6 2012 19:38 #
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qoncept
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Will we be able to play this with multiplayer? Ive never played through HH or no chance because they don't work in multiplayer.

Old Post Dec 6 2012 19:52 #
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j4rio
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Got any singleplayer demo from start to somewhere where you presumably died? Or exited? I'm kinda curious how you solve some sections. Can't get past point where I get ssg as I just helplessly run out of ammo each time.

Old Post Dec 6 2012 20:30 #
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Okuplok
Green Marine


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welcome to die, with 3/4 of the map now done

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v31.png

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v32.png

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v33.png

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v34.png

-added starting room (mainly to prevent insta lag death in coop)

-voodoo's now split

-teleporting monsters don't all wake at start (did this to prevent fps lag in some sourceports, though defeats the purpose of splitting voodoo's heh)

any bugs/problems let me know lols

come on bloodite krypto, i expect to see a uv-max under 5 hours from you :P

http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v3.wad

Old Post Jan 1 2013 23:52 #
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gggmork
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If you do a demo of the final version, maybe youtube it because that last (1/4?) done demo I watched became too laggy to watch on my taquter, Taquito. Not sure if "teleporting monsters don't all wake at start" might fix that lag. I think it was just the demo that lagged, not actually playing it.
I remember not being able to "fast forward" holy hell demos by increasing speed because it pretty much could only play at normal speed.

Old Post Jan 2 2013 00:04 #
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RjY
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Please, build a reject table.

Ignore those who would tell you they never make any difference any more. This is exactly the kind of map massive population, but broken into separate, mostly disjoint sections where a reject table does wonders. This is the difference for a timedemo of just standing still in the first room for a few seconds:
code:
% doom2 oku2v3.wad -nosound -timedemo d.lmp | grep FPS FPS: 17.1 (328 tics [0:09] / 670 real [0:19]) % doom2 oku-reject.wad -nosound -timedemo d.lmp | grep FPS FPS: 62.7 (328 tics [0:09] / 183 real [0:05])
For building a reject table I use ZenNode. It's something you'd probably only do once, just before release. However, even on my old computer it took under 10 seconds:
code:
% zennode -n- -b- -rg oku2v3.wad ZenNode Version 1.2.1 (c) 1994-2004 Marc Rousseau Working on: oku2v3.wad *MAP01 : REJECT - Efficiency: 98.0%/ 0.0% Sectors: 3797 9.192 secs Saving to oku-reject.wad... 1 Level processed in 9.192 seconds - 1 Level needed updating.
and after that the map never lagged once, ever.

Old Post Jan 2 2013 10:37 #
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Okuplok
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thanks for the advice rjy! :)

i did what you said and it seems way better fps.

here's link: http://okuplok.webs.com/oku2v31.wad

Old Post Jan 2 2013 12:44 #
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Anima Zero
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For what I played (Up to the first cacovasion), all I can say is...

..DAMN!

Massive, beautiful, and it is out for blood. I'm pretty sure I said "Where the hell is some actual health?" more than once, that's for sure, heh.

Old Post Jan 3 2013 18:48 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
may have been DoomHero85 at some point


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I just got back online yesterday, just wondering if this was still being worked on.

Old Post Apr 15 2013 01:19 #
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jongo
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Same question. Also i have burned out of doom for a few months and didn't post any feedback and bug reports (there are few minor ones), might be a good idea to do so after refreshing a memory a bit. Hope this gets finished eventually, that was a thrill trying to beat the map for weeks and coming up with strats for each trap :)

Old Post Apr 17 2013 20:01 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Okuplok said:
Come on bloodite krypto, i expect to see a uv-max under 5 hours from you :P
I did it! :D

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l...zpse0398280.png

It only took me 100 save and load attempts over a 2 day period.

I decided to wait till you release most of the map first then give it a shot.

I think the first battle is too cruel, only because when you get midway up the stairs and those PE's are released it becomes ludicrously difficult to dodge and you can't progress forward owing to the impending AV's in the cage, not sure whether those PE's are a good idea, it's ideal for coop but for SP it's too menacing at least because not everyone has Chuck Norris evasion skills.

