Doom the Way Id Did: The Lost Episodes [v1.666]

myk said:

The issue is that on one the secret map is reached from E4M2 and the other from E2M5. The level will likely be too tough for one or too weak for the other. At least new weapon placement tends to be an issue there. But now that you say that (or maybe this is what you implied), since ZDoom and Eternity are very customizable, it should be easy to make the secret level work from E4M5!


TBH, I'd much rather edit the map than move the whole shebang to E2, especially considering the secret level situation. Speaking of, I do vaguely remember seeing the General's submission, so I'm not sure how I missed it. Thanks for the re-link! Needless to say, that'll solve one of the "secret map missing!" issues for now. ;)

For the record, there -is- a WIP map scheduled for the last secret map slot. It's just on hold currently for various reasons. :P

Also, Thanks for the DEH and XG submissions -- I'm not too well-versed in the Doomsday arts and since it doesn't yet support additional ExMx's, I may wait on that unless you (Vermil) would be up for doing the edits to E6 yourself (or at least check my work) so that it'll work once support gets there. None of the E6 maps have been edited since the first release yet (aside from a ZMAPINFO tweak :P ) so they're free for modding.

Also, I just re-realized that I haven't yet added screenshots. For shame!

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myk: How would you rate the difficulties of the secret maps as being too tough or too weak. The original E4 had fantastically difficult gameplay right from the getgo so that argument is just weak. If the map is easy, then the player earned an easy map for finding it.

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If your map (or whichever acts as the secret) introduces powerful weapons not available till later, it'll make the E4 version easier than the E2 version. If any care was put into level-by-level progression (not something Thy Flesh Consumed excels at, if you ask me) it may be worsened in one or both cases.

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I think E4M1 by captn toenail had some later revisions done but looking at the DTWID submission site only the first version is there. It fixed some things with the switch to the bridge being accessible from the other side of the midgrate.

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Myk: Yeah I agree, E4 doesn't have a good level progression, but for some reason, that's why it's a fun, challenging episode. We never expect one of the hardest maps to be the second one. Then we get a few "breaks" and aren't ready for e4m6 when it comes. Anyway, we'll figure out what to do with the map. I can change it too if necessary.

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Aha, I see that "Dark Passage" was my recent standalone posted to /idgames named "The Damned" since I forgot who helped me as collab mappers.

Cool stuff and lots of interesting maps here.

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This may be of interest to anyone who wants to play dtwid-le in ZDaemon or host a server with it:

--- Doom the Way id Did: The Lost Episodes v1.0 fix for ZDaemon (Release 2)

This wad contains the MAPINFO lump for ZDaemon so that specials work and levels
that use them get properly exited. The cluster end screens have been left out
to make the behaviour consistent with the rest of the episodes in ZDaemon and to
make advancing to the last episodes through gameplay possible. Proper map names
and music are now also used for episode 5 and episode 6.

USAGE: Just load this wad as another pwad.

You can reach the additional episodes by either playing through the game or by
issuing the 'map eXmY' command in the console where 'X' is the number of the
episode and 'Y' is the number of the map.

UPDATE (2013-01-08): Release 2 fixes the problem, which was mentioned earlier in this thread, with e6m3 being impossible to finish

Download: dtwid-le_v10_zdfix_r2.zip

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Xaser said:

Also, Thanks for the DEH and XG submissions -- I'm not too well-versed in the Doomsday arts and since it doesn't yet support additional ExMx's


Dday is suppose to support addition ExMx's just like ZDoom, so I assume it will be fixed.

Stick the XG in a lump called DD_DEFNS or XGDATA or create a ded file.

Then it's just a matter of sticking the required linetype; 10000, 10001, 10002 or 10004, on the map, like you would any Vanilla Doom trigger.

One doesn't need to place 10003 on the map because it is chained (i.e linked to by) to 10001 and 10002.

None of them need to be tagged to anything as 10000 and 10004 are set up to automatically work on any sector with a tag of 666, while 10001 and 10002 don't need a tag to work.

Vanilla Doom can handle unknown line types, so they shouldn't cause any issue in it or any other port unless the other port has added hardcoded linetypes with those numbers; XG lines are not hardcoded, so you can change the numbers to whatever you want (i.e change 10000 to 5432, if you wished).

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I think there might be a switch in e2m4 that doesn't work. It's the one that's raised up in the lower right section of the map.

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Yeah, my Episode 4 maps were updated to fix bugs and other problems, this wad seems to be using the old originals. Problem is I don't know if I have the updated wad files... if I did they would be on the family desktop - which is still hidden in a box somewhere since I moved house a few months ago. :/

The most notable problem is the switch on e4m1 of course, as you can press it through the cage wall giving access to the exit straight away! At the very least this should be patched.

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These maps are great! I've only been mapping for a few months, and the quality of these maps give me aspiration to get good enough and hopefully add some maps of my own to your projects.

