Back to Saturn X E1: we love fixing bugs

We had a full rotation of gameplay on a server I hosted up, though it was cooperative instead of survival and was hosted with Samsara. There was a good bunch of confusion amongst us, especially around the first half. The flow feels sort of broken with loads of backtracking and most of the areas looking mostly alike. We had to resort to looking up places the automap a lot.

Though, the new textures and color space create a whole new immersive world. It astonishes me what you can do with vanilla compat when you give it enough ambition, inspiration and dedication. I just wish the flow wasn't as lacking.

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Hmm. There are only a couple of maps in the entire wad that I can imagine getting lost in. Most of them really hold the player's hand throughout -- I have the navigational ability of a flea, so I usually insist that maps accommodate my stupidity there.

A lot of work was put into layout flow enhancement and revision in many of these levels, so I'm surprised to hear of anyone having major issues with it (outside of the couple of massive nonlinear levels, like map15).

Though there aren't going to be any major changes at this point, if there are any specific places you're getting lost, it would be more informative to actually describe them. :P

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esselfortium said:

Though there aren't going to be any major changes at this point, if there are any specific places you're getting lost, it would be more informative to actually describe them. :P

Map 07's blue key switch took me 5 minutes or so of running around the map and revisiting everything two or three times before I finally spotted it, but it was good because I could see everything again! Favourite map so far.

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Playing a megawad for the first time in coop mode definitely makes things multiple times more confusing than playing them single player. Could be why the levels are confusing some people.

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RottKing said:

Playing a megawad for the first time in coop mode definitely makes things multiple times more confusing than playing them single player. Could be why the levels are confusing some people.


I was just going to suggest this. A lot of maps use cues like monsters appearing in the direction you're supposed to head and you may not notice them if you've fallen behind or if you're distracted watching what your partners are doing.

That being said there are a couple of huge, non-linear maps where navigability can be an issue, although we've really tried to make them as straightforward as possible.

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Once again, thanks Essel and co for releasing this today. Just about done with map 12. I remember seeing a screenshot from this level a year ago on the teaser ads put out, looks like since then, it's moved from episode 3 to episode 1. This level might be one of my favorites, very large and non-linear. I love the detail on it as well.

Now that the cat's out of the bag and we know this is only the first third of the project, how many levels total will there be (including secrets)?

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I'd hate to say it but I found this to be very difficult starting at map05 while on UV, especially the room with the cyberdemon, multiple revenants and an archvile while I could barely find anymore ammo when almost running out, I then tried a lower difficulty and still found it to be quite difficult, I didn't really expect this to be a somewhat difficult wad. :P

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I got stuck in map21 with prplus -complevel 2, after pressing line 4583, sectors 695 and 857 blocked me.

FDAs for 14-22. I died three times and skipped the map each time.

I agree that the maps are a bit confusing. They're big, there's backtracking, and so far they all look very similar. But I don't care about that and haven't had to use doom builder to progress.

Why no deep water?

Can you put monsters in the hub maps? :)

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Here's the Modded Doom2+ I promised. 512K lump stack with 32 MB zone heap. Use this if you wanna go vanilla but hate the constant loading. Also forces OPL3 mode if you choose SoundBlaster.
be sure to SET DMXOPTION="-opl3-phase"

http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/files/get/mS1_NuJiME/doom32.7z

TimeOfDeath said:

Why no deep water?

From what I saw of testing (years ago) sometimes effects could break with that, especially if you died in it.

TimeOfDeath said:

Can you put monsters in the hub maps? :)


They're there. They're just dead.

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TimeOfDeath said:
imo, the number is more important than the name, so the name should be sacrificed. The number actually means something for cleving and knowing how far into the wad you are. The name is just fluff.

I agree the number is essential, more so if the music is changed, removing any last hint of the original level slot. What I do with WADs with longer names is use shorter derived names that make sense. After all, even DOOM and DOOM II have some differences between the automap and intermission names (Limbo/Gate to Limbo, 'O' of Destruction/Circle of Death).

I attached a ZIP with my dbimpact.deh and an edited one for BTSX.

Csonicgo said:
Here's the Modded Doom2+ I promised. 512K lump stack with 32 MB zone heap. Use this if you wanna go vanilla but hate the constant loading. Also forces OPL3 mode if you choose SoundBlaster.
be sure to SET DMXOPTION="-opl3-phase"

Cool. Could you release these hacks separately or in some format like Cracker (used with Doom+)? If not, it's much harder to apply these by themselves or combine them with other stuff.

Does the lump stack limit affect BTSX? (I already use a 32 MB zone heap).

deh.zip

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0.99e update posted, including a critical bugfix for map21 (my bad), a gameplay bugfix for map07, coop bugs fixed in map15, a WISLASH lump (thanks Gez), and some various other less-important fixes. Hopefully the issues haven't already ruined everyone's enjoyment :P

0.99e: Clickengett!

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myk said:

Cool. Could you release these hacks separately or in some format like Cracker (used with Doom+)? If not, it's much harder to apply these by themselves or combine them with other stuff.

Does the lump stack limit affect BTSX? (I already use a 32 MB zone heap).


well, yes and no. During development it helped a lot. If the stack wasn't increased, the game woudl actually eat into lower memory. now, it's just insurance.

I have the tables somewhere of what I changed, with xttl's help.

