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Doomkid

DM Revival - MANAGEMENT HELP NEEDED

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Doomkid92 said:

What exactly is the CChest setup, anyway? By that I mean, how do they handle quality-control? Is there some sort of elimination process?

Sure thing. What port, and whats your online name? I'll join in!


Tbh, I had absolutely squat to do with development for any sort of Community Chest project thus far. Though I know from experience (of the most shameful kind), that they chop lousy maps.

They do quality control (at least they did a lot of it in volumes 3 and 4, I hadn't even heard of this forum when 1 and 2 came out) And there is some chop-chop. But the remark about this being a sort of CCDM is that (through the magic of research) I noticed that this project is coming to be because...well just because. A bunch of people wanted to make maps for a genre of doom but had no big project to tack them on to. So, voila. It even has the trying to be vanilla,"but totally isnt" vibe going on.

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I would rather see 20 good maps released initially and have the remainder added in as they become perfected/deemed worthy of inclusion. The downside to this is that not everyone will be pleased. But if you are going to do this right, then there will need to be a certain amount of Quality Control exerted and peoples' feelings may be hurt. It's nothing personal; as DM has some fairly well known "rules of design" established and a good DM map is less subjective than a good single player map. Map flow and connectivity should be the dominant focus, followed by visuals and then experimentation as a last resort. The weaker maps and/or the more experimental maps can be worked on privately with the team reviewing them frequently; becoming perfected for later inclusion. Eternal Doom was built in a similar manner; with 12 maps initially, then 20, then the rest being added. (I have the count wrong I think but my point remains)

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doomguy93 said:

To Enzo03:

Very good maps. I like the detailing a lot. It should be great for deathmatching.

Thanks.

Doomkid92 said:

I think a few items could afford to be added in / switched around, but overall these both look really nice. The second map is a beast! Definitely a suitable LMS zone.

Regarding things added in or switched around, how do you mean?

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Here's the latest version of SpatterDM. It's mostly functional, though quite ugly in the southern parts of the map. I know that the BFG is unreachable right now; just haven't figured out a good way to do that---suggestions welcomed. Ammo balance, item placement, etc is untested. I can see the map being broken into two sections as well--the skin cavern section and the central ledges and library section. I'll get back to this after I work on my 2nd entry.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfq94sknq2u8y34/spatterdm.wad?v=0mcn

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Why can't this wad be over 32 maps?
It's possible to do into the amount up to infinite maps (map00-map1547)

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It is possible, sure. But who would want to play 50 maps with some decent playing ones among dozens of mediocre at best ones, when there are sets out there with a dozen or so maps, but all of them play well.

This strives to be more like the latter, with a smaller amount of higher quality maps, with room to add more later.

It is not as if this is the last hurrah of doom itself. There is time enough for other maps to be seen.

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TheMionicDonut said:

It is not as if this is the last hurrah of doom itself. There is time enough for other maps to be seen.

Just what Mionic said :) This project has generated a lot of interest, so a second one down the track is a high possibility.

I'm sorry for the lack of updates lately! (Here comes some typical escuses) Between work, studying, my band and relationship issues, there's a buttload of things to focus on all at once. Yes, the next beta still comes out in 2 days!

The improvements to all of the incomplete maps have been great. Many narrow corridors have been widened, texture issues fixed (but not totally, I could use some help!) and a bunch of other ironed out bugs.

After this beta, there will be a voting process. The plans have stayed the same after all the feedback I've gotten - If you don't want to cast a vote in public, simply PM me with your thoughts. I'm hoping to hear back from everyone by May 10th with your votes, opinions and suggestions.

Once the voting process is complete, DMR will be at about 90%. After that any needed polish, texturing, etc. will be added to the remaining maps, slap the finalised music and MAPINFO lumps together, and we'll be smooth sailing.

Huzzah!

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I'm really surprised that this project has gotten this far in such a short amount of time. I'm sure that DMR will get quite a bit of recognition from the doom community once it is done and available for download. I think it would be a good idea to play test each level with bots while recording it, then post the videos on youtube. That is probably the best way to make this deathmatch megawad well known.

doomkid92, I have some pretty cool recorded gun sounds that you can use for replacement of the old sounds. :)

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Good stuff DG93, send those sounds my way! If there's one sound in Doom I've never really liked, it's the pistol/chaingun sound. It's more like the world's smallest snare drum than a gunshot.

