Favillesco episode 2: Tragedy over Europa released!

Mr. Chris said:

I died at least 10 times before I said fuck it and cheated to get the BFG so I didn't drag the video out more than 15 minutes trying to beat it. The problem mainly is because in BD the Cyber's projectiles are faster and shoots 6 instead of 3 in a fast succession, not to mention the projectiles are 50% faster. >.<


Haha, I don't blame you, that level with fast monsters would be impossible, while playing at normal speed what I do is to inmobilize one of the cyberdemons with the plasma gun while I keep running around the arena, if you stop moving you're dead XD.

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What is with the negative vibe in here? Similar levels and easy secrets notwithstanding, I've just played through both the Favillesco episodes and they're some of the best UD episode replacements I've ever seen. There's more craftsmanship and cleverness in just one of these things than most 32-level Doom 2 megawads. I eagerly await the final two.

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I liked it apart from E2M7 and E2M8. But like, the Cyberdemon fight is really bad, I thought. Although would it help to clearly mark where the teleport spots are, at least? You know, to make it a tiny bit less reliant on luck?

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Gifty said:

What is with the negative vibe in here? Similar levels and easy secrets notwithstanding, I've just played through both the Favillesco episodes and they're some of the best UD episode replacements I've ever seen. There's more craftsmanship and cleverness in just one of these things than most 32-level Doom 2 megawads. I eagerly await the final two.

Thanks Gifty, anyway I think that most of the criticism helps the mapper to improve his work, about the gameplay in theese episodes I have to say I had 2 major constrains, one was the fidelity to the originals, that means that I cannot abuse with teleport traps and fast closing doors everywhere, the other constrain is due to my own layout design, it is difficult to place the enemies since I put too much windows and on the other hand non linearity means that you can meet the enemies form both sides sometimes, making difficult to set a threatening position for them without falling back into building traps in a way almost absent in the doom1 iwad. BTW I'm working in something different right now, I hope you'll see the results soon!

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What if you halved the endboss count?

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Mr. Chris said:

What if you halved the endboss count?

Sure, that would be the "ideal" solution, I guess that will be seen in the four episode pack release as well as some gameplay refinements.
I'm following a french thread of favillesco and they complain about e2m1 because you have to play half of the level only with your pistol, it is hard to make the mapset of everyone's dreams in the same wad hehe.

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nicolas monti said:

I'm following a french thread of favillesco and they complain about e2m1 because you have to play half of the level only with your pistol


Don't change this. It's great. Pistol doesn't get enough play as it is; once the player acquires any other weapon it's usually never used again. Not ever. Not even as a last wave of defense, because chaingun.

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Why do you think the pistol doesn't get enough use? Because it's a pile of shit that needs to be replaced ASAP by better weaponry.

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Why not start with the fist, then? Why even include it in the game?

All I'm saying is, it's not exactly in the interests of good balance to have a tool available to the player that is almost-instantly rendered obsolete.

Also, it's great for picking off the human enemies at range due to the first shot being spot-on accurate. Shame the chaingun does exactly this too.

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Jayextee said:

All I'm saying is, it's not exactly in the interests of good balance to have a tool available to the player that is almost-instantly rendered obsolete.


This is literally Doom's balance. The pistol is garbage to give you an incentive to find something more capable. The only time you're forced to use it in the IWADs is E1M1 if you're on HMP or lower (wherein there's like 6 dudes to shoot total) and for a single room on E3M1. E2M1/E4M1/Plutonia have shotguns readily available, TNT has a berserk, and Doom 2 has a chainsaw. The pistol is punishment for dying and forgetting to save.

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ClonedPickle said:

The pistol is punishment for dying and forgetting to save.


Or for OCD players to shoot imps that have survived a shotgun shell. :p

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Forcing the player to pistol half a map should be a capital crime.

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Tarnsman said:

Forcing the player to pistol half a map should be a capital crime.

wait! maybe 49 % of the map.. and you have your fists too XD

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I had no issue using the rifle in E2M1, also if you're doing E3 and E4, consider doing fewer homages to the original id level set.