I absolutely suck really badly at the RK with the Cybs and cave of Imps with Cavo Invasion, I couldn't really work out a safe tactic? Other than you need to swerve back and forth and rely on infighting but even then you need to dive in and out between Imps while hoping to avoid cross fire until enough have emerged to head into the cave, but it's really tricky with those Cyb rockets.

My favourite tense fight is the huge corner ambush with the Demons, PE's and AV's in the cage, I liked wasting all 100 rockets in the corner while holding my ground hoping not to get over run or a Lost Soul strays in the way then having to wade right through the horde with Plasma, grab some rockets, then try and push your way back through and repeat the process. Took a few tries to work out the right timing but it was very nice.

Problems start to rise in the Grey Canyon with Slime and the huge corridor of 2000 Imps and Revenants, theirs nowhere near enough ammo to take everything out, I could just manage to kill all the Imps and then use all the cell ammo at the end near the doorway to kill the 20 Cybers, but theirs nothing left to kill the Revenants on the platforms or the Demons inside. At that point I had to IDFA.

At this point their is nowhere near enough health to suffice let alone keep you alive with just Medkits, it assumes you know exactly what your doing without affording to make any mistakes, which becomes just tedious as no one can hope to have exceptional dodging skills in such really tight quarters. I'm talking about the inside area with the huge HK slugfest, AV's above and Revenants from behind, the AV's really pin you down and while I saw the strategy and got it going, I didn't like the fact theirs no Mega or Soulsphere in that area apart from after you've killed everything.

Now the brown outside area with lava, Revs in the cage, Mancubie far away and HK's on the platform really needs more ammo, also how can you expect to dodge the AV's rising up from the staircase? You can't run back in time, and going forward is suicidal.

My favourite trap for it's sheer creativity is the crushers with the Barons, it's quite intense at first but then you steadily make your way back, hoping some don't slip through.

Now this is the first real tough monstrosity.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l...zps059ad98e.png

The trap is very neat with the huge HK's pinning you down and having to rely on the Cybs in the cages to wear them down while avoiding rockets and swerving in and out, but afterwards it's really frustrating to kill the Cybs in the cage while avoiding all the incoming fire from across both sides of the room. Can we have a crusher switch please? :>

The most boring and dull fight was the outside red canyon with the 2000 demons, it wasn't inspiring or inventive and while it's satisfying it drags on for quite a bit, but afterwards the Rev horde manages to choke up the engine quite a bit.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l...zpscbabd9a3.png

However you redeem yourself with the final fight, with the interesting onslaught of Demons while having to avoid Revs in the cages and dive in for ammo, and theirs atleast an Invul to take the pressure away.

Also the trademark last switch with AV's is hilarious!

It needs more ammo in some places, and more generous supplies of health pretty much everywhere! Otherwise it was a tremendous massacre, and I'm sure the last 1/4 will make me regret playing it so far D:

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on Apr 21 2013 at 22:26

Old Post Apr 21 2013 22:12 #
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jongo
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I think the first battle is too cruel, only because when you get midway up the stairs and those PE's are released it becomes ludicrously difficult to dodge and you can't progress forward owing to the impending AV's in the cage
It becomes really easy with just a little practice, i think Oku's demo has a strat in it. Online it's easier to back off and not release pains at all until imps are dead though.

I absolutely suck really badly at the RK with the Cybs and cave of Imps with Cavo Invasion, I couldn't really work out a safe tactic?
There are at least two very safe starts for it, then it's just a matter of not screwing up your movement.

Problems start to rise in the Grey Canyon with Slime and the huge corridor of 2000 Imps and Revenants, theirs nowhere near enough ammo to take everything out
Kill some, rush through, wake cybs (and maybe pinkies), rush back. There's one bugged revenant on one of the hills btw who falls out of bounds (but is still killable).

At this point their is nowhere near enough health to suffice let alone keep you alive with just Medkits, it assumes you know exactly what your doing without affording to make any mistakes.