By the way, each level should list its author in the map screen after the map title. I could just keep windowing the game to read, but I just can't be bothered when I'm already immersed in the game.

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Traversd, can you either post v4 of e4m1 here or send it to Xaser, I no longer have the file. The changes you made were really good and it would be a shame to lose them. Thanks.

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I don't know why, but I really find the lost episodes more engaging and memorable than DTWID. The puzzles might not be quite on par in LE but it has something that I can't put my finger on that makes it just a little more fun. I especially enjoyed Base Instinct, partially because you play so long without switching from the pistol so it makes it seem more useful for a longer period of time.

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For the record, I've got both 40's and Toenail/traversd's updated maps in the wad -- thanks for the update! Good to see the NW area in Science Facility polished up some -- I always did felt that part was unfinished.

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I was just about to ask how to access the secret exit in E3M6; it was surrounded by single-sided walls to out-of-map areas. Then I found that there is no E3M9 included (yet)... I hope it will be.

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Source-port related issue? Starting a new game in Episode 5 "Base Instinct" in Risen3D 2.2.0-18/19, it starts in "E5M0: Starport". But as far as I read in the mapinfo, E5M0 is supposed to be a secret level...

And the secret exit in "E5M1: Landing Zone" does not lead to "E5M0: Starport" as defined, but to "E5M9: Phobos Garrison".

Probably a limitation in Risen3D.

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Zandronum doesn't seem to want to show the fifth and sixth episodes on the episode list.

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Possible trap in E5M3:

Sector 405 opens as door only from the outside, because the inner line is already a teleport action to sector 367. When you return to sector 406 after the door closed, you are caught in the teleport bay which doesn't open anymore.
__

Another issue when playing in Risen3D:

There is a HOM below the normal exit sign in the staircase (sector 179), when you look from the sides (sectors 89 or 172).

This is a strange construction, the exit sign seems to be related to the second-next stair above (sector 129). Its floor appears to be raised and floating above the one of the surrounding sector 127.
__

E5M4:

Is passing line 1001 (in front of the west-most teleporter) supposed to lower walls with tag 11 (sectors 158, 162, 163)? In Risen3D it doesn't happen.

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Probably for the same reason, Episode 6 ends with E6M8, Risen3D doesn't know about advancing to E6M9.

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Does Risen3D have any sort of MAPINFO-like system? I'm all for supporting the extra episodes in more ports, but it seems as if its current method of doing things is auto-constructing episodes if the lumps are present (which is problematic because of secret map progression).

This is actually still being worked on, BTW. There's a new map in (well, three, actually; two are replacements of already-released maps) and a few others that have been overhauled for quality purposes. Plus fixes all across the board. The set is close enough to a proper wad rather than an overflow pack that it feels like a sin to leave it as such. :P

tl;dr: v1.1 will come eventually. :P

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Xaser said:

Does Risen3D have any sort of MAPINFO-like system?


It is supposedly compatible with the old ZDoom syntax and with Doomsday's map definitions.

The Tome of Knowledge should hold all the needed pointers.

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E1M2 is quite a bit harder than I should like, otherwise not bad level. could simply use more health.

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Well, I mailed Abbs already earlier. So I hope it will be handled in cooperation and exchange.

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Gez said:

Doomsday's map definitions.

Ah, that's good. I was worried a bit about compatibility, but I'm planning on doing DEDs at some point so hopefully it can be made to work on both. Really don't feel like downgrading the ZDoom mapinfo, though I might end up doing that anyway for ZDaemon/Zandronum since ZDoom is smart enough to ignore MAPINFO if ZMAPINFO is present.

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LigH said:

Another issue when playing in Risen3D:

E5M3:

There is a HOM below the normal exit sign in the staircase (sector 179), when you look from the sides (sectors 89 or 172).

This is a strange construction, the exit sign seems to be related to the second-next stair above (sector 129). Its floor appears to be raised and floating above the one of the surrounding sector 127.
__

E5M4:

Is passing line 1001 (in front of the west-most teleporter) supposed to lower walls with tag 11 (sectors 158, 162, 163)? In Risen3D it doesn't happen.


None of these are Risen3D issues. They are map construction errors.

E5M3 ... To fix change the floor height of sector 251 to 72 and assign the back-sides of lines 546, 544, 540 and 1414 to sector 179

E5M4 ... The action/type for line 1001 should have been W1, not S1, so changing to linetype/action 19 will fix this.

EDIT ...

Looking at E5M1 and E5M0 via DB2, I see that it is possible for the player to go back and forth between these levels ad infinitum. I suspect this was not intended ?

Also, ZMAPINFO primarily has SKY4 for E6, while EMAPINFO states SKY3 and EMAPINFO has for music E6M5 and E5M5 for those respective map names.

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Just finished it. The maps were of varying quality, but what I intend to mention is that episode 4, nearly all the maps, could have been included in the release as a replacement for the original ep. 4. Also, Cold Steel - E5M7, is probably the only E2 style map in existence I actually friggin' like (including the originals).

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