Doom 64 for Doom II

Thanks Death Egg for the E1 approval, that's one less thing to sort out. Now E2 and E3 need slight arrangements to accommodate Hardcore, Playground, and two of the secret levels. It really depends on however Hardcore and Playground are done though.

Jimi said:

Ok, here's Hectic... http://koti.mbnet.fi/jeejeeje/doom/jimi_hectic_v001.wad

Should be Chocolate compatible. It uses just Doom II textures. The extended areas are still there, so beware.. Rewards for completing the level is backpack, plasmagun, bfg, some cells and megasphere.

Oh, and btw.. there's 4 barrels missing from the staging area. Also the switches insetted to the walls were really high.


Did you keep the dual exit thing? After thinking about it, Hectic might be better off remaining as Map 32. I'd probably make the reward a full inventory for what you have to endure.

Some of the barrels in Staging Area were removed as they had no purpose without the Hectic secret exit

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Welp, I finished up some skies. Hopefully the day's worth of work was worth it :P. I zipped up the skies, the psd files, the scraps, and a test map, which you can grabify below:

http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/mekastuff/wads/D64D2/D64D2-skies-v1.zip

Here are some previews (256 tall versions):






I redid the spacey sky first, which I think came out pretty good looking. There's not much changed from the previous version other than some new, non-repeating mountains and an update on the blue wispy stuff. In hindsight, after studying the D64 source material, I think the blue stuff in the sky is actually supposed to be some sort of outer space gas or something.

After that, I did three more skies - a brown sky/red mountain, blue sky/grey-green~ish mountain, and a red sky/brown mountain. This somewhat follows what's in Doom 64 up to the red/green fire skies in the latter half of the game.

These are about as close as I could imagine what the skies might look like if they were in Doom 2 (using my own methods and styles, obviously). A big obstacle to overcome is the palette, which can't really emulate the Doom 64 moody skies that well at all. The blues, for example, are super saturated and give an almost cartoonish vibe to things that use it. So I had to improvise for the purple~ish sky you see in maps like Terror Core, and just go full blue. The plus to this is that it gives off a Doom 2 style vibe, which I suppose is the entire point to this project. Also, I thought it might be appreciated if the clouds in each of the skies was different, unlike what you see in Doom 64 (where the same texture is used, but just colored differently).

I'm pretty sure improvements can be made to these skies. Mostly I was starting to get worn out working on them, but I tried to make them as clean as possible. The mountains in the red and blue cloudy skies really need cleaning up. In the instance of the blue sky, I tried to make the mountains somewhat darker than the others, but it ended up cutting out lots of the details.

I dunno though, I tend to be my own harshest critic. Let me know what you guys think :)

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Hot damn, those are pretty sexy. The only one that that really looks like it could use a bit more work is the second one, the mountains don't seem to blend into the sky as well as the others to me.

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Yea, I agree. I think the sky is too bright (and the actual cloud texture is sub-par too). This is the sky I was attempting to emulate. I think if I can make a darker brown sky, it'll mesh with the mountains in the foreground a bit better.

And thanks, glad you like them :). Hopefully they will be useful. I don't know when I'll be able to mess with them again, but anyone is welcome to work on them. Just let me know ahead of time so I don't end up working on a sky at the same time as someone else.

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Number 2 and 4 are, in my eyes, absolutely perfect for E2 and E3 respectively, great work there!

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I remember there also being a simple star sky without any mountains.

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Yea, there was. For that, the starry sky background can be grabbed from the psd file of the first sky (and then the different skies can be defined in MAPINFO/EMAPINFO for their respective ports). There are also some maps which don't use a mountain foreground and just clouds (Terror Core comes to mind).

Thanks Ragnor, I'm glad you like them! I tried my best to get the general ideas emulated from the source material. The Doom palette doesn't have very many dark colors, so it is difficult to match the same shades seen in the Doom 64 skies. I think this is somewhat apparent in the brown and red skies. But like I said before, this is sort of a good thing since it gives them more of a Doom II vibe I think :)

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If the first one was made white/grey instead of blue, you'd have my ideal three skies (already mentioned my reasoning for this). Sky 2 and 4 together give a sense of hell intensifying past level 20.

