tl;dr to follow
Just to play devil's advocate, I can understand someone lying in order to receive a million dollar inheritance or lying about a crime they committed to avoid jail time, but going to this much trouble, with irish songwriters and 11 year old french girls, just to get attention for a few random maps. It is so far fetched that it still might just be true, in spite of all the inconsistencies. See, the thing is, if I wanted to promote my maps like that, I could just tell you guys that I had an 11 year old daughter who did them. Which is something that would be virtually impossible for you guys to disprove, except by making assumptions and arguing until these assumptions appear true. So why bother with all this 'french girl' stuff and 'irish girl' stuff if it isn't true if I could just tell you some non-existent daughter did them? Much tougher to prove this.
Yeah I freely admit I could be wrong. I know I am carrying this 'innocent until proven guilty thing a looong way here, but that is how things are supposed to be, rather than this 'trial-by-forum, thing we have going on here.
It is funny how, when enough people come to believe something, that something takes on a momentum all of its own, and whether it is true or not kind of gets lost in the momentum of the argument.
Man, there are people I have never seen before posting on this thread. Talk about coming out of the woodwork! How does that work? I could start a conspiracy theory about our forum regulars creating dummy accounts so they can troll more. Again, this is very unlikely, but this is the internet, so anything is possible.
Though even me, who was inclined to accept Little Temple's story as 'certainly way out there but still perfectly possible', is finding it a challenge to accept the young girl mistranslating things intentionally. That part isn't sitting with me very well. And some things that essel and others have pointed out are certainly plausible and consistent. Not conclusive, but certainly plausible.
Though is it so far beyond the bounds of possibility that an 11 year old girl could be so gifted, even with the inconsistencies in the story? You guys all know that if you get three witnesses to a car accident, you are going to get three pretty different versions of what was a genuinely true event. Maybe just me, but there is still a possibility that everything that is going on here can be attributed to these differing perspectives. The assumption is that other people will work and think in the same way that we would in those same circumstances is a common one.
Anyway, this is all subjective on my part, and is just my 2c worth.
You are correct in saying that anyone who gives up mapping because someone yells at them didn't have that much passion for it in the first place. This I agree with completely, and neither you or I will give up mapping for that reason.
It doesn't matter where the maps come from, exactly. (Well apart from the mapper's age, because I am going to judge a map by an 11 year-old a lot different than I would judge a map normally - which would be harmful to the whole constructive feedback thing)If LittleTemple wants to make maps, good. I'd be more than happy for him/her/them/whatever to continue to make maps, and provided they are honest about where they came from, I'd be happy to criticize them.
Unfortunately, Little Temple's posting style makes many of the very people you say it would be helpful to criticize their maps, not want to play their maps. And with it already being hard enough to get people to try "amateur" projects further agitating people by having what appear to be schizophrenic arguments with yourself on the forums, is not a good thing. Heck half the people who jumped on the DTS-T bashing bandwagon never played it and only experienced it because they watched me play it as they couldn't be bothered to play a subpar mapset to criticize it.
But that's not why Little Temple deserved to be bluntly told off, it's lying about an 11 year-old making maps. Not only does it shift the standards by which someone judges the maps, preventing honest and helpful criticism. It also makes even less people want to play their work. I think child mappers are really interesting, especially since I didn't start mapping until my mid-twenties (which is the only reason my first maps aren't total garbage), so it really pisses me off when someone lies about the age of a mapper for whatever reason, further compounded by Little Temple's refusal to admit when they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar, means that I honestly don't care about civility. If someone is willing to give up mapping because someone yelled at them, then obviously they didn't have that much passion for it in the first place.
But, and this is why I am so against this trolling of noobs, often when someone is just starting out, they don't actually know whether they have a passion for mapping or not. They are just trying it out. And whether they receive encouragement or trolling on these forums will determine whether that fledgling experimentation will turn into a genuine passion for mapping. Passion doesn't always start huge, it can grow from very small things, and this is where we lose so many potential mappers. You have an obvious talent for mapping, and you seem like you have the confidence to believe in your mapping skills also. That is a good thing. I remember you mentioning that your father was a mapper/modder of some sort, so you probably received encouragement from him when you started doing this. Don't underestimate how much that has probably helped you. Most people when they start out do not receive encouragement like that, and whether they persevere or not will be up to us here on these forums, rather than people they immediately know.
On another note, reading through my post to you last night, I realise I was doing the very thing I was accusing you of doing, ie, being rude and blunt, and not adding all that much to the discussion. So respect to you for replying to my post quite reasonably and my apologies for my bluntness.
That said, my point still stands, and I still think we would be better off just ignoring all of this, and just letting LittleTemple map in whichever form they choose.
Last edited by KiiiYiiiKiiiA on Feb 6 2013 at 05:47