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Csonicgo said:

Here's the Modded Doom2+ I promised. 512K lump stack with 32 MB zone heap. Use this if you wanna go vanilla but hate the constant loading.

What are you talking about? Is it too slow? I'm at level 3 or 4, it works fine, just with e6y's official hack.

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printz said:

What are you talking about? Is it too slow? I'm at level 3 or 4, it works fine, just with e6y's official hack.


For those playing it on DOS, at least back in development we noticed the heap being constantly cycled with texture data. this helps clear a lot of that up. It does make a difference on retro setups with (slow) hard disk drives.

Now to the real reason:

I compiled alpha compilations during development and played them through my Pentium 200's CD-ROM Drive. This was to help in loading (and keeping) resources because reading from CD-ROM is SLOW, and I did not have a HDD that could take the development WAD at the time.

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man, people are making quality wads faster than I can play them...

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First ten maps are rather interesting just like Evilution meets Alien Vendetta. However this have same fate as Reverie in Chocolate Doom with "Bad V_DrawPatch" upon F1/Help screen which is quite strange to me.

Edit: I also got that with Doom2.exe in Final Doom version which is even more strange because it loads all doom2 help screens correctly except ultimate doom ones but that is reasonable. Not a problem with the things like maps itself so it's not that noticeable.

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Csonicgo said:

For those playing it on DOS, at least back in development we noticed the heap being constantly cycled with texture data. this helps clear a lot of that up. It does make a difference on retro setups with (slow) hard disk drives.

Now to the real reason:

I compiled alpha compilations during development and played them through my Pentium 200's CD-ROM Drive. This was to help in loading (and keeping) resources because reading from CD-ROM is SLOW, and I did not have a HDD that could take the development WAD at the time.

Oh, I'm using DOSBox, maybe that helps make it more secure?

GBT3 said:

First ten maps are rather interesting just like Evilution meets Alien Vendetta. However this have same fate as Reverie in Chocolate Doom with "Bad V_DrawPatch" upon F1/Help screen which is quite strange to me.

Weird. Does it have something to do with wrong HELP lump? Doom vs Doom 2.

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RottKing said:

Playing a megawad for the first time in coop mode definitely makes things multiple times more confusing than playing them single player. Could be why the levels are confusing some people.

That could be it, I suppose.

I just remembered, too, that on the said coop run I was blasted out of the window by an archvile at the exit area of MAP06. It was quite a funky experience though, I don't get blasted out of windows by archviles often!

EDIT: Also, the midi for MAP11 is a masterpiece.

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All the maps play and look great, though I didn't think any of the maps were particuarly unique.

Except the last map; they all played and looked the same as each other etc etc.

On Map10, I ended up with thing 197 (Arachnotron), right next to the blue key not waking up allowing me to grab the key from right under him; might want to move him so his line of sight covers the east approach as well as the north in case a player doesn't fire a shot in the right area.

On Map12, there are a couple of mobjs stuck in the wall and outside the map respectively: Thing 415 (Imp) and 558 (Box of Shells).

On Map13, there is a 3d start. I also thought thing 418 (Arachnotron) not waking up when viewed from sector 688 (that area), due to the block sound lines in the area, was a bit strange looking.

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Csonicgo said:

From what I saw of testing (years ago) sometimes effects could break with that, especially if you died in it.

I think deep water is worth the occasional brief HOM when bobbing too low. Probably isn't even noticeable if the water is really shallow, unless you die (but those are the sort of hallucinations Doomguy experiences when he's dying and gets martian liquid on his visor, anyway).

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Deep water requires self referencing sectors. Those create new segs and visplanes. Nearly every area with water in this project is already seg and visplane pushed as it is.

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I'm just surprised I haven't seen it at all so far. It's totally one of those "just to look cool" effects that would fit in this project.

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Right then, you've left me no bloody choice.

http://forums.zdaemon.org/viewtopic.php?t=15019

Absolutely buzzing for this. I saw the early work on this and fell in love back then. We're running this beaut in this week's Thursday Night Survival so get down and see how it fares against the best survivalist doomers. The server will hold 50 clients, with 25-30 dedicated spectator slots. :)

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Vermil said:

All the maps play and look great, though I didn't think any of the maps were particuarly unique.

Except the last map; they all played and looked the same as each other etc etc.


you're the man, man

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Evolution said:

Right then, you've left me no bloody choice.

http://forums.zdaemon.org/viewtopic.php?t=15019

Absolutely buzzing for this. I saw the early work on this and fell in love back then. We're running this beaut in this week's Thursday Night Survival so get down and see how it fares against the best survivalist doomers. The server will hold 50 clients, with 25-30 dedicated spectator slots. :)

Awesome, hope it goes well! I can't really imagine 20 players not being a total mess, though, haha.

As Memfis mentioned in the thread there, though, it's not going to work correctly with the sprite wad you have loaded due to palette differences. Monsters and stuff will get lots of random colored dots all over them, probably not what you're intending ;)

Tango said:

Vermil said:

All the maps play and look great, though I didn't think any of the maps were particuarly unique.

Except the last map; they all played and looked the same as each other etc etc.

you're the man, man

Tango he meant the black square box room level after yours, you silly!

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The way I see it, I think you guys should apply at Id and work on Doom 4! This is truly great!

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