Isn't it the same throughout the whole map? :D

I'm talking about the inside area with the huge HK slugfest, AV's above and Revenants from behind, the AV's really pin you down and while I saw the strategy and got it going, I didn't like the fact theirs no Mega or Soulsphere in that area apart from after you've killed everything.

I assume you're speaking about the start of part02 here. I agree that additional health in that area would be beneficial. There are two strats that work that i know of - the silent pacifist take-no-damage-but-spend-20minutes strat, which isn't difficult offline... or the yolo strat that requires a bit of luck with killing viles above the button. Then you'll run in ammo problems though. Having no room for mistake sucks at this point though, this is the trap where the first death almost always happened in our online testings with Watakid.

Now the brown outside area with lava, Revs in the cage, Mancubie far away and HK's on the platform really needs more ammo, also how can you expect to dodge the AV's rising up from the staircase? You can't run back in time, and going forward is suicidal.

Some ammo would be nice, but i feel this area is fine. Also viles are very easy to dodge there, you dont need to run too close, the linedef is pretty far from the entrance. Trigger them and run back, then behind the central revcage. They'll have hard time reaching you and are easily dispatched from that spot.

My favourite trap for it's sheer creativity is the crushers with the Barons, it's quite intense at first but then you steadily make your way back, hoping some don't slip through.

I prefer to memorize the pattern of crushers and just run through, works everytime and you save mega doing so:p. Cheese out teh trapz!

it's really frustrating to kill the Cybs in the cage while avoiding all the incoming fire from across both sides of the room. Can we have a crusher switch please?
This big trap in part3 is very luckbased, or we just havent managed to find a proper strat. Either way, i'd like it to be toned down a little in luckdependance (and by "little" i mean "a lot"), and to include crushers for cybs. Or just make crushers timed, i dunno. It's such a chore killing them.

The most boring and dull fight was the outside red canyon with the 2000 demons
Completely agree on this point, the trap is so ridiculously easy and tedious (and it lags out online even if you remove all other parts of the map :p) that it has no point.

Now on my own suggestions.
I think the first part (up until the door behind 20 cybs in slime) is all fine, except for maybe the interior of the fortress, which could have a drop or two of additional meds.
Second part is brutal, as already have been pointed out, the very first trap lacks hp, i'd prefer to have a bit more at least in the full map (i assume you'll cut them in parts eventually like holyhell, and if you do, there's no need to nerf traps imo).
The next killer trap is the revenant zigzagy hall, which is utterly impossible in my eyes. So impossible that i even recorded a joke tas demo of it a while ago. Tested so many approaches and none of them worked. Plz tell stratz or fix we beg u kthx.
The penultimate trap of part02 is another example of an overkill which even Anc considers an over-the-top thing. Cacovasion with hkvasion and 30+ viles with a measly help of 2 cybers (or was it 1? i forgot already), and lack of health. I'd go as far as to include armor and more hp into each hole with viles, and to add an additional cyber, while also giving player more time before the cacovasion starts. At least some nerfing is required, otherwise all max attempts that actually would manage to reach this part, would end horribly.
Part03 has some of the most awesome traps in the map. First few are ez and interesting (with one exception that i and Krypto commented on already), but then comes trap with a mount in the middle and tons of revs and viles on top of it. It usually lasts for a prolonged period of time due to massive cacovasion and hkvasion. If the player fails to kill viles quickly, they kill him instead. Killing them is a problem usually due to autoaim and cacos flying/taking shots/blocking movement and being generally irritating. Even if you don't hit them, they will eventually start to randomly hit you while switching targets, because things die all the time there. Which ends up badly after a minute or two. Because you're also getting hit randomly by lava too. I still feel that this trap is quite well balanced, but having more options in your movement would help. I'd suggest adding 2-3 more mounts in the area which could be used for hiding from viles and projectiles, and attracting cacos. Online we ended up doing my stupid cheaty strat all the time instead of fighting properly. 2nd player just stands above without jumping into the trap and kills off everything from there afterwards.