So what we've got together in the upcoming beta is 36 maps. They've all been vastly improved from where they started, though there is still much detailing to be done, and they each have specific little nit-picks that need to be fixed up, for example the ability to jump out of the maps "border" and be stuck in an outdoor sky area.

Agaures has submitted a map in UDMF, which won't run in Zdaemon - For the time being, there's a simplified version of this map present, but it's still being tuned-up so it will be more like the original version.

The majority of texture issues have been fixed up, I'm glad to say. A new version of map07 is still in the works, so those remaining errors will be fixed up. Map10, bobvorn's map, still uses a ton of mixed floor/wall textures and flats - If someone can help me fix this one up, that would be incredible. Or rather, if there's a texture pack out there that adds all "FLATS / Patches", that would be ideal - All of the maps the use floors on the walls would then run perfectly in all ports.

The elimination process for maps is going to be really tough, the main reason being none of these seem bad at all - At least not to me, though I'm not a DM pro, just a DM lover. ;) Naturally since the eliminations haven't happened yet, the map rotation hasn't changed. As others have said, there's a high chance of a "DMR 2" in the future, but we're not there yet. If your map doesn't make it this time around (or you just couldn't get your submission in mon time) keep it around and spiff it up for next season!

Another idea I have is replacing the pistol with a machine gun that isn't quite as good as the chaingun. The thought behind this is to have a little protection in the maps where you have to scramble for a gun. Please let me know wether or not you think this is a good idea! There have been countless times where I've been fragged just because I had nothing to defend myself with, so I really like this plan, but it hasn't been implemented yet.

There are still silly gib sounds at the moment. TMD noted how ridiculous they are, but since then a lot of other members have stated that they love them, so I'm not sure how this tidbit will end up. Some audio files, and the 'machine gun pistol replacement' may just end up as their own separate optional WAD. It's a very small detail, either way.

I think everyone's going to be happy with the upcoming beta, it's definitely leaps and bounds ahead of the last one. :)

edit: @joe and Omega - The new versions are way, way better. Glad to see you guys have been hard at work, the improvements on these two especially are great.

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Lol glad you like them Omegalore. I have more tourettes guy recordings

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Doomkid92 said:

Another idea I have is replacing the pistol with a machine gun that isn't quite as good as the chaingun. The thought behind this is to have a little protection in the maps where you have to scramble for a gun. Please let me know wether or not you think this is a good idea! There have been countless times where I've been fragged just because I had nothing to defend myself with...

Well, if a map has been properly designed - wrt. the locations of weapons and respawn points - then it should rarely be the case that the player has to scramble for a gun. The only situation in which, if these are properly placed, this might happen, is if the player has only picked up a rocket launcher, since with the RL you start with comparatively low ammo. But even then a few well placed rockets can ameliorate this. Also, if you replace the pistol you deny players the glory of getting lucky with it, and spare others the shame of being nailed with the peashooter - these are core DM elements which should not be removed lightly!

Doomkid92 said:

There are still silly gib sounds at the moment. TMD noted how ridiculous they are, but since then a lot of other members have stated that they love them, so I'm not sure how this tidbit will end up.

Just my two cents, but I find 'comedy' sound effects really grating, and given the huge variety in what different people do and do not find funny, I think it's probably best not to try to make a joke in a situation that really doesn't require one.

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The actual gun sound replacements were pretty good,though the rocket launcher needs a little more bass to beef it up(I'm talking a really tiny amount added). Not too keen on the last two sounds--they just strike me as annoying. Nothing else stood out which is a really good sign when doing sound replacements for Doom.

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Ok so here is a description as to what is in the sound .wav wad file. Note it is a mix between voice sounds, explosions, gun sounds, and death sounds. etc...