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So I played this wad for 4 seconds and everyones complaints of E2M1 were rendered obsolete, yeah I found a chainsaw in 4 seconds :P
Yes it's a secret but it's the most obvious secret I've ever seen.

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Seele00TextOnly said:

the what?


The rifle. It's Brutal Doom's replacement for the pistol, and quite a good weapon.

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Jayextee said:

The rifle. It's Brutal Doom's replacement for the pistol, and quite a good weapon.

I fail to see what a gameplay mod has to do with a discussion of the actual weapons in the actual game, and the use thereof in a mapset that from what I understand is not intended to be played with said gameplay mod alone.

So, what does that have to do with anything. I guess I'm even more confused now. :/

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Mr. Chris said:

I had no issue using the rifle in E2M1

There's a problem though. The rifle (from Brutal Doom, of course) is made to be significantly more powerful than Doom's pistol so that it can be on par with the other weapons. This is the case with most gameplay mods' pistol replacement.
Doom's pistol, on the other hand, is slow, inaccurate (relatively), and weak. It is easily obsoleted, even by the chainsaw.

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Brb making a mapset for vanilla doom and then balancing it around a Zdoom weapon and gameplay mod.

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Seele00TextOnly said:

I fail to see what a gameplay mod has to do with a discussion of the actual weapons in the actual game, and the use thereof in a mapset that from what I understand is not intended to be played with said gameplay mod alone.

So, what does that have to do with anything. I guess I'm even more confused now. :/


Uhh can you not read the title? It totally says Brutal Favillesco episode 2 up there. Jeez. Maybe you shouldn't be posting on the Brutal Doomworld Forums!!

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Mr. Chris said:

I had no issue using the rifle in E2M1, also if you're doing E3 and E4, consider doing fewer homages to the original id level set.

About E3 and E4 I'm not planning to make any homage because I'm not interested in any structure in particular from those episodes, E3 will have crazy psychedelic texturing ala pandemonium or house of pain and E4 will be themed strickly on hell with structures like ancient and middle ages buildings, however I think those episodes will come after my new 32 level doom megawad.

EDIT: about the pistol struggle, I wanted to make the player having to pistol some moments at least (That seems to be the Jayextee ultimate passion!), knowing it would'nt be used anymore after picking another weapon, in favillesco E2M1 you have to only have to fight zombiemen, imps and some lost souls in that conditions , so I think is not a thing to whine about ;)

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nicolas monti said:

EDIT: about the pistol struggle, I wanted to make the player having to pistol some moments at least (That seems to be the Jayextee ultimate passion!), knowing it would'nt be used anymore after picking another weapon, in favillesco E2M1 you have to only have to fight zombiemen, imps and some lost souls in that conditions , so I think is not a thing to whine about ;)


See, I like this. It's not my 'ultimate passion', but it is a larger part of something I care a lot about - game balance.

The way I see it, a good level designer will at least consider the various elements that make up the game, for inclusion. They have their roles, of course, though the pistol; famously; becomes redundant in seconds in all the main IWADs. In which case, why is it even included in the game? It doesn't even function as an emergency side-arm due to sharing ammo with the much-superior chaingun.

Half of one map with the pistol isn't really much to play.

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Jayextee said:

See, I like this. It's not my 'ultimate passion', but it is a larger part of something I care a lot about - game balance.

The way I see it, a good level designer will at least consider the various elements that make up the game, for inclusion. They have their roles, of course, though the pistol; famously; becomes redundant in seconds in all the main IWADs. In which case, why is it even included in the game? It doesn't even function as an emergency side-arm due to sharing ammo with the much-superior chaingun.

Half of one map with the pistol isn't really much to play.

Right, as I said, I wanted the pistol to be used since it is another element available in the game (btw it works great against zombiemen and decently against imps), and you'll see something like that in my new mwgawad. About your "ultimate passion" I was joking, don't take it as an offense!

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The issue with e2m8 is that no matter how skilled you are, you have to rely heavily on luck. There was a couple runs where I could have beaten it only to have a cyberdemon teleport right in front of me. Needless to say it's very frustrating.

EDIT: After watching your video, in a way, you proved my point. I did basically what you did, but more than once I had cyberdemons teleport directly in front of me. You were lucky.

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