Just gotta see these skies ingame in a few ports now.

EDIT: I do like Sky 3 btw, but it reminds me too much of the Herian series. Blue is also actually my favourite colour, so normally 1 and 3 would be my favourites...

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Very nice project here!

I always asked me the look of D64 maps with doom classic textures.

Luck with the project!

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Loving sky number 3. It fits the Doom 64 style and looks different enough from most other skies to add it's own flavour. Looks pretty foreboding too.

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Would appreciate feedback on MAP09 (loads as MAP07)

Screenshot

WAD

Having trouble using the dehacked wad in Chocolate Doom. Tried -merge, but that just creates imps with chainguns. Using -file causes a R_DrawSpriteRange error.

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Ragnor said:

Did you keep the dual exit thing? After thinking about it, Hectic might be better off remaining as Map 32. I'd probably make the reward a full inventory for what you have to endure.

Yes, there's the easy exit available without keys. Yea, I could add some more reward stuff. Player can also get all the trap items in the start room... at the moment the invulnerability sphere can be used to get the blue armor, but that's not how player should get it, maybe I'll move it a bit, or delete if it makes the "dart room" too easy?

Oh, and are the weapons going to be as fast/slow as in Doom64?

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Ragnor said:

If the first one was made white/grey instead of blue, you'd have my ideal three skies (already mentioned my reasoning for this). Sky 2 and 4 together give a sense of hell intensifying past level 20.


Oh that reminds me, there are uncolored grey mountains in the psd file for the first sky. I personally kind of like the blue mountains since it gives off that space blue feel that the original sky does. Just more cartoony in this instance because of how bright the blues are. Some dark grey mountains might look pretty good as well though.

ComicMischief said:

I'd love to steal sky2 with mountains4 for my own use. ;)

Sure, feel free! Just know that I will probably clean them up some eventually.

Thanks again guys :)

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Mechadon said:

Sure, feel free! Just know that I will probably clean them up some eventually.


Hahahah, cheers. Better than my placeholder sky by a mile. Will credit you when my WAD is finished. :)

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Scet said:

Having trouble using the dehacked wad in Chocolate Doom. Tried -merge, but that just creates imps with chainguns. Using -file causes a R_DrawSpriteRange error.


You don't -merge deh patches. You -deh them. Also Choco doesn't load embedded dehacked stuff; so if it's a dehacked wad? Get the dehacked out of the wad.

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I was worried for a second there. X-D Yeah, you have to extract the DeHackEd patch with SLADE3 and run them like this:

-merge (name of map).wad (if your map uses new resources, otherwise it's just -file)
-merge d64deh.wad
-deh (name of DeHackEd patch).deh

I probably should have mentioned that. *Sheepish grin*

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Gez said:

Get the dehacked out of the wad.


Thanks, it works if the DEHACKED lump is exported and than loaded with -deh. Obsidians wad still has to be loaded with -merge for anyone else testing with Chocolate Doom.

Edit: God damn it, ninjaed by Obsidian.

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Jimi said:

Yes, there's the easy exit available without keys. Yea, I could add some more reward stuff. Player can also get all the trap items in the start room... at the moment the invulnerability sphere can be used to get the blue armor, but that's not how player should get it, maybe I'll move it a bit, or delete if it makes the "dart room" too easy?

Oh, and are the weapons going to be as fast/slow as in Doom64?


Shouldn't the blue armour be a telefrag trap? ie Last Call. It was the one item in the original that you could never get. I haven't actually played your Hectic mind you.

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The weapons will be unmodified. I've also started erring on the side of maybe not using the Nightmare Imp after all, since a lot of people in this topic, including a mapper or two, have seemed to not want it to be included. (I personally liked the idea, but popular vote is against it.) I still think the Mother Demon should be used as the final boss, though.

