Back to Saturn X E1: 1.1.1 released with bugfixes, argh

DoomUK said:

Doomsday also doesn't care for it, but the bug manifests itself a little differently


Way back in the 1.9 betas, as part of the rewrite for Doomsday 2, all support for Vanilla rendering hacks was removed from Doomsday, in order to rewrite the code.

Unfortunetly, after all this time, that is still very largely the case; rewriting other code took and is taking precedence. I mean not even support for the deep water rendering hack has been added back in yet.

I think I've actually said something along the lines of the above several times over the years, in various places, actually :p

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There's also -solo-net for anyone finding UV too easy, though the coop items and monsters were of course geared primarily for, well, coop. :p

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I wonder if the issue with the help pages crashing Chocolate Doom and Vanilla, is because the right edge of the menu pointer graphic, goes outside the screen boundary?

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That's what it was determined to probably be, yeah. :\ I don't really have much familiarity with the issue. Do you know if it can be fixed without major changes to the menu graphics?

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esselfortium said:

That's what it was determined to probably be, yeah. :\ I don't really have much familiarity with the issue. Do you know if it can be fixed without major changes to the menu graphics?


You shouldn't have to change the graphic at all; the BTS arrow is actually smaller than the original skull.

The problem is that the BTS arrow is offset a fair bit to the right (i.e it's offset by -10 on the X axis) in the wad, enough to push it over the boundary.

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Re: Mapping hacks not supported in Doomsday

The current situation is that some are supported and others (arguably the most common ones, like so-called "deep water") are not.

Historically Doomsday made some incorrect assumptions about the game data and then ran with them, ingraining them into the whole architecture.

I have personally been working to address these design decisions since I joined the project many moons ago. Addressing these issues has and is taking time, largely because I was not satisfied with the existing solutions seen in other ports.

However, I do think that Doomsday has made significant progress and that today we have a far greater success rate.

I expect this work will be concluded for the Doomsday 1.9.11 release.

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Phobus said:

@ToD: When it feels like it's ticking a quota or the encounters aren't particularly stand out, yes :P Metal Mothers has no cyberdemons due to its enemy theming and I certainly think that's quite refreshing!

...ticking a quota on making a funner map :)

What is map07's enemy theme anyway? It doesn't have barons, cacos, hell knights, lost souls and pain elementals either.

There are 5329 monsters in the wad on UV (excluding lost souls) and <10 cybers.

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TimeOfDeath said:

What is map07's enemy theme anyway? It doesn't have barons, cacos, hell knights, lost souls and pain elementals either.

The theme is "metal mothers".

Doom II manual said:

You guess the Arachnotrons had to come from somewhere. Hi, mom.

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TimeOfDeath said:

And why does that mean you can't put cybers in the map?

Are you saying there's not many cybers in the WAD? Fear not! Wait for Episode Deux! ;-)

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A particular map in E3 will surely make up for the apparent lack of Cybers in E1 :)

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Mechadon said:

All maps in E3 will surely make up for the apparent lack of Cybers in E1 :)

COOL :)

Btw, what's the deal. You guys keep talking about ep2 and ep3. Are they already finished or still too early for an ETA?

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TimeOfDeath said:

COOL :)

Btw, what's the deal. You guys keep talking about ep2 and ep3. Are they already finished or still too early for an ETA?

Kind of finished with the exception of a few maps nearing completion. AFAIK, this episode is being worked on for a proper release first before moving on to the following episodes.

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The other episodes are well underway and have most of their maps completed (well, e3 a bit less so than e2), but it'll be a while still. We were originally planning on releasing the episodes within a week or two of each other, after having completed all of them, but I massively underestimated the amount of work it would take to get an episode ready for release. (And even then I managed to screw up enough things in the final-day workrush that we needed a billion embarrassing hotfixes :P)

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I pistol-start all the maps and found it to be much more challenging and entertaining. most of the maps gives you a shotgun right on the start point anyway so it didn't change much of the gameplay but still after finishing this episode I thought it would be way too easy playing the maps with the collected gear from previous maps.

Also map 23 was my favorite, especially the midi track.