BEAVIS_CHAINSAW_BREAKINGTHELAW: Cartoon sound of Beavis winding up a chainsaw
DDSBAREX: Barrel explosion sound with a slight echo
DOOM3BFG: Doom3 BFG sound
DOOM3DOUBLEBARRELSHOTGUN: Doom3 doublebarrel shotgun sound
DOOM3SHOTGUN: Doom3 shotgun sound
DS64BFG: Doom 64 BFG sound
DSBAREXP: Barrel explosion
DSBJYEAH: Wolfenstein 3d "yeah!" sound
DSD3CG1: Gun sound pitch 1
DSD3CG2: Gun sound pitch 2
DSD3CG3: Gun sound pitch 3
DSDBCLS: Reload sound for super shotgun
DSDBOPN: Reload sound for super shotgun
DSDBLOAD: Reload sound for super shotgun
DSDSHTGN: Playstation1 super shotgun sound
DSEG1: Gun sound pitch 1
DSEG2: Gun sound pitch 2
DSEG2: Gun sound pitch 3
DSGETPOW: "Excellent" voice sound from Mortal Kombat **could be used for picking up items**
DSGETSOM: "Come get some" voice sound from Duke Nukem 3d
DSKEYUP: Item pick up sound
DSKF7: AK-47 gun sound from Goldeneye N64
DSOOF: "Fight" voice sound from Mortal Kombat
DSPDIEHI: Death scream
DSPISTOL: Pistol/ chaingun gun sound used from my "Horto bellatorem.wad" **I personally like this gun sound a lot.**
DSPLASMA: Doomkid92's plasma gun sound from Revenge of the 90s/ UAC Rebellion. **I like this sound too**
DSPLASMA: Starwars plasma gun sound
DSPLASMA: Doom 3 plasma gun sound
DSPLDETH: Death sound
DSPLPAIN: Quake 2 hurt sound
DSPUNCH: Cooler punch sound
DSRLAUNCH: Rocket Launcher gun sound from Goldeneye N64 **If this sound can be edited with a more ample bass, by all means do it**
DSSAWFUL: Chainsaw sound
DSSAWHIT: Chainsaw sound
DSSAWIDL: Chainsaw sound (idol)
DSSAWUP: Chainsaw sound (winding up)
DSSHOTE: Strong gun fire sound **could be used for pistol/ chaingun or Double barrel shotgun**
DSSHOTGUN: Doomkid92's shotgun sound from Revenge of the 90s **best shotgun sound in my opinion**
DSSLOP: Messy splatter death sound
DSTELEPT: "Get over here!" teleport voice sound from Mortal Kombat
EXPLOSION: Loud boom sound
SUICIDE: Tourettes guy "Aw Shit!" voice sound
Tourette: Tourettes guy "Shit!" voice sound

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[NEW BETA IS HERE!]
http://www.mediafire.com/?19xldsxie9kh5ud

Hey all, the new beta is finally ready to be put on display! There are now 36 maps present - Virtually none of them are at 100% completion, but they've come quite a way from the first beta!

durian is pulling out of the project, although hopefully he'll allow me to use his "entrymake/ big donut/ hellfighter" maps - It would be a shame to lose them, they're 3 of my favorites in this pack :)

Most texture issues are resolved, although there are more to be dealt with. Map07, Map10, Map28, Map31 have some fairly serious issues, In any port but Zandronum you'll get a ton of tutti-frutti so that's a pretty big hump we still need to cross, but in the end these are fairly easy to fix problems.

Map13, Map16, Map18, Map21 have more minor texturing issues, one or two misplaced FLATS on a wall or missing textures, no biggie. And for some reason which I simply cant understand, Map28 gets no sound at all in Odamex. What the heck? It uses a MIDI, after all.

A few of these babies are in need of some detials too, and that's coming from a "90's Doom" enthusiast. This will be saved for later, after elimintaions are complete. No need spending time detailing something that will end up in the "U" folder, after all.

Overall though, I'm really pleased with the progress. Most mappers know what they have to do at this point, or will after playing through this Beta. Enough of my rambling - Download it and check out the new stuff!

(Also, a credits txt has been included this time!)

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Holy tits! I like this version. When I have enough free time, I will do a review of each of them. I noticed one of the big maps was separated into two levels (At least I think it was) which was a good idea in my opinion. For my level 32 map Horto bellatorem, my only complaint is that the red sky is gone :/ I think the dark ceiling that replaced the sky texture makes level feel smaller for some reason. I would recommend replacing it back to the red sky patch.

I did like some of the slopes that was used in certain levels. The crematorium level is much better because it allows the players to explore more without getting stuck in one sector.

Just wondering, did you get a chance to check out the sounds wad file I posted?

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doomguy93 said:

I think the dark ceiling that replaced the sky texture makes level feel smaller for some reason. I would recommend replacing it back to the red sky patch.

Whoops.. That was purely by accident! I copied the info for "The Grand Void" when expanding the mapinfo lump, and I must have forgot to change the sky back to it's original texture.

doomguy93 said:

Just wondering, did you get a chance to check out the sounds wad file I posted?

I did indeed! I'm going to include a separate sounds/misc. resources file alongside the set, so it will all be totally optional, but still availible for those of us who want them.

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You can always fix it in the next beta, so no worries man lol.