All the other traps seem to be fair (lol), albeit ruthless. I'd really like to see this map worked on again :p

EDIT: why the fuck did it keep screwing with my first youtube link and replacing characters in it with garbage. Replaced with a shortened one.

Last edited by jongo on Jun 25 2013 at 12:00

Old Post Jun 25 2013 11:49 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Well met Jongo.

I demand this notorious masochistic madman come out of hiding and finish this hideous monstrosity so we can all furiously bang our heads on a nearby wall trying to legimately conquer it.

I honestly expect a HMP difficulty with this, because we all can't live up to the standard of the greatest player of all time.

Rayzik said:
Jesus Christ alive. What have we done to deserve this?

lmao.

Best response to this entire map.

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on Sep 15 2013 at 16:50

Old Post Jul 12 2013 14:54 #
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Grain of Salt
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Hey hey. I'm aware this is an ancient thread, but could someone possibly reupload the last version (oku2v31.wad) of this? I'm sure I could PM someone who has it, but I think it would be nice to get a public download up again, because I remember this map being quite neat.

And just out of curiosity, to those of you who've played the later versions (I only played the first one), how would you say this map compares to Nochance and/or other similarly notorious maps? (If you can stand comparing such different playing styles, I guess).

Also: merry christmas.

__________________
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wwitch: hmmm
wwitch: hard to top that

Old Post Dec 1 2015 07:32 #
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rdwpa
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I got you.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/d...az7/oku2v31.wad

Old Post Dec 1 2015 08:11 #
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Grain of Salt
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Thanks!

__________________
Wine cat: hey help me think of some variation on "male gamers are trash" to be my new signature on doom forums
wwitch: hmmm
wwitch: hard to top that

Old Post Dec 1 2015 09:16 #
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Ashstrodamus
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I deleted that thing just as quickly as I downloaded it. Hell no. It did show me that I've got to get much better at strafing from right to left. I naturally strafe left to right and get by with it in almost all cases, but those damn pillars have very little room for error while playing beat the clock from incoming fire. Screw that shit.

Old Post Dec 1 2015 10:24 #
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Ribbiks
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Grain of Salt said:
And just out of curiosity, to those of you who've played the later versions (I only played the first one), how would you say this map compares to Nochance and/or other similarly notorious maps? (If you can stand comparing such different playing styles, I guess).

it is super god damn hard. not only is it a bajillion years long, some of the encounters are absolutely bonkers. Jongo has a video somewhere of the curvy rev hallway that I'm pretty sure is impossible outside of TAS, for example.

I love this map, but I will unapologetically play with iddqd-iddqd after certain encounters to bring me back to 100 hp. the map is soo stingy with resources.

Old Post Dec 1 2015 14:09 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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There's also this.

http://static.best-ever.org/wads/

Scroll down to 'oku2' and you'll find nine versions of the file of varying sizes. No idea what the differences are. Never played it.

Old Post Dec 1 2015 15:27 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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I replayed it today but was somehow 15 mins slower compared to my 1st exit D: Despite finding it much easier due to learning better strategies.



Again this was without using 'God Mode' at all, but I didn't need to resort to using IDFA once compared to my 1st run as I discovered more effective strategies so I had no genuine ammo problems at all.

Many of the problems I mentioned in the past don't seem to apply anymore, the opening fight is easy once you learn the correct strategy, I made the RK fight easy by employing a different technique altogether, the pinkie rush + PE's + AV Cage was trivialized by first emptying all 100 rockets then rush through with plasma hugging the cage, pick up 100 rockets then spin 180 and dive back to the door.

I noticed at the BFG you can delay killing the viles as you can pick up the cell ammo and hug the marble pillars to avoid being blasted. The crimson arena with HK's + Mancubie cage still involves having them come towards the centre then correcly time diving between opposite sides of the room while avoiding the bullet hell. Here's the first obvious and crucial flaw with the map, your expected to preserve cell ammo for the corridor section with the Chaingunners and Cyber otherwise it's impossible to pass, but their's no clear indication you would need to beforehand.