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Vermil said:

Way back in the 1.9 betas, as part of the rewrite for Doomsday 2, all support for Vanilla rendering hacks was removed from Doomsday, in order to rewrite the code.

Unfortunetly, after all this time, that is still very largely the case; rewriting other code took and is taking precedence. I mean not even support for the deep water rendering hack has been added back in yet.

I think I've actually said something along the lines of the above several times over the years, in various places, actually :p

Fair enough. These minor problems didn't detract the fun I had with BTSX, anyway. It would be nice if they were addressed someday, but it's not like Doomsday is my only option of source port even if it's my personal favourite.

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SFoZ911 said:

Also map 23 was my favorite, especially the midi track.


you're the man, man

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I see "Shareware Episode" in OP's picture.
Does it mean that you will release remaining two episodes for $ like ID did ?

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Sokoro said:

I see "Shareware Episode" in OP's picture.
Does it mean that you will release remaining two episodes for $ like ID did ?


No. It's just a sorta-witty way of saying more BTSX wads are coming.

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esselfortium said:

To be honest, if MAP01 didn't do anything for you, you're probably not very likely to get much out of the rest of the wad. It's an episode of techbases. A lot of different kinds of techbases, and IMO there's a lot of creativity in their gameplay setups and layout progressions and visual designs, but they're techbases and that's the whole intent for this episode.


I never said I disliked the map because it was a techbase: I don't have anything against techbase maps. Actually, some of my favorite wads, such as Memento Mori II and Suspended in Dusk, mostly consist of techbases. The problem I had with Map01 was that there weren't many traps, rooms, pieces of architecture, puzzles, etc. that seemed particularity memorable, original, or creative.

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Processingcontrol said:

The problem I had with Map01 was that there weren't many traps, rooms, pieces of architecture, puzzles, etc. that seemed particularity memorable, original, or creative.

care to mention some megawad map01's with particularly memorable architecture, clever puzzles or nasty traps? i'm genuinely interested, because most openers tend to be rather brief and easy intros. actually... the ssg trap in btsx_e1 map01 is overwhelmingly nasty for a map01. and i really like the impressive look of the BK courtyard.

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Beginner said:

Awkward 100% kills solo-net demos for version 99d with -complevel 2.
Little bugs: I couldn't get 100% kills on map05 because Thing 480 didn't woke up at all. Plus I couldn't score 100% kills on map07 because 4 arachnotrons(things 50-52, 107) failed to teleport because sector 839 didn't lower at all.

Be sure to update to 0.99e before you get to map21 -- you won't be able to exit otherwise, due to a stupid mistake I made while implementing a last-minute feature.

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dew said:

care to mention some megawad map01's with particularly memorable architecture, clever puzzles or nasty traps?


Community Chest 3?

On that note, this wad is brilliant. Hats off to all involved, I'm super excited about e2 and e3. The texture artwork is some of the best I've ever seen, and the music... Yeah freaking awesome.

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Just finished it. Favourite levels were 3, 7, 21 and 31. Overall feeling was some sort of mix of Doom64 and Quake2. Think I'll play this again sometime.

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The first map is way too long and complex for me. It also contains a lot of nukage and the secrets are really tricky. Well, I found only one, even though I desperately humped a lot of walls.

But fortunately, the next few maps were much better in comparison to map01. They were shorter and more action-packed, I particularly enjoyed the skillsaw map. I must give Vanguard or Lunatic a shot as soon as possible.

As I've been playing this in Chocolate Doom, I kind of get an impression that these maps were designed to be played in OpenGL source ports, amirite? They look very good, but I feel like the vanilla engine doesn't do justice to them. It's awesome they are vanilla-compatible at all. I'm not a big fan of the music, though the tracks for map02 and map03 are pretty good. Still not a patch on Icarus or Hell Revealed II in terms of music.

That being said, it's probably going to be the best megawad I've played since Alien Vendetta.

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MAP01 has a lot of secrets and side areas for optional exploration, but they generally loop back around to the main path. In any case, if you go straight ahead and never set foot in nukage you'll get to the exit very quickly.

These maps were primarily tested in Chocolate Doom and other software-rendered ports, but they should look good in any port that doesn't break the special effects.

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