These levels have come a really long way since the first release. Oh and I like the new textures with "DMR" on it. Totally awesome idea dude. I approve!

I'm going to see if I can find more sounds that you could use. I'll send them to you sometime soon.

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1 more error that I spotted in map 32, in the sector where there are 3 hanging corpses, the blood fall texture doesn't seem to move for some reason. Is there anyway it can be fixed? I'm sorry if I am sounding like a pest lol

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Ha, my maps are at 15 and 30.

I don't know all the details to do it, but I want to supply my own skyboxes for my levels because:
1) Enzo 01, as you've named it, was made with a daytime sky in mind and IMO looks terrible with the deep blue nighttime sky; if I made it with a nighttime sky in mind, I would not have made the outdoor areas the maximum brightness level... well, maybe I would have, but I did say I'd like a daytime sky. By the way, call this one Outpost 17 because fuck it (actually because of music I may possibly provide for it *and* because fuck it).
2) Enzo 02, as you've named it, which I said I wanted to call "Soul Recycler (again because fuck it, but there was significantly less fuck it), was also made with a daytime sky in mind, and I'm glad that there is one! However, I don't really like that strong orange color.

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What happened to the PowerStation map I made? I know it may not make the final cut (the layout is quite boring - this could be improved) but it doesn't appear to be in the beta at all. Also, similar problem to Enzo, SkullCrusher was supplied with a red sky, yet the default blue night sky is used. That's all, thanks.

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Why was the stone4 texture suddenly switched? It kind of messes the visuals of my map up.

Also, player1 starts would be appreciated, though this suggestion seems to have been ignored the last three times I asked...

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TheMionicDonut said:

why are the ashwalls animating?!??

*checks ANIMDEFS lump* ...What the heck, I have no idea. Any help on this one would be great.

The reason I didn't want too many custom textures is for this reason exactly - (almost) All the maps that use them have provided me with a full texture resource thats several megs in size, and the map itself only uses like 15 of the 50 or so that are provided, so I have to go through patch-by-patch and see what is used, and what isn't used - It's INSANELY tedious to say the least, at thats why I spent several hours just to compile the last beta. All of this will be worked out, before release every nook and cranny of every map will be checked in all 3 source ports just to ensure none of this leftover texture-error mess sticks around.

Enzo03 said:

..but I did say I'd like a daytime sky. By the way, call this one Outpost 17 because fuck it (actually because of music I may possibly provide for it *and* because fuck it).
2) Enzo 02, as you've named it, which I said I wanted to call "Soul Recycler (again because fuck it, but there was significantly less fuck it), was also made with a daytime sky in mind, and I'm glad that there is one! However, I don't really like that strong orange color.

Ahh, the skies are all wrong, I didn't catch this before DG93 pointed it out on his map, now I'm seeing it all over the place. The map names and sky textures will all be fixed up soon :)

Captain Toenail said:

What happened to the PowerStation map I made?... SkullCrusher was supplied with a red sky, yet the default blue night sky is used. That's all, thanks.

Again, the skies will be fixed. The PowerStation map is actually very cool, it wasn't included by pure oversight. (There's a lot of crap to track down with a big project like this!)

TheMionicDonut said:

Why was the stone4 texture suddenly switched? It kind of messes the visuals of my map up.

Also, player1 starts would be appreciated, though this suggestion seems to have been ignored the last three times I asked...

Some people are giving me gigantic resource files along with their maps, if they use custom textures.. It's pretty hard to tell what's needed and what isn't when looking at the list in XWE - This will be fixed. That's not to mention a few people have interchanged their FLATS and PATCHES, which I specifically asked people not to do *facepalm* Only Zandronum has support for this feature. Not a big deal, it just eats up time like crazy to re-do that stuff.

As far as player starts, I'll go through and add them manually if need be - I haven't fixed quite a few of the errors in my map still. I think it's a good idea to wait until eliminations to fix up maps that much, but adding player starts will be easy. It's not an ignored request, but i'll need free time to go through the maps and work out which have got them and which haven't. Same goes for exits.

After all, this is still just a beta version. Probably the most difficult thing about this is the textures. It would have taken roughly a metric ton of work off my back if people only provided the bare minimum for what they're actually using, and provided them in a way where they can run in all 3 ports, not just Zandronum. :P (I'm happy to say, this has only been an issue for a few submissions.)

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Welp. Looks like my DM map will be ranked out due to missing textures. I did know I can't use flats as wall textures.

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