Castle with the Cyber and Baron army is similar to the previous fight, then circle strafing while avoid the AV's, no need to pull the trigger just let the Cybs kill all the Barons, you need to save the ammo for later anyway. Interior with the Spider and Revs just involves rushing the Revs with BFG on one side, hang for a bit, then dive to the other end, then clearing the upper ledges with Revs + Cybs needs caution with little space and awkward positioning.

My prior concern with ammo at the Grey Canyon with 2000 Imps is gone after seeing it's best to wake the Cybers as soon as possible, then they are able to kill all the Revs above without needing to pull the trigger and can help clear the imps. The inside fight with the HK's + Revs + AV Cage somehow made that easy with a tactic of staying as far back as possible, letting the HK's come out till I'm almost cornered then just dive for the tunnel, hang around a bit, then come back out and circle strafe.

I don't know how to kill the Cacos in the windows prior to the slime Revenant rush, you can't shoot them prior to the Revenants as you wake them up with splash damage so you can't fall down, but after falling down you can't hit the Cacos so I had to noclip back up after killing the Revs to take care of them.

The infamous Revenant Corridor, you need to weave back and forth between both sides constantly, the Cybs infighting help direct some attention away from yourself, getting the right rhythm of movement resulting in rockets swerving to the sides seems to be the key. I can beat it with save scumming but their's no reliable strategy, you have to be flawless taking minimum damage same with the previous area with the Revenant rush in the slime. No cover and no room to move with no health, you need to have excellent close quarter dodging skills.

That brown outside area with AV Cages + Rev Cage + HK on ledge, I complained about ammo before but this time it was fine, found out you should spam HK's with BFG then when half are dead as a result of using all the cells outside, you have just enough space to dive to the side and rush onto the ledge to claim all the rocket ammo and spam from that position.

The HK army + Cyber army in cage I actually made that pretty managable with a neat luring technique, staying on one side waiting for the HK's to corner me then having just enough room to dive through horde at the outer edges. Part 3 gets progessively easier in my experience compared to the rest of the map which is strange after beating the first cavern fight with Revs + Cacos + Arachnotrons + AV's on Marble pillars that's still tricky. However the second one with Revs in that central platform + Cacos + HK's is laughably easy, just lure the HK's out, circle strafe and spam BFG, no real pressure or cause for concern.

Last area gives you tons of ammo to go nuts with, didn't need to use the Invul, sure it's their just to congratulate you thus far.

In conclusion, definitely found it easier compared to first playthrough due to somehow finding better strategies quickly, still think people overexaggerate the difficulty due to not knowing correct tactics so they pass it off as impossible/luck based in conjunction with the obvious skill ceiling being meant for a select few players.

However I think the main issue of difficulty stems from the bare minimum amount of health given just to ensure survival but allows for no fuck ups, meaning you have to play near flawlessly taking no more then 3/4 hits, especially as their's a lack of armor in many areas with just Meds/Soulspheres to patch you up.

Old Post Dec 14 2015 00:51 #
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Demonologist
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Bloodite Krypto said:
their's no reliable strategy, you have to be flawless taking minimum damage same with the previous area with the Revenant rush in the slime. No cover and no room to move with no health, you need to have excellent close quarter dodging skills

This statement seems to be quite an accurate description of what the main deterring factor in this map is. It's not exactly impossible (but I will never, ever, try to calculate just how many aeons will pass until some poor condemned soul is able to beat it without savegames, even savescumming requires some serious dedication, probably dictated by the lack of better activity), but it is ridiculously overdone in each and every aspect by disregarding all limits of sanity and common sense even in hardcore realms, and this is why it's pretty much impossible to take it seriously. A jokewad pulled off by a bored doomgod to troll unfun people that take everything too seriously.

Old Post Dec 14 2015 09:16 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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*yawn* If you don't like long and grindy maps this isn't for you, cool your post translates to I'm not good enough to play this map so I'll make up nonsensical theories about it being impossible even going to the extent of calling it a jokewad despite having no experience playing it myself, not bad.

Also if you read the post I was referring to only those two sections in particular having no cover and no room to move, not the entirity of the map.

Old Post Dec 14 2015 10:01 #
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