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Ragnor said:

Shouldn't the blue armour be a telefrag trap? ie Last Call. It was the one item in the original that you could never get.


Guess again!

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Death Egg said:

I've also started erring on the side of maybe not using the Nightmare Imp after all


:(

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I'm not sure what was replaced in the dehacked (haven't looked at it yet), but will the SS Nazi monsters be used at all? It seems like they wouldn't really fit with the project (unless someone does some sort of crazy Doom 64~ish Wolfen-Frankenstein map :P). If they haven't already been used, I'd just replace the SS Nazis with the Nightmare Imp. I would very much like to see the Motherdemon included as well.

I like the idea of seeing the extra Doom II monsters (Rev, Archvile, etc) in this project as well. It probably isn't very appropriate to just copy/paste Doom 64 into Doom II, but rather blend the two together using mostly Doom II resources. I think there should be enough room to do the Nightmare Imp and Motherdemon if you get rid of the SS Nazi/IoS. If so, instead of sacrificing the bulk of the Doom II exclusive monsters, you could probably keep them and get a new Imp and new boss squeezed in.

This is what I was trying to get at a few posts back. The specifics of the project really need to be hammered down before any major mapping is started. Otherwise it can turn into a clusterfuck of trying to work in features or take out features in maps later on down the line.

*edit*

Ok, so it looks like the Nazi and the IoS or still intact in the latest version of the dehacked, correct? So depending on what the plan is for those monsters, I think it might not be bad idea to replace them. That way the Rev and Archie can be brought back (which I think are probably going to be more useful to mappers in the long run).

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BaronOfStuff said:


Oh please, you cheated and abused the script delay :p I've done that myself, you cant exit the level the true way while getting that armour. Being able to use the weak exit while scripts are messed up is new to me though.

Secondly, about the Dehacked work, I'll repeat myself and say that there should be two versions of the project. Obsidian's put a lot of hard work into making that, only to have people come in and bitch about Doom 64 monsters in a Doom 64 project. Surely the base levels can be done for version 1, then edited for version 2 which uses Obsidian's work for a blended level set with Doom 2 architecture and textures and Doom 64's monster cast?

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I think I'll go with that idea, Ragnor, because I really would like to see Obsidians Dehacked work put to good use. Of course this would require the mappers for maps involving the Nightmare Imp (Which is quite a few of the Doom 64 maps) to make two separate versions, or let other mappers make a second version, with one being much closer/identical to the originals monster layout. That way both crowds can be pleased.

This also means the two versions will probably have to have two completely different final battles, with the Doom II-only being another Icon battle. That'd be cool too.

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I don't want to sound like a downer, but I think doing two separate~ish projects doesn't sound like a great idea to me. It's just more work for a negligible difference between two concepts. There are a ton of vanilla-only projects out there already, and I think doing something a bit different here would be interesting. I don't want to see Obsidian's work wasted either, and I think with some tweaks both parties can be pleased (replace the SS Nazi and the IoS, basically).

But of course, that's just my opinion :)

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Have the Nightmare Imp just use the fuzzy effect with Imp sprites, and it can replace the useless Dead Lost Soul; Pcorf did something similar to create spectral Hellknights (having them use the Baron Of Hell frames) in one of the Death Tormention WADs. Probably not the most visually impressive solution, but nothing important is lost and everyone gets a shiny (well, blurry) new monster to blast the fuck out of too.

The Mother Demon... well this is where it might (or will) fall apart. Personally I'm not really fond of replacing fully-functional monsters, even if they are novelty easter eggs such as the Wolfenstein SS -- someone might find an excuse to use 'em after all! Isn't there an identical decoration object (one of the stump things) that this can use the thing number of? Of course this still leaves the issue of 'what sprites are we supposed to use', but blah. I just think that this project should be expanding on content where possible, not cutting stuff up and replacing existing things (or at least things that can serve a purpose, unlike that piece of shit Dead Lost